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ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 2nd October 2007, 07:10 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257

Young Pigeon With Eye problem


I've just rescued a young feral whose left eye has a wart like growth on both of the eyelids. The eyelids are closed but I was able to open them gently and it seems the eye itself may be all right. Has anyone seen anything like this?

Thank you.

Last edited by ante bozanich; 2nd October 2007 at 07:14 AM..
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feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 2nd October 2007, 07:40 AM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
If you could post a picture, that would be great, though it does sound like
Avian Poxvirus. If you have other rescues, wash your hands thorouhly after
handling the one w/the warts. A solution of 1/2cup of Bleach to one gallon
of water will kill the pox virus...Nolvasan won't if you use that. I keep that
solution in spray bottles and when I had pox rescues would spray my hands
after handling before washing w/soap.

It's a virus, so it's mostly a situation of letting the virus take it's course,
between 4-5 weeks. You can treat for canker and the other known devils
that we normally treat rescues for. There are a few kinds of Pox Virus:

1. Cutaneous (dry or 'in the skin')
2. Diptheritic (wet or on and around mucous membrane, w/lesions similar to canker)
3. Septicemic (sudden onset w/organ involvement, fatal within days)

Some categorize more than these three, including Choryza (involving mucous
discharge from eyes and nares and Tumor, involving a bird who develops
cancerous tumors in the skin as a result of unresolved boils/warts becoming
cancerous, usually developing after the course of the virus.

It's not uncommon for their to be secondary opportunist infections, to see
respiratory involvement, or for the bird to start losing weight and need
supplemental feedings from the caregiver. A higher supplemental diet of
protein than normal is beneficial.

A bird can have more than one kind of Pox Virus at the same time and
can have canker or other illnesses concurrently as well.

fp
__________________
I have been feeding pigeons, thousands of them for years. But there was one, a beautiful bird, pure white with light grey tips on its wings; that one was different. It was a female. I had only to wish and call her and she would come flying to me.
I loved that pigeon as a man loves a women, and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life. Nikola Tesla

Last edited by feralpigeon; 2nd October 2007 at 07:51 AM..
pigeonperson
Posted 2nd October 2007, 08:02 AM
Posts: n/a
Ante,
There is a low level epidemic of pox going around New York City. The viral strain is not the strongest that can happen and I'm seeing a number of birds with very small pox lesions. Oddly enough, I see birds with only one pox lesion and it is usually on the eyelid or the cere. The vector is the mosquito which carries the virus. Once a bird has gotten over a pox virus, it is immune for the rest of its life.

I think the danger of a drying pox lesion on an eyelid is the possibility that it can scratch the cornea as the bird blinks but when the lesions are on eyelids, there is nothing you can use to accelerate their drying out without endangering the eyes.

Watch out for a canker infection because these two seem to often go hand in hand.

If the eyelids are closed all the time, I assume that you intend to hand feed the bird until the disease process is finished.
 
ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 2nd October 2007, 08:47 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257
Thank you. I am taking her/him to a rehabber today at 2:30. The growth is on the eyelids of only one eye so she can see with her other eye and also she can open the effected eye a little. The growths on the eyelids are very hard and I did not see anything unusually inside of her mouth or anywhere else on her body except for pigeon flies. I am not sure what to make out of it. Hopefully the rehabber will make the right diagnosis when they see her today.

She is young, still squeaking.
ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 19th October 2007, 06:17 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257
Looking at my last post, it's been now 17 days since I took this young pigeon to see rehabbers and the eye is getting worse. It looks now as if a round peace of chewing gum is stuck right on the top of his left eye. When I took him in, I was able to open his eye and now I can't do that, and the growth has much increased in size.

The rehabbers have told me that it's most likely pox virus. They said that it also looks like he might have a secondary infection in his eye; so I had treated him with the antibiotic they gave me for the first week. Now, as I said, I can't even open his eye. I'm worried that the wart has become cancerous. I am not sure what to do?
Pidgey's Avatar
Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 19th October 2007, 06:39 AM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 12,522
Pox growths can get pretty big and you're still within their normal schedule.

Pidgey
feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 20th October 2007, 10:34 AM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
The kind of poxvirus that eventually mutates into cancerous growths, does
so after the virus itself has run it's course. It would be interesting to know
what you were given to put in the bird's eye though. Was it an Ophthalmic
Ointment? If an ointment, I would think it to be problematic. This is an
instance where if treating topically, I would go w/Colloidal Silver, though
systemic might be a better choice.

fp
__________________
I have been feeding pigeons, thousands of them for years. But there was one, a beautiful bird, pure white with light grey tips on its wings; that one was different. It was a female. I had only to wish and call her and she would come flying to me.
I loved that pigeon as a man loves a women, and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life. Nikola Tesla
ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 26th October 2007, 06:50 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by feralpigeon View Post

It would be interesting to know what you were given to put in the bird's eye though. Was it an Ophthalmic Ointment? If an ointment, I would think it to be problematic. This is an instance where if treating topically, I would go w/Colloidal Silver, though systemic might be a better choice.

fp
It was Neomycin and Pollymixin B Sulfates and Gramicidin Ophthalmic Solution USP to be exact. It is not an ointment. It looks now as if the wort is starting to wrinkle on top and I hope is drying out. His eye is still completely shut by the growth and I hope the eye itself has not been damaged.

However I have another issue... I am not sure if I should start another thread?

A rescue of mine who had canker (see my thread Another Victim of Canker?), had survived but has overgrown beak; so I've been reluctant to release him. Recently, he got a female visitor in my bedroom (long story). After less than a week, they started their mating ritual. She laid an egg two days ago inside a large 16" by 24" plastic container where I keep their seed ball. I am not sure what to do. I can't have any more pigeons in my small apartment. Also, I'm wondering... where is the other egg?
Reti's Avatar
Reti Reti is offline
Posted 26th October 2007, 07:36 AM
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Location: Miami,Fl
Posts: 9,868
She might lay another egg today. Sometimes it happens that they lay only one egg. But the second one can come up to 48 hours later.
You can switch both eggs with dummies, or you can remove one and boil it and put it back in the nest and then remove the second one, boil and out it back.
Or you can just remove the eggs and throw away, but then they will start all over again shortly.

Reti
ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 27th October 2007, 09:03 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257
You were right Reti. She did lay another egg yesterday. I have to go get them some twigs, since I'm not sure that the pieces of nylon rope and cords are the best for them to keep building their nest with; and this is all I have at home to offer them right now.

I do have two eggs that I found which had never hatched. So in other words I can just remove these two new eggs and if pigeons are not sitting on them they will not hatch?
feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 27th October 2007, 10:28 AM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
They have to 'incubate' (sit on the eggs) in order for them to hatch. The
norm is the 44/48hour time frame, there are some that fall outside of this norm.

Hopefully if the eye is in the closed position, it will retain the moisture needed
not to become so dry that the 'wart' scratches the cornea as the natural drying process for the pox 'wart' takes place.

fp
__________________
I have been feeding pigeons, thousands of them for years. But there was one, a beautiful bird, pure white with light grey tips on its wings; that one was different. It was a female. I had only to wish and call her and she would come flying to me.
I loved that pigeon as a man loves a women, and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life. Nikola Tesla
ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 27th October 2007, 11:32 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257
Actually then now to think about it, these eggs will probably never incubate because every time I walk in my bedroom whoever is sitting on the eggs flies away from the nest. Why in the world will she lay the eggs inside their eating container which is on the top of TV set right at the foot of my bed? Most of the time they spend high above on the shelf.

So I guess the best thing to do is to leave the eye alone. It does look like the wort is shriveling up. The rehabbers have told me that I should release him after a week or so but I feel with only one eye he will not be able to navigate to well so I'm going to keep him and see what happens. He has my living room and the bathroom while the couple live in my bedroom.
John_D's Avatar
John_D John_D is offline
Posted 27th October 2007, 12:29 PM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South East
Posts: 9,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by ante bozanich View Post
A
So I guess the best thing to do is to leave the eye alone. It does look like the wort is shriveling up. The rehabbers have told me that I should release him after a week or so but I feel with only one eye he will not be able to navigate to well so I'm going to keep him and see what happens. He has my living room and the bathroom while the couple live in my bedroom.
He would have a problem. They can adjust, in terms of getting around, just as humans can - but, the biggest thing is that a one-eyed pigeon is at grave risk of not being aware of danger until too late. I can reach out and touch a couple of ours on their blind side, whereas they'd be ready to wingslap me well before then if I approach their good side.

John
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John


"Pigeons know more than we think - and think more than we know" ~ John D.
ante bozanich's Avatar
ante bozanich ante bozanich is offline
Posted 28th November 2007, 09:52 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 257
First thanks for all of your help and sorry for not responding sooner.

Bad news... Young pigeon is sick again.

Wort had finally fallen off couple of weeks ago and eye seems to be fine. I've been planning to release him, but all of the sudden he seems to be seriously sick again.

I've just noticed that since, at least, this morning he has not eaten. Where used to be many solid pigeon droppings there is nothing but green liquid. I think I need help.

Two other pigeons in my bedroom have been laying on the old eggs for a while, then they stopped, made another nest on the top of a shelf, and several days ago, to my disbelief, she has laid four new eggs. I have already replaced these four eggs with two of their previous eggs.

This couple seems to be healthy, except that I am finding a lot of poop which is unusually large, soft and smells very strong.

As far as the young pigeon, who got over the Poxvirus, I am very concerned. I have a feeling, he is very sick. I am not sure what to do. Please, I need some advice.

Thank you.
sabina sabina is offline
Posted 28th November 2007, 10:07 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 692
Hi Ante,
That's awful that your little bird is sick now again. I don't think there's much for you to actually do right this second. There are some nasty viruses that young birds are susceptible to, and they can happen so suddenly. We've had some really difficult situations with birds we were almost ready to release in the past as well.

Try to make sure the bird stays hydrated (with oral reyhdration solution), given the fluid loss with the diarrhea. And then it would be good if you could take the bird tomorrow for a fecal analysis--then if it is bacterial, he can be treated.

I hope things turn out ok...especially after all you've already been through with this bird. I really hope he gets better.

Sabina
 

Tags
avian vet, colloidal silver, female pigeon, male pigeon, male pigeons, pigeon flies, pigeon rescue, upper beak, wild bird, yeast infection, young bird, young pigeon

 
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