Green Finch With Possible Canker - Pigeon-Talk
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amyable's Avatar
amyable amyable is offline
Posted 3rd October 2010, 03:00 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Midlands. UK
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Green Finch With Possible Canker


Hi,

I noticed a fluffed up Greenfinch today huddled up where my garden birds feed at my back door.
Later I saw it just sitting on the bird feeder still fluffed up and it was listing to one side and looking as if it was falling asleep. When startled it flew away ok.

It kept coming back and one time when it was sitting on the ground I managed to creep up on it and catch it.

I've just been looking for some info as to what could be wrong at it seems Greenfinches are very prone to Trichomonosis and many have been dying of this lately.

It does seem to have a problem eating and I looked in it's mouth and although it's difficult being so small, I reckon it might well have canker. It's beak does have some crusty looking stuff at the edges aswell.

Does anyone know if it's possible to treat this little one with Flagyl as I am currently treating a Woodie for the same.

If so, any advice on dosage?

Thanks

Janet
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 3rd October 2010, 04:32 PM
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Hi Janet,

For passerines the dose is 50mg (of metronidazole) per kg every 12 hours, so 5mg per 100 gms of bird. Flagyl Syrup has 200mg per 5ml that is 40mg metronidazole per ml.

On the Facebook Wing and a Prayer page there was a photo of a greenfinch that had had canker, was cured and was released. Why don't you ring Dianne tomorrow for a bit of extra advice? 0776 6685102.

Cynthia
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 3rd October 2010, 04:36 PM
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Janet, you can use Metronidazole to treat canker where it exists in other species of birds, the dose would be based on weight. I had a look to see what an average weight for a Green Finch would be, and it is 25-30g. This would mean this little guy would need a daily dose of 1.5mg twice a day. Since the suspension you have is 40mg/mL you would need to give him .04mL q12h (this would be just below the halfway mark between 0 and .10, the first line on a 1cc syringe, this will be basically one drop, (this will equal 1.6mg, because of the small dosing we could do either 0.03mL (1.2mg) or 0.04 (1.6mg), I thought it better we go with the higher dose).

Good luck with him,

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 3rd October 2010 at 04:54 PM..
 
amyable's Avatar
amyable amyable is offline
Posted 4th October 2010, 03:08 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Midlands. UK
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Thanks for that info.

I'll certainly give it a go but the poor bird looks very sick this morning and is tending to lie on it's side, not putting up much of a fight.

I'm going to give that outside area a massive clear and scrub today as this is where I found my Woodie with canker.
I actually didn't realise until I did some reading up on it last night that it was affecting the small birds so badly aswell.

Very sad

Janet
Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 4th October 2010, 05:47 AM
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Janet, do you have any rehabbers in your area? I know you are not really supposed to give water to many of these small birds, but part of his problem may be dehydration and energy needs. Start with some plain rehydration fluid to give first then if you make up some sugar water (teaspoon of sugar in 60mL of water) and very carefully give him one drop at a time to the side of his beak (have his head slightly tilted down), every 10-15 seconds, until you got 0.50mL (about 10-12 drops) and did this every few hours if the first round went well (up to 2-3mL for the day), he may greatly benefit from the hydration and energy, do two rounds of plain before moving to the sugar. Also, I would tend to want to put him on a broad spectrum antibiotic for a few days as well, to cover secondary bacterial issues.

Perhaps, one of the people here with Wildbird rehab experience with chime in with some suggestions for you as well. Had a look, and it seems that they will eat caged Finch seed, perhaps you could pick up some or Budgie seeds or see if you could give him some of the smallest seeds you have from a Pigeon mix as well as a water dish.

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 4th October 2010 at 06:00 AM..
amyable's Avatar
amyable amyable is offline
Posted 4th October 2010, 09:16 AM
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Location: West Midlands. UK
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Karyn,

I did manage to give him some Aconite diluted in water yesterday when I first brought him in to try and counteract shock, so this went ok.
I'll follow your instructions and see how it goes.
I put some small seeds in his box to see if he even tried to eat. He was pecking about when he was outside, not sure if he was actually eating them, maybe he can still get small ones down.
I don't reckon he's had many, if any as he's still listing to the side and can't seem to stand for long.

I agree with you I think he needs the energy first, I'll let you know how it goes,

Thanks

Janet
Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 4th October 2010, 10:23 AM
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OK Janet, let us know. Also, if you are not already providing it, some supplemental warmth is always good when any bird is feeling like this little guy is and perhaps you can roll a face-cloth up into a donut to place him in, to give him some support keeping upright.

Good luck,

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 4th October 2010 at 12:30 PM..
amyable's Avatar
amyable amyable is offline
Posted 5th October 2010, 04:33 AM
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Location: West Midlands. UK
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I'm sad to say the little one didn't make it through last night.
It was taking the fluids ok but just seemed very weak.

Thanks so much for trying to help.

Janet
Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 5th October 2010, 05:29 AM
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Janet, thanks for giving it your best try. I am sorry it was too late to pull this little one through.

Karyn
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 5th October 2010, 05:20 PM
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada - U.S.A.
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I sometimes have had Sparrows or Kestrals who I took to have Canker.

It is very hard for me to do a Throat inspection on these Birds, and they resent me trying to open their Beak to look!


None the less, by one means or another, if I see 'yellow' tint or flat paint like yellowish or even flat paint like white Urates, I give them Metronidazole, and, this has been successful in most instances, where there was in effect, enough left of the Bird to be trying to work with.


They can be dehydrated, starved, and have complicating issues as well as other illness at the same time of course, which need to be dealt with deferentially, according to the Bird and what he or she is willing or able to do...as well as their being very 'Wild' and uncomfortable about being handled or fussed with.


But anyway, if seeing any hints of Urate signs, I'd say, get onto adminstering Metronidazole a.s.a.p., also seeing to their being adequately hydrated, and, nourished and provided with comfort/warmth and accomidation which feels 'safe' to them.


These little-sized Species are so darned frail when it comes to illness, there is usually not much time at all left when we find them grounded.
amyable's Avatar
amyable amyable is offline
Posted 6th October 2010, 03:53 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Midlands. UK
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Hi,

That's the trouble with these smaller birds, looking into their mouths without causing undue stress is almost impossible.

Sadly I saw another Greenfinch in the same spot yesterday and can tell it's got the same problem although is still very active. The shame is if only we were able to get hold of them a few days earlier it could make all the difference.

It's heartbreaking to watch these birds carrying on their daily routine seemingly quite happy, to know how sick it's about to become.

I've set up a trap just in case it comes again today.

At least I have some good advice on treatment at the ready this time.

Janet
Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 6th October 2010, 02:48 PM
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,445
Janet, it would quite good if you could catch this little guy, know it may be a task to get him in a trap, but it can't hurt to try.

Good luck and bless you,

Karyn
 

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