Irratic heart rate and Very hard breathing. - Pigeon-Talk
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Matt D. Matt D. is offline
Posted 20th February 2008, 10:49 PM
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Irratic heart rate and Very hard breathing.


I just got in from my nightly rounds through my lofts.... I knew something was wrong when I hit the breeding section. The black checker splash I picked up a month or so ago, as I walked into the loft him breathing. So I picked him up and held him, his pulse was so fast that I couldn't count even close to it. The bird felt like he just came in a day bird from 500 miles. So I need to have some advice, what could this be. I have never had this happen before. He isn't feeding young and if I go out in the morning and he is like this they eggs will be moved to pumpers. I'm going to the books and seeing what I can find, I'll be checking back here; Hope some of you could help me.
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TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 20th February 2008, 11:28 PM
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I'm sorry about this, Matt. There is no way any of us can really know what is wrong, if anything. Your knowledge of your birds and your own instincts are what count right now. If you think this bird is in trouble, then get him into a small, comfortable container like a dog/cat kennel with a soft towel, heating pad on low underneath (or a low wattage bulb on the bird but so it can get away if it gets too hot), and provide food and water and see what's up in the morning.

This might be nothing, or it might be something. Best to try and be safe and do the best for the bird.

Terry



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Matt D. Matt D. is offline
Posted 20th February 2008, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TAWhatley View Post
If you think this bird is in trouble, then get him into a small, comfortable container like a dog/cat kennel with a soft towel, heating pad on low underneath (or a low wattage bulb on the bird but so it can get away if it gets too hot), and provide food and water and see what's up in the morning.
Thanks Mrs. Whatley I put him in a crate when I found him and He is warm. No luck finding anything in all of my books so far, but am still looking and hoping that I can find something. This isn't going to be good if they rest of the birds were infected with what ever this and and my old bird team and a few youngster he was exposed to that are now with the rest of the team. Hopefully he was just having some type of attack and I'll make sure he takes it easy.
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TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 20th February 2008, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt D. View Post
Thanks Mrs. Whatley I put him in a crate when I found him and He is warm. No luck finding anything in all of my books so far, but am still looking and hoping that I can find something. This isn't going to be good if they rest of the birds were infected with what ever this and and my old bird team and a few youngster he was exposed to that are now with the rest of the team. Hopefully he was just having some type of attack and I'll make sure he takes it easy.
Matt, you can call me Terry ..

Hopefully this is just a little hiccup with this bird. Why don't you and the bird kind of chill out for tonight and let's see what's up in the morning? The condition of this bird could have been due to being frightened by something .. loud noise, rodent, predator .. who knows .. I know you have a secure loft, but our birds have the ability to "sense" a danger and react to it.

Please keep us posted!

Terry



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bloodlines_365 bloodlines_365 is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 12:00 AM
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i think i read similar to those on the alberta classic artilce and i forgot what the caused of it and also breathing with open beak when their resting or not doing anything im not sure, its been a while since i read those article... make a visit on their web site ....
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george simon george simon is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 09:30 AM
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Hi Matt, Do you have the book FIT TO WIN by Wim Peters? If you do go to page 52 paragraph 1.6.2 .It looks like you have some sort of respitory problem, the paragraph talks about Airsacculitis. In chronic cases treatment for Aspergillosis,using nystatin (Mycostatin),has given good results.To prevent replapses it is imperative that the treatment should be continued with for at least three weeks-even should the symptoms have disappeared after a few days. Matt I am not a veterinarian,but this is what I come up with after reading the books that I have. .GEORGE
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MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 04:50 PM
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Well a pigeon's heart can go a lot faster than you'd think, but I wouldn't jump to it being a serious problem yet. There's no telling what might have upset him.
Was the fast heart rate and hard breathing all you could see wrong with him?
Something might have attacked/spooked him, or maybe he might have gotten into a fight with another bird? I would keep an eye on him from a distance so he doesn't get any more nervous, and see how he is in about 5 minutes. If he doesn't appear to be calming down any, there's bound to be something else going on here. Keep him fed and most importantly watered well.

Edit: Just noticed how long ago this all happened. Heh....how is he doing now? Most of what I just said was probably useless now that it's been so long!
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 04:58 PM
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I once had one of my favorite homers (Glory) come down with something and he seemed to be hyperventilating. I took him into the vet who looked him over pretty well and couldn't find any smoking guns but he gave me some Baytril for him anyway. He was fine in about a week. I had another bird get the same thing, same symptoms and I didn't take him in nor did I treat him. He got better in about the same amount of time all on his own. It just about had to be viral.

What you probably want to do is figure out whether the bird is wheezing or making any other weird sounds from deep inside. Usually, we do some of that with a pediatric stethoscope, listening mostly on their backs. If there are any bad lung or airway sounds, then you usually do treat with something for respiratory infections. Glory's problem was very quiet, though.

Pidgey
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Matt D. Matt D. is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryOfExeter View Post
Well a pigeon's heart can go a lot faster than you'd think, but I wouldn't jump to it being a serious problem yet. There's no telling what might have upset him.
Was the fast heart rate and hard breathing all you could see wrong with him?
Something might have attacked/spooked him, or maybe he might have gotten into a fight with another bird? I would keep an eye on him from a distance so he doesn't get any more nervous, and see how he is in about 5 minutes. If he doesn't appear to be calming down any, there's bound to be something else going on here. Keep him fed and most importantly watered well.

Edit: Just noticed how long ago this all happened. Heh....how is he doing now? Most of what I just said was probably useless now that it's been so long!
Ok first off Nothing could have gotten or spooked him, in the breeding loft he just got off of eggs. No, I could tell if there had been a fight and he is in a individual breeding pen. I knew something was wrong when he didn't come to my head like he usually does, so it would be impossible to watch him from a distance.

Quote:
I once had one of my favorite homers (Glory) come down with something and he seemed to be hyperventilating. I took him into the vet who looked him over pretty well and couldn't find any smoking guns but he gave me some Baytril for him anyway. He was fine in about a week. I had another bird get the same thing, same symptoms and I didn't take him in nor did I treat him. He got better in about the same amount of time all on his own. It just about had to be viral.

What you probably want to do is figure out whether the bird is wheezing or making any other weird sounds from deep inside. Usually, we do some of that with a pediatric stethoscope, listening mostly on their backs. If there are any bad lung or airway sounds, then you usually do treat with something for respiratory infections. Glory's problem was very quiet, though.

Pidgey
Ok, this is what I was thinking it would just stop but I did want to check with you all and see what you had to say. He isn't wheezing or making any other weird sounds. He was back sitting on eggs when I checked on him this afternoon.

Quote:
Hi Matt, Do you have the book FIT TO WIN by Wim Peters? If you do go to page 52 paragraph 1.6.2 .It looks like you have some sort of respitory problem, the paragraph talks about Airsacculitis. In chronic cases treatment for Aspergillosis,using nystatin (Mycostatin),has given good results.To prevent replapses it is imperative that the treatment should be continued with for at least three weeks-even should the symptoms have disappeared after a few days. Matt I am not a veterinarian,but this is what I come up with after reading the books that I have. .GEORGE
Thank you George, I do have the book and read the paragraphs you told me to. I got some garlic down him and a few other remedies I have, he seemed to be doing much better. Though if he was another attack I will be doing something alittle more that what I did this time. Thanks for all your responses.
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 06:28 PM
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A very good thing to help figure things out is to get the respiratory rate. With pigeons, the norm is about 30 breaths per minute. You usually have to watch the tail bobbing or the lower chest/abdomen expanding in order to get it. They can be running high for quite a variety of reasons and even because their red blood cell count is down due to a hemolytic process. That's where a bacterial infection or some other cause (usually pathogenic) has killed a bunch of blood cells. This creates an anemic state where the blood has a reduced amount of the cells that carry the oxygen. As such, the deficit might have to be made up by breathing more and the heart pumping more.

In such cases, the time it takes to return to apparent normality is however much time it takes the body to remanufacture enough red blood cells to supply the body with the required baseline oxygen. If the bird has to exert itself like during a race, it might not yet have built up enough to manage and would therefore end up grounded and having to walk home. You wouldn't know that it was in such a state just looking at it in the coop, though.

Pidgey
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Tilly Tilly is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 07:04 PM
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Sounds like night terrors to me. I have one that gets real scared if I go in the loft after dark. He flies around and will crash into the wall so I have to be very careful.
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roxtar roxtar is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 09:37 PM
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How old is the bird? Perhaps he had some sort of cardiac event?

Sounds to me like you just scared the bejeezus out of him, or something respiratory but, all depending on the age of the bird, could it not be that he's just not as young as he used to be and he was having a bit of an episode due to advanced age?

EDIT: I hope your bird and his babies turn out ok.
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Matt D. Matt D. is offline
Posted 21st February 2008, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by roxtar View Post
How old is the bird? Perhaps he had some sort of cardiac event?

Sounds to me like you just scared the bejeezus out of him, or something respiratory but, all depending on the age of the bird, could it not be that he's just not as young as he used to be and he was having a bit of an episode due to advanced age?

EDIT: I hope your bird and his babies turn out ok.
This will be his first year breeding, he is two. And I don't 'scare' my birds. He is always the first one on my shoulder looking for a peanut.
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Charis Charis is offline
Posted 22nd February 2008, 07:51 AM
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I thin that what roxtar meant is that you startled the bird, unintentionally, by going into the coop after dark. The bird had no way of knowing it was you because he can't see in the dark.
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