Tail Feathers

[enid]

Hi, everyone.

Thank you again for all of your insight.

Daisy is continuing to recover. He is so alert and now he is doing things that make me think that he is happy. For example, when I speak to him softly, he wiggles his wing up and down. And he looks around at other birds. He often flaps when we go on walks or in the middle of the night when we're supposed to be asleep.

However, I am so concerned about his lack of ability to stand up. I don't think that he is making any progress in that regard, even though he is much livelier these days. And I am partly to blame! I take him to work with me every day so that I can keep him company, give him water and bird seed (he's not too good at eating on his own), and shift his position throughout the day. But I can't get away with taking breaks to exercise his legs, except at lunchtime. (Side note: I am working late tonight and he is sitting on a pile of statutes and legal cases. It's so cute.) I am afraid that his legs might be getting weaker and weaker. In fact, they feel weaker and he doesn't press back much when I do the exercises Phil and my vet suggested. Sometimes I lightly rub my fingers over his legs. I hope that feels nice to him.

I don't know what to do! I am so scared about the future. I am committed to keeping him even if he never walks again. I am so attached to him and I miss him when we're apart! But I don't think that I can bring him to work with me forever. Maybe for the next few months, but not the next few years.

Does anybody have a magic wand they can wave over him to help him stand up again?!

Oh, I should clarify. His vet thinks that the reason that he can't stand up is because he has neurological problems as a result of a car accident. He isn't paralyzed. He kicks when he's dreaming and other times. He just can't seem to remember how to stand. She thinks there's a 50-50 chance that he could stand again.

I feel so bad for him because he wants to fly. He's tried so many times to take off when we go on our daily walks. Sometimes, I put him on a soft blanket on the floor and he tries to pull himself around with his wing and a beak. But he only makes it about 12 inches before tiring himself out and he usually quits in an awkward position. It's heartbreaking.

I have taken the suggestion to give him calcium. And I gave him a little arnica montana too.

Really, I am holding my breath for next September when I will move out of the apartment I share with two pigeon-hating roommates and into an apartment by myself where I can rescue another pigeon so at least Daisy will have company if I leave him at home while I'm at work.

Sigh. Does anyone have miracle stories about a pigeon they thought would never walk again and then, boom, one day he or she does?

xo, enid

[pdpbison]

Hi enid,



Well, if this little Pigeopn has not won these room-mates over, nothing would..! Fooey on them indeed.


Have you done the excercises with him where, on the bed, you hold him in your palm, low, and also hold his Tail ( does he have enough of a Tail to hold yet ?) and let him Wing Flap?

Which leads, to just holding his tail, and having him mock standing, with or without a palm under him, so the flapping elevates him enough to use his Legs maybe...as long as he keeps flapping to take most of the weight off?


This lets them get good Wing excercise, and, to work or use weak Legs.

One of mine awhile back could not stand at all, but after we hd been doing these wing Flap excercises where he could sort-of-use his legs while flapping, he soon learned to do it on his own, and would be see flapping-walking cross the floor to where-ever he wanted to be. Once he would stop flapping, he'd lay there till the next occasion.



Glad to hear he is putting on some weight...and of course, the irony, is that his weak Legs have not caught up to it...but, they might, I would not give up...and this can take months sometimes before things are right for it to happen...or start to happen enough to be worth mentioning.


I think trying some 'Prednisone' might be worthwhile, ask your Vet about it...you never know, it might help.


All the general excercise he or you can stand, too...will be good.


A suppliment having all the "B" Vitamines, ( or just powdered Brewer's Yeast - any Health Food Store ), added to his Seeds with a glistening of Olive Oil) in portions suited of course to his weight, would be good...



I have one presently who was a bad Car wack, and it is six weeks or seven since I got him in here and he is just this week starting to stand somewhat in short periods...some take longer of course.


Best wishes!


Phil
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[TAWhatley]

Originally Posted by enid

Sigh. Does anyone have miracle stories about a pigeon they thought would never walk again and then, boom, one day he or she does?

xo, enid

I have one that came from my rehabber friend. It was definitely hit by a car. It took about 4 weeks for it to be able to start standing and walking. I got it around the middle of the month, and it was not standing at that point. My rehabber friend had already had the bird for about two weeks before I got it. About a week after coming here, it started standing and slowly improved. It seems to be back to 100% now.

Hopefully your Daisy will make a good recovery too.

Terry

[feralpigeon]

Originally Posted by enid

Hi, all.

Thank you for your suggestion to sand down Daisy's beak! I did it and he is having a much easier time eating seeds now.

As far as calcium goes, I gave him half of a Tums over the course of two days but it didn't help. I was afraid of giving him too much. How much do you suggest? And where do I buy liquid calcium?

Hi Enid,

Seeing as your friend will most likely be an indoor bird, Cal Sure would be a good
choice for you. It has D3 which indoor birds require for nutritional synthesis and has magnesiun as well for better calcium absorption. I believe that Jedd's carries this product. Here's a link to the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/

And specifically a link to the Pigeon Supply Houses therein:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

Hope this helps...

fp

[pdpbison]

Hi enid,


"Winsmore" has recieved vrious fevorable mentions in our threads...I hve been mening to send off for some myself -


http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-vitamins.html


( Three Quarters of the way down the page )


It is not expensive, and a packet would last most of us long time I am sure...



Phil
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[pdpbison]

Hi enid,


I forgot to ask...


What are the poops looking like? color, size, number in 24 hours, consistancy?

Does he manage alright being able to poop and not get himself soiled?


Phil
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[feralpigeon]

Enid, how long was your rescue on Baytril and have you ever treated the
bird for Trichomonas?

Maggie, regarding Albon, it it thought to stay in the bloodstream longer than
the other sulpha meds and therefore considered to be a good choice especially
w/bad infestations of coccidia.

fp

[fallenweeble]

forgive me if this was already brought up but i think firstimer mentioned to me once something about a strand where a bird with splay leg was rigged up in a sling sort of mechanism to try to encourage the bird to stand in the correct position. i'm wondering if this sort of arrangement might benefit this little guy? (a sling where the legs are allowed to dangle/touch the ground in order to encourage use but so that the bird's weight is supported by the sling.
does anyone remember a post like this and would it be something to consider in this bird's situation?
okay, i'm probably just NUTS! tee hee.
AND what a wonderful rescuer!!! - it sounds like the universe sent this bird to the right person for sure
awesome!
-weeble

[pdpbison]

Hi weeble,



Yes indeed...

Slings are good for instances of both Legs being broken and splinted, so they can dangle...

slings are good for when both Legs are badly strained or sprained, so they can dangle and have no weight on them, letting the Bird eat, drink and poop with the Sling arranged so it does not interfere with these activities.

Sometimes Slings are good for a single, seriously injured/broken Leg, similarly, so it can dangle.


Paralized Legs or any other occasion...some Birds, and some Slings, seem to get along alright, but still take frequent inspection and checking and sometimes the Bird gets wiggley or bored and works themselves of it...or, the more comfortable the Sling can be made to be as far as the Bird is experiencing it, the more likely the Bird will oblige it.

This is not always easy to manage.


So, in answer to your question then, you bet, Slings are a very good thing sometimes, or, whenever one wishes to ensure the Bird's Legs are going to be allowed to rest merely, and to have no weight or pressures on them, nor be obliged to be tucked in or bent or anything but to dangle.


Whether this is best for those Legs, depends on the opinion or evaluation as for whether or when those Legs would be better excercised and constructively stressed in some kind of use or in being available for use...and or at what phase of a convelesence or recovery excercise should begin.


I have had Sling Birds who I took out of the Sling a few times-a-day, for them to Wing Flap as I held them in one way or another, andfor them to get some excercise of their Wings, and, excercise of their Legs too sometimes, depending...sometimes playing 'Airplane' with them, where I held them and carried them around at arm's length as we pretended to fly with me making Airplane sound effects, turning thewm and banking and so on ( gently of course, ) and them getting their Wings into it as they pleased, and they liked that, so we did it that way.


Phil
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[enid]

Hi, everyone.

Thank you again for all of your help! I can't tell you how much it means to me. I'd be lost without you.

I made a sling for him upon my vet's recommendation about four weeks ago. The vet recommended that I put him in the sling some of the time and take him out some of the time. Luckily, I can bring him to work and so I'm able to move him to a new position when he gets wiggly.

He's never been treated for trich. Would that show up in the fecal sample? two weeks after he was treated for worms and coccidia, his vet did a fecal test and she said that it was fine.

He was on Baytril for seven days.

His droppings look normal. Green or brown depending on whether he's been eating puppy chow or seeds. There's some white and they're moist and not runny (they had been runny several weeks ago). Sometimes, they are odorless and sometimes they have a bad smell. I know that's a bad sign, but I gave the vet one of his smelly ones to test and nothing showed up in the fecal test. (His vet is Dr. Pesek, and she's good with pigeons.) I always forget to count how many in a day, but it seems like every other hour or hour and a half, and they usually come two at a time. So that's a little over 20.

He occasionally soils himself. Because he's at work with me, I frequently clean out his box, but I can't always catch it right away and sometimes he'll get droppings in his feathers. I rinse his legs and vent feathers every night.

Phil, thank you for the advice about the helicopter flying lessons. Sometimes, he would just start flapping spontanoeously when I took him on his daily walk, but last night we made a concerted effort to "work out." I held him about a foot over a blanket on the floor and he flapped and rested and flapped and rested. It was so adorable! He was shaking his head in a funny way -- I'm not sure what it meant, but maybe he was just concentrating so hard. He has no tail feathers yet, so I can't do it exactly the way you've described, but we're working on it.

(Twice last week, he flapped so hard spontaneously that I lost my grip and he fell about three and a half feet. The first time, I was terrified that he'd hurt himself. But he was ecstatic and he seemed to want to do it again! Two days later, he did it on one of our walks and flipped over onto the grass.)

Thanks, everyone, for your other recommendations! I'll give them a whirl.

xo, enid

[enid]

Hi, all.

Daisy started having frequent seizures today -- about one every twenty to ninety minutes. Every time he wakes up, poops or eats seeds.

Before today, his seizures came about two - five times a day.

His vet isn't available until Friday.

I've been sprinkling calcium powder on his Puppy Chow for the past week. He's in the sun at least an hour a day and sits near the window for vitamin D.

I can go to the pigeon supply store on Tuesday to buy things. Any suggestions?

[Reti]

Sorry to hear he is having seizures so frecvently.
I would try to hold of the daily calcium as hypercalcemia can also cause seizures. Give it only three times a week. Keep him calm, avoid any stress and keep him well hydrated.
What medications is he on now?

Reti

[pdpbison]

Hi enid,


Vitamine D wise...it has to be direct Sunshine, if it is filtered through Glass, it is no good in so far as being useful for Vitamine D production.


Would you describe the siezures? How so? How long they last?



Are these 'wangley-neck' movements when he gets stimulated/excited from something? Or, more global?



Phil
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[enid]

Hi, all.

OK, I will stop with the daily calcium.

Daisy isn't on any medications now. At various times during the last eight weeks, he had been on Albion, Baytril, Nystatin, and a dewormer that the vet administered in the office (so I don't know what it is). Six weeks ago he was on carbo vegetablis and last week I gave him a few arnica montana pellets, but not many because I was worried that they could make things worse.

The character of the seizures changed over the last few hours. Yesterday and in the past, they were full body seizures where he would uncontrollably flap his wings and twist his neck and body. If he was on the blanket on the floor, his whole body would jerk around. I don't know how long they lasted -- maybe half a minute. If I picked him up, he would stop within a few seconds. If the seizure came while I was holding him, it wouldn't last as long, but it was still a full body seizure. Last night, at 3:00 am, I held him for a full hour while he seized over and over again.

I don't know what set the seizures off -- sometimes being fed or waking up or defecating, but sometimes there doesn't seem to be any reason.

For the last four hours, they have been very short seizures of the wrangley neck type. I just fed him and his neck twisted four or five times in just a few minutes of time. His body didn't twist much and he did not flap his wings. Luckily, he hasn't had any full body seizures all morning.

When you suggest keeping him well hydrated, do you think I should use the dropper to give him water? I offer tepid water to him every two hours in the day, but he doesn't always want it. Other times, he dunks his whole head in like he's dying of thirst.

How many hours of direct sunlight should I give him? He gets at least an hour a day now.

[pdpbison]

Hi enid,



An hour-a-day of direct sunshine sounds really good to me...


If he drinks a few times a day on his own, with you steadying him and his Head and Beak as need be, he should be hydrated well enough...I would not do any Eye-Dropper things with Liquids for him, and, trying to can be very dangerous, especially in Pigeons who are a little off in their co-ordinations.


I did not know that these siezures had been going on.

I have several PMV-survivor Pigeons presently, and while they have constant wangley necks, it seems to be limited just to that, and there is nothing with these which I would regard as siezures...so, I myself do not have any experience with siezures as such.


One of myh PMV or PPMV Pigeons, the worst afflicted of them, is constantly in one or another pose of extreme neck twist, so his head is under his chest and upside down to boot...he only walks backwards, but he has learned where everything is, has his various favorite hang-outs or hiding places, and, if I have not fed him ( held his head and Beak in a normal pose in a little Seed Bowl on my lap ) he will seek me out and be sort of 'growling' to vocalize his interest. He is very vocal when feeding also.

Once fed and watered, he likes to settle into a nap on my lap, where he is quiet and restful for a while, then at some point he becomes a fuss-budget and I have to set him down, usually, to poop, but then he wants to wander off to one of his hang-outs anyway.


Too, if I can not figure out where he is, he will start growling and twirling if I call him and that helps me locate him, as well eventually he will come scooting out backwards and going this way and that, in his odd manner, and windingly find his way to me if we have not done any chow time in a while...so, he is very bright, and he manages really well for himself all things considered.

Sometimes I gather him up for a chow time, and his Crop has quite a few Seeds in it, which is a total mystery to me where he got them and how he ate them, but I guess sometimes he goes to the common Seed Bowls when no others are around, and patiently, somehow, eats by himself..! But I have never seen him do it.


Ohhhhh, golly...

The Homeopathic Medicines should be totally safe for your Pigeon, and may indeed help.

I do not know these medicines, but those who do maybe can step in here and reiterate about them for us both. I should try them also for the Pigeons I have.


If he is eating well, drinking as he feels is enough for him, pooping well, and gets some direct Sunshine now and then, and gets a little excercise each day...then he is doing very well I'd say as for good care and holding his own.

I would definitely not feed any kind of 'puppy chow' if it were me.

But just out of curiousity, what kind/brand have you been feeding him?

These almost always contain a lot of bad things, chemicals, pesticide residue, preservatives, toxins...and I feel you would do best to not feed any more of it to him, especially since he is frail in some ways, neurological ways at least..and for all we know, the puppy chow is contributing to these problems.

What little bad and heavily compromised nutrition is even present in these 'chows' at all, even still can not justify their use, compared to the entirely wholesome, elegant and good nutrition of Seeds, and small Berrys, and some occasional dark Greens.


I wish I knew more about siezures, and their address and prognosis, but I do not.


Have you been feeding him Goji Berrys? If not, they are very good and have a high amount of antioxidants which can not but be of benifit to him and his general immune health and healing.

Pidgey has experience with siezures in Pigeons, I will PM him...


Best wishes...


Post some more images...!


Phil
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