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Margarret Margarret is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 07:37 AM
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern Calif.
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I know that trapping and relocating sounds like a very humane solution. But consider that when one does that, the bird that is trapped may have a mate, nest and babies that now are impacted. Either the mate will have to raise the young alone, or the babies might starve or die of exposure while the single parent is looking for food.

Margaret
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philodice philodice is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 08:22 AM
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Location: East Mesa, Arizona USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyro51 View Post
They were brought into the cities to serve as messengers and food in times of seige. For centuries their "natural" diet has been whatever man provides for them. Now that man sees no immediate use for them in the cities they want them destroyed, just as they wanted the passenger pigeon destroyed.

Cynthia
Nobody wanted the passenger pigeon destroyed. They just didn't believe it was happening until too late. The passenger was hunted for food, hunted to extinction. By the time people realized it was endangered, it was too late to save the passenger. The demise of the Passenger is the main reason why people stopped eating squab, for the most part, in the United States. Once the squab was off the menu, it was no longer viewed as useful by a large part of the U.S. population. The death of the Passenger served as a tool in Congress to save many endangered species by setting aside protected land. That cost money. I believe that is when some people began blaming the pigeon for costing them logging rights, fishing rights, hunting and dumping rights. From there it built to a hatred that will not abate until the Rock Dove, at first a victim of man's love, becomes a victim of man's hate. What if one day the Rock Dove dips into the red in terms of population, and conservation groups go crazy to protect them?
If that were to happen, one of the greatest, most sanitary 'garbage men' of the city would be gone and replaced by giant, diseased rats. I cry for that future to be averted. Feral cats would explode in population along with the rats, causing native species to be eaten and filling our yards with useless cat poop that you can't compost with. Rats would chew through our plants, trees, and houses spreading plague. Sparrows, Grackles, and Starlings would be even more populous.
We made the Rock Dove what it is today. This is our fault, but at first humans brought the rock dove with them out of love. Pigeons. Perhaps man's first best friend. When our cities are bleak and empty of natural life, I hope the pigeon will always be there to keep us company.

Why pigeons are better than dogs:
They have never eaten their owner.
TitanicWreck TitanicWreck is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 09:18 AM
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margarret View Post
I know that trapping and relocating sounds like a very humane solution. But consider that when one does that, the bird that is trapped may have a mate, nest and babies that now are impacted. Either the mate will have to raise the young alone, or the babies might starve or die of exposure while the single parent is looking for food.

Margaret



Plus won't a relocated pigeon simply fly home? You might drive out to the woods and release a pigeon-but by the time you get home, the pigeon you released willl be back, waiting for you...
 
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 09:22 AM
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Location: UK
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The passenger pigeon was considered a menace to crops and cheap food...they fed them to the hogs.

Our beautiful, gentle wood pigeon is perceived the same way now. Shot by farmers wood pigeons are sold for 10 a sack.

Cynthia
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 11:16 AM
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Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanicWreck View Post
Ever deal with people trying the harass the pigeons while you try to feed them?
I would tell him, Would you like me to do that to you?

Abuse is abuse, don't let anyone intimidate you, it's one thing to feed them under cover of darkness IF it is illegal, but the abuse needs to be addressed-if you can do so.



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John_D John_D is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 01:46 PM
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Country: United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryjane View Post
Never seen a pigeon in the woods. . .they are originally cliff dwellers and we took most of their original homes away from them by building all of our lovely skyscrapers. Technically we are responsible for them because of this, as I see it. If we don't feed them, they starve. This wouldn't necessarily result in less pigeons, as they breed so prolifically, but definitely would result in many more agonizing deaths amongst them. We've made their bed, and as they're forced to lie in it, the least we can do is make it easier. . .JMO.
Agreed. 'The woods' is not the natural home of the Rock Dove, wild or feral.

European settlers introduced semi-domesticated pigeons to N America, and the Romans and Normans introduced the idea of keeping pigeons in human settlements in Britain. Fine until pigeon keeping outlived its usefulness and the pigeons were abandoned to do their own thing.

Feral pigeons are a product of human interference with nature and are our 'inheritance'. Some people will protect an inheritance, others will squander it - or in the case of pigeons, seek to destroy it one way or another.

John
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"Pigeons know more than we think - and think more than we know" ~ John D.
LokotaLoft
Posted 18th December 2007, 08:39 PM
Posts: n/a
it is sad how people treat gods creatures these days , makes you wonder what would happen if you went and started kicking people at chinese buffet and accusing them of being an abomination of nature lol though I would rather see that then people kicking something so innocentant and uncapable of protecting itself ... long live the rock dove , be it in a loft or on the streets .. there is nothing more awesome then seeing a pigeon riding the wind ...
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MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 08:49 PM
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Location: Oceanside, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LokotaLoft View Post
.. there is nothing more awesome then seeing a pigeon riding the wind ...
I agree totally
If people were to take the time to watch a flock fly, they would probably find a new respect for them. They are beautiful when they fly, especially in the early morning and afternoons when the sun shines on their backs
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Last edited by MaryOfExeter; 18th December 2007 at 08:53 PM..
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ryannon ryannon is offline
Posted 18th December 2007, 10:59 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: No Country For Old Men
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 278
To echo what's been said above, city ferals should never be 'transplanted' into a forest environment: there's absolutely nothing there for them to eat.

I have seen flocks living in proximity to farms, but they had turned into carnivores and would collectively carry off a cow when they got hungry.


/feeble attempt at humor after massive edit: believe me, it could have been much worse

Last edited by ryannon; 19th December 2007 at 03:04 AM.. Reason: keeping the peace
LokotaLoft
Posted 19th December 2007, 06:13 AM
Posts: n/a
I too have noticed oddities within the farm ferals but it wasnt with carnivouring birds, it was the crossbreeding within the dairy herds and flocks as they graized together resulting in pigeons that moo and cows that coo hehehe... sorry I think my atempt was worse then yours haha
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 19th December 2007, 06:30 AM
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Country: United Kingdom
Location: UK
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Quote:
it's one thing to feed them under cover of darkness IF it is illegal, but the abuse needs to be addressed-if you can do so.
Except for Trafalgar square there are few places in the UK where feeding the pigeons is illegal, but those of us that feed them are vulnerable. It can take only two complaints from members of the public for an Anti Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) to be made against a pigeon feeder. This would order the pigeon feeder not to feed the pigeons within a certain location for a number of years. Breaking the order can lead to imprisonment. This is why I prefer not to be identified as a regular pigeon feeder.

However, if a member of the public tries to injure a pigeon and is identified, then it is a matter for the police. I once reported a man for setting his dog on the pigeons that I was feeding. It wasn't a case of the dog being boisterous and scattering the birds: he had trained his dog to stalk, catch and kill feral pigeons. The police assured me that he was commiting an offence and that if I could identify him they would take action. I also reported a man who objected to my feeding the pigeons for telling me that he was going to shoot the pigeons and put their corpses in my garden. The police wanted to give him a harassment warning but I felt that this might rebound and make him more likely to harm the pigeons.

Cynthia
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...while all the time your dear full-throated pigeons will be heard, and the turtledove high in the elm will never bring her cooing to an end. (Virgil)
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ryannon ryannon is offline
Posted 19th December 2007, 10:17 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: No Country For Old Men
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyro51 View Post
Except for Trafalgar square there are few places in the UK where feeding the pigeons is illegal, but those of us that feed them are vulnerable. It can take only two complaints from members of the public for an Anti Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) to be made against a pigeon feeder. This would order the pigeon feeder not to feed the pigeons within a certain location for a number of years. Breaking the order can lead to imprisonment. This is why I prefer not to be identified as a regular pigeon feeder.

/Etc...

Cynthia

There are moments when I positively long for the existence of roving bands of pigeon-loving but highly sadistic thugs - sort of like the lovable guys in The Clockwork Orange, who would set upon the bullies and other ASBO-obsessionals (Has the UK been buying up surplus imbecilic slogans from the ex-Soviet Union?) who harrass those who devote such energy and courage to aid and abet our friends the pijes.

I know that more violence is never a solution to violence itself, but sometimes nothing is more eloquent and satisfying than a swift and well-merited kick in the pants. Or the teeth, for that matter.

Last edited by ryannon; 19th December 2007 at 10:22 AM..
 

Tags
breeding pairs, domestic pigeons, feeding pigeons, feral flock, feral pigeon, passenger pigeon, pigeon feed, rock dove, wild bird, wood pigeon

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