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wildeoneify wildeoneify is offline
Posted 9th August 2012, 04:21 PM
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: France
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Taking care of a sick pigeon, not eating or drinking..PLEASE HELP


Hi

my boyfriend and I found a pigeon outside our apartment 2 days ago. He was very disorientated and stressed so we decided to take him in to try to help him.

It was a hot day and do we tried to give him water but he wasnt intrested and some seeds from rat food but he wouldnt eat, he was very skinny and ropey looking.

We tilted his head into the water and he sipped a tiny tiny amount, and we opened his mouth and feed him some soaked bread and seeds by placing them near the back of his mouth...he got the picture of what was happening and swallowed fine.

He is currently in a large rat cage with a towel to hide in and water and food (peas, small peices of carrot, some potatoe, soaked bread )

but the problem is he just doesnt eat, we tried to leave him for most of the day so he was super hungry and hopefuly understand he has to eat but he doesnt and by the time we had a look at him he was feeling very skinny again.
Tonight I gave him some cooked lentels for protein, carrot and potatoe and water but he is very reluctant to drink, i'm worried as he has drank very little since he has been here.

We still dont realy know what happend to him, he still seems disorientated and he just doesnt understand to eat, he does if it is just inside his beak but if he drops it he just looks at it seems like maybe he has been hit and is brain damaged or something? we have tried to make him realise its food but he still doesnt.

I need some advice on what to do, we dont live near any animal rescues here in paris and my french is very bad to explain to the vet. I went to the pet shop but they don't stock any type of pigeon food, so what is the best thing i should be feeding him???? and how oftern????

I think he is young, he is quite small but i really am not sure how to tell it could just be because he isnt eating much...

Please help, any sugestions on what to do?! i really will try to do anything to save him, i return back to england in just over a week and i really hope he is ok to go back into the wild before.....

Im actually going out for a long time tomorrow, possibly 9 hours or so i will leave plenty of food and water and make sure he has everything but i want to make sure he has a good meal before as we don't know anyone who is able to care for him when we are not here... what is the best meal to feed him in the morning?

Thank you so much !!!!! hoep to hear from you all soon......


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Jay3 Jay3 is offline
Posted 9th August 2012, 04:47 PM
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Can you post a picture of him? Maybe he is just too young and doesn't know how to eat. Anyway, pigeons don't eat potatoes.
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Jay3 Jay3 is offline
Posted 9th August 2012, 04:52 PM
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If he is not a young bird, then he is sick, and needs medication. To show him to drink, which you should try to get him to do in order to rehydrate him, before feeding him, just gently dip his beak into some tepid water. But not over his nostrils. To a cup, put in a pinch of sugar and a pinch of salt. Here is a link for you that should help.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/b...dove-8822.html
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Dima Dima is offline
Posted 9th August 2012, 05:51 PM
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You can feed him defrosted pea, corn after you stabilize him as Jay mentioned.
http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm
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Charis Charis is offline
Posted 9th August 2012, 07:22 PM
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Country: United States
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Here are some pre-written feeding instructions.


You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 30-50 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.

In addition to the peas,one time a day, put a small pinch of powdered oyster shell, which you can buy at most pet stores, will supply the calcium the baby needs to support bone health.You sprinkle it on the peas.
__________
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to.
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.
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Dove Lady Dove Lady is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 08:14 AM
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I know the moment may have passed but I have to say....
water water water... a bird like this must be dehydrated regardless. Vitamins added to water add a pinch of salt too.. no sugars (sugars pull away hydration).

I'd worry about warmth and water first for any animal that is thin, and for the not "Easy Queezy", tube feeding thin kaytee, or other baby bird formula, after a day of water.

This fellow looks to have the start of PMV. Stareing, seemingly confused, weakly picking at seed. Support is all you can do.... and learning to tube feed can save his life and make it faster for him to recover... also less time for you to have to spend feeding him. we can't all spend an hour a day feeding peas. Besides peas, corn, all of that takes alot of energy to convert to usable energy... baby food is high in calories, vitamins, proteins and really acts as a "Protein Shake" for birds. I learned to tube feed on a feral with early PMV. it was the first time I was able to save someone with it and he recovered fully.

Things to expect;

With PMV: Soon he will become weak.. on one side or both, he will be stuck on his side and he'll hate it but he'll be too tired to right himself very often... a towel to prop him up and a smaller size box with help keep him upright and feeling more secure will help alot.his head will do weird things and he'll walk backwards sometimes.


With salmonilla: I noticed a bird with early stage salmonilla is pretty alert but becomes weak or unstable. No staring or confusion. otherwise the rest of the symptoms are similar to PMV.
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Charis Charis is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 08:29 AM
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove Lady View Post
I know the moment may have passed but I have to say....
water water water... a bird like this must be dehydrated regardless. Vitamins added to water add a pinch of salt too.. no sugars (sugars pull away hydration).

I'd worry about warmth and water first for any animal that is thin, and for the not "Easy Queezy", tube feeding thin kaytee, or other baby bird formula, after a day of water.

This fellow looks to have the start of PMV. Stareing, seemingly confused, weakly picking at seed. Support is all you can do.... and learning to tube feed can save his life and make it faster for him to recover... also less time for you to have to spend feeding him. we can't all spend an hour a day feeding peas. Besides peas, corn, all of that takes alot of energy to convert to usable energy... baby food is high in calories, vitamins, proteins and really acts as a "Protein Shake" for birds. I learned to tube feed on a feral with early PMV. it was the first time I was able to save someone with it and he recovered fully.

Things to expect;

With PMV: Soon he will become weak.. on one side or both, he will be stuck on his side and he'll hate it but he'll be too tired to right himself very often... a towel to prop him up and a smaller size box with help keep him upright and feeling more secure will help alot.his head will do weird things and he'll walk backwards sometimes.


With salmonilla: I noticed a bird with early stage salmonilla is pretty alert but becomes weak or unstable. No staring or confusion. otherwise the rest of the symptoms are similar to PMV.
Dove Lady... not to say the bird doesn't have PMV but dehydration can also cause symptoms similar to PMV...in fact, many things can.
Feeding peas doesn't need to take an hour. Many of us can do it in very few minutes. Learning how to tub feed is very helpful but for a person unfamiliar to birds and has just rescued one, tubing can be very dangerous for the bird. Popping peas is much safer all around.
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Quazar's Avatar
Quazar Quazar is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 08:46 AM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: SCOTLAND
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posts: 2,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove Lady View Post
I know the moment may have passed but I have to say....
water water water... a bird like this must be dehydrated regardless. Vitamins added to water add a pinch of salt too.. no sugars (sugars pull away hydration).

I'd worry about warmth and water first for any animal that is thin, and for the not "Easy Queezy", tube feeding thin kaytee, or other baby bird formula, after a day of water.

This fellow looks to have the start of PMV. Stareing, seemingly confused, weakly picking at seed. Support is all you can do.... and learning to tube feed can save his life and make it faster for him to recover... also less time for you to have to spend feeding him. we can't all spend an hour a day feeding peas. Besides peas, corn, all of that takes alot of energy to convert to usable energy... baby food is high in calories, vitamins, proteins and really acts as a "Protein Shake" for birds. I learned to tube feed on a feral with early PMV. it was the first time I was able to save someone with it and he recovered fully.

Things to expect;

With PMV: Soon he will become weak.. on one side or both, he will be stuck on his side and he'll hate it but he'll be too tired to right himself very often... a towel to prop him up and a smaller size box with help keep him upright and feeling more secure will help alot.his head will do weird things and he'll walk backwards sometimes.


With salmonilla: I noticed a bird with early stage salmonilla is pretty alert but becomes weak or unstable. No staring or confusion. otherwise the rest of the symptoms are similar to PMV.
Sugar does NOT pull away hydration unless used in excess
Hydration fluid is a mixture of water, with a pinch of salt, a pinch of baking soda, and a pinch of sugar , or honey or better still glucose.
The sugar provides energy so that the hydration can be absorbed by the system. Without sugar/glucose/honey, absorbtion takes longer.


Why oh why does everyone automatically assume and mention PMV
Nearly any illness in a bird can and often does give those symptoms.
Yes PMV is a possibility, but more so is hunger.
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Dove Lady Dove Lady is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 08:52 AM
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Dehydration was my biggest concern that's why I mentioned it first.... to be honest if he gets better with water then the other info is moot.

Popping peas takes along time too, for a person new to birds. Just holding them and getting the beak open... then getting the pea in can be frustrating think back to your first times....

I'm only mentioning tubefeeding because if it has PMV then being a bit more efficient can make the process less frustrating when you have to care for it for many weeks.

Also I meant "for those that are not scared to try.. or to for those who already know how...." (maybe that would have worked better).... Tube feeding is a great way to go. You can give them lots of water at a time (not too much!) because a little sip isn't enough, ever. And feeding is faster too....

I always thought we were allowed to suggest alternatives and modes of support.. but I seem to get corrected for silly little things around here.

I notice many of you are so particular about mentioning every exception to every rule.. maybe I should start to add a disclaimer to my notes:

"This writer doesn't cover every possible thing in a post because typing forever to mention each little thing takes too much time"
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Miss-Sassypants Miss-Sassypants is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 08:55 AM
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Dear French Lady,
Thank you so much for caring for this little pigeon. I hope the bird gets better and eats soon. She or he is very lucky to have stumbled upon two very kind and loving human beings! Thank you & good luck! Do update us.
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Quazar Quazar is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove Lady View Post
"This writer doesn't cover every possible thing in a post because typing forever to mention each little thing takes too much time"
It does, but sadly, to make an assumprion or suggestion of PMV with so little evidence is foolhardy.
The bird may als have had a collision with something,
It could also have canker, (which needs treatment with antibiotics) this could also be one of the reasons why the bird is not eating or wanting to drink.
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Dove Lady Dove Lady is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
Sugar does NOT pull away hydration unless used in excess
Hydration fluid is a mixture of water, with a pinch of salt, a pinch of baking soda, and a pinch of sugar , or honey or better still glucose.
The sugar provides energy so that the hydration can be absorbed by the system. Without sugar/glucose/honey, absorbtion takes longer.


Why oh why does everyone automatically assume and mention PMV
Nearly any illness in a bird can and often does give those symptoms.
Yes PMV is a possibility, but more so is hunger.
Wow.. I mentioned PMV because I've seen early stage VERY often.. better to be prepaired then caught of guard! yeesh! you'd think I jinxed the darn thing!

Ask yourself.. why is it hungry?? a wild bird finds food pretty quick.. and unless it is unwell, it wil eat.

OK forget I said anything... it has nothing wrong.. just feed it and it'll be fine... don't ever look for possibilites! wholy crap! bite my darn head off why don't you?

Sugar is hydroscopic.. meaning it attacts water. I realize sugar provides energy but everything I've ever read said to NOT include sugars until properly hydrated as the body cannot cope with sugars during the process. Salts are needed to hydrate quickly.

at that point (after 24-48 hours of water/vitamin mix) I'd mix molassis into the water as it has magneseiun, iron and other minerals in it that are better than "sugar" .

OK you know what.... I"m sorry I EVER wrote anything on here... That's why I hovered for 2 years before writing. You think I'm a Noob but I have alot or experience and ideas...I just thought you guys were more open to members help... but of course we all just have to shut up unless it's a broken wing or a dog attack, or some other obviouse problem.

I'll go back to hovering.. thanks.
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Dove Lady Dove Lady is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quazar View Post
It does, but sadly, to make an assumprion or suggestion of PMV with so little evidence is foolhardy.
The bird may als have had a collision with something,
It could also have canker, (which needs treatment with antibiotics) this could also be one of the reasons why the bird is not eating or wanting to drink.
if after a few days, the bird is still "rattled" from a collision? then it has brain damage...and brain damage in a bird ... well anytime I've seen it they die within 24-48 hours. so I ruled it out because they had it a few days

canker doesn't make them look dazed and confused... the poster said "We still dont realy know what happend to him, he still seems disorientated and he just doesnt understand to eat, he does if it is just inside his beak but if he drops it he just looks at it.... Also he can swallow the food that had been forced on him

sipping water (if at all)... staring , acting confused, in a wild bird.... hmmmmm many signs pointing to PMV OR salmonilla... yeesh. I didn't realize everyone would get so upset about keeping an eye out for possibilities!

I don't think it's foolhardy to actually read and try to deduce the problem... there is evendence of the possibility...
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Quazar Quazar is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove Lady View Post
if after a few days, the bird is still "rattled" from a collision? then it has brain damage...and brain damage in a bird ... well anytime I've seen it they die within 24-48 hours. so I ruled it out because they had it a few days

canker doesn't make them look dazed and confused... the poster said "We still dont realy know what happend to him, he still seems disorientated and he just doesnt understand to eat, he does if it is just inside his beak but if he drops it he just looks at it.... Also he can swallow the food that had been forced on him

sipping water (if at all)... staring , acting confused, in a wild bird.... hmmmmm many signs pointing to PMV OR salmonilla... yeesh. I didn't realize everyone would get so upset about keeping an eye out for possibilities!

I don't think it's foolhardy to actually read and try to deduce the problem... there is evendence of the possibility...

Not true, most times it is caused by damage to nerves, which takes time to heal (longer than some physical injuries),sometimes weeks.


Canker itself doesnt, but not eatingand drinking does.
Canker itself takes a lot out of a bird, and in numerous cases causes them not to want to eat or drink, although they will try if food is placed in their mouth. If a bird does have canker, it is also more dangerous to tube feed as this can dislodge nodules & the bird can bleed to death.


It is NOT the PMV virus which causes a bird to act in strange ways, but a damaged nervous system.
The nervous system is affected by many illnesses and injuries which must be considered as they far out number one single possibility.
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Jay3 Jay3 is offline
Posted 14th August 2012, 12:50 PM
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Gee Dove Lady! No need to get defensive. As Quazar and Charis have mentioned, the birds problems could be caused by many things. Jumping to a conclusion isn't a good idea as that sometimes will cause someone to miss something else. And BTW the rehydrating solution is this.

* International Rehydrating Solution:
To a cup of warm, or room temperature, water add a pinch of salt & sugar, mix well. Use this solution to rehydrate by mouth.

Also, Charis is right in that an inexperienced person can do harm by trying to tube feed if they don't know how and have never done it before. Popping peas goes very quickly, and can be learned by anyone willing to try. And it is much safer.

When someone disagrees with something you have said, they are going to say so, and explain why. Don't take it so personally. They have a right to advise, as well as you do. These guys have been doing this for a long time and know what they are talking about. Everyone is just trying to help this bird, and his care giver the best they can.

Also, just because they say that he seems confused and dazed, well that is in their interpretation of what they think they are seeing. Remember that for someone not all that familiar with pigeons, interpreting what they are seeing can be difficult. Just because the bird sits there staring ahead and not acknowledging the food put in front of him, to some, that could look as though the bird is dazed and confused. To many of us, we would see a bird who is unwell, and therefore just not interested in the food. Or to weak to even try to pick it up. But when placed in his mouth, he may swallow it. That doesn't mean he has PMV. Many illnesses will have the same effect. So try and be patient and work together to get to the bottom of what is going on, and focus on the bird, not your ego. Thanks.
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