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joannecarpenter joannecarpenter is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 03:52 AM
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found injured pigeon


hi, i live in coventry ,england.
i work outside and i have really tame feral pigeon that comes up to me every day. Its pecks my boots when its wants food.
the another day someone nearly stepped on it, causing to fly up and hit its head on the roof of my market stall.
the next day , its seemed fine but its walking in circles but its is eating fine. but when it flew up it hit the shop window.
The next day it did not come to the stall. but i found it sitting around the corner on the shop roof and when i put food down ,it flew down but it is walking in circles but still eating fine.
But i have took it home because i am worried about it.
I have put it a cat box with food and water , in a warm spare room.
i dont know what wrong with it or how long to keep it and i am worried it might be die.
its just sitting in the box looking at me but it has ate some food
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John_D John_D is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 04:20 AM
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Hi

It is possible it may have got a concussion, if it wasn't walking in circles before it hit its head. Is there any sign of an injury to its head at all? It may have a problem with its vision as a result, but that may be temporary

Keeping it warm, fed and watered in a spare room where you can check on it is probably the best thing for now. It will need to be able to fly properly of course, to be released.


John
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 04:27 AM
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Although he hit his head these are not the symptoms of concussion , it is far more likely that he has a viral disease called "Pigeon Paramyxovirus" and that that caused him to hit his head as it affects flight in various ways. I have put a link to information on the disease at the bottom of the page.

It is very infectious to pigeons and there are often epidemics in feral flocks at this time of year, but it doesn't infect humans or other animals and mortality is low, he should survive but would be better off if he was not re released into the wild as although the pigeons recover they are often left with scarring on their nervous system which can lead to a return of the symptoms in time of streess.

You did the right thing by taking him in...he will need to be kept isolated from other pigeons for 6 weeks, most sanctuaries will euthanase pigeons with PMV because they do not have the isolation facilities, but try ringing Lindsey Newell at Burton Wildlife Rescue (Burton-on-Trent) 07780742748. She mentioned that she had taken in a PMV pigeon a couple of weeks ago and placed it in isolation...I don't know if it is still there.

Keep an eye on his poops, they are a good indicator of whether he is eating properly and there is also a type of poop that is considered typical of paramyxovirus affecting the kidneys. It looks like a solid worm in a pool of water.

http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html...rus__pmv_.html
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joannecarpenter View Post
hi, i live in coventry ,england.
i work outside and i have really tame feral pigeon that comes up to me every day. Its pecks my boots when its wants food.
the another day someone nearly stepped on it, causing to fly up and hit its head on the roof of my market stall.
the next day , its seemed fine but its walking in circles but its is eating fine. but when it flew up it hit the shop window.
The next day it did not come to the stall. but i found it sitting around the corner on the shop roof and when i put food down ,it flew down but it is walking in circles but still eating fine.
But i have took it home because i am worried about it.
I have put it a cat box with food and water , in a warm spare room.
i dont know what wrong with it or how long to keep it and i am worried it might be die.
its just sitting in the box looking at me but it has ate some food
I have to agree with feefo on this one, since you also mentioned the pigeon was tame and they may act that way when they are not feeling well.

Thank you so much for your kindness in bringing him home, please follow the above link and care info.



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plamenh plamenh is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 08:29 AM
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Is there any chance that you can post picture of the bird and poop?
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Bella Bella is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feefo View Post
Although he hit his head these are not the symptoms of concussion , it is far more likely that he has a viral disease called "Pigeon Paramyxovirus" and that that caused him to hit his head as it affects flight in various ways. I have put a link to information on the disease at the bottom of the page.

It is very infectious to pigeons and there are often epidemics in feral flocks at this time of year, but it doesn't infect humans or other animals and mortality is low, he should survive but would be better off if he was not re released into the wild as although the pigeons recover they are often left with scarring on their nervous system which can lead to a return of the symptoms in time of streess.

You did the right thing by taking him in...he will need to be kept isolated from other pigeons for 6 weeks, most sanctuaries will euthanase pigeons with PMV because they do not have the isolation facilities, but try ringing Lindsey Newell at Burton Wildlife Rescue (Burton-on-Trent) 07780742748. She mentioned that she had taken in a PMV pigeon a couple of weeks ago and placed it in isolation...I don't know if it is still there.

Keep an eye on his poops, they are a good indicator of whether he is eating properly and there is also a type of poop that is considered typical of paramyxovirus affecting the kidneys. It looks like a solid worm in a pool of water.

http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html...rus__pmv_.html
Hi Feefo. I was just reading through the article you had linked here. I happened to notice that the the homeopathic remedies listed hemlock and belladonna, both toxic to humans and animals.

I understand that hemlock does have some therapeutic uses in humans, but the dosage supplied in the link is a pill a day. It just seems like what may have a therapeutic effect on a human would be far too much for a bird.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I am having a difficult time wrapping my brain around it. I wondered if you might know more or could point me in the direction of some research explaining the benefits these could have on PMV birds?

Thank you...I don't mean to hijack this thread, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Please forgive my ignorance, but I am having a difficult time wrapping my brain around it. I wondered if you might know more or could point me in the direction of some research explaining the benefits these could have on PMV birds?

Hi Bella,

First let me warn you that when I try to explain the principles of homeopathy and how it works to John his eyes glaze over before I get past the first sentence.

You are right, in its natural state Belladonna is a deadly poison, but the homeopathic pill is actually a sugar pillule coated in such a weak dilution of Belladonna that has no trace of the original substance remains. It is the "energy" of the original substance that leads to improvement.

I think that it is safe to say that in their original state all the substances used for homeopathic remedies would be toxic to humans and animals to some extent. This is because homeopathy is based on the principle of "like cures like": a specific substance which causes distinctive symptoms in humans is diluted to such an extent that no trace of the original substance remains, and is used to "cure" the symptoms that would be produced by the original poison, even if those symptoms have a completely different cause (such as a virus).

The homeopathic remedy is created by a pharmacist starting with what is called the "mother tincture", a liquid made out of, say, Belladonna (Deadly Nightshade) in its raw state. He takes one drop of this and adds one hundred drops of alcohol...this is shaken throughly and the "first potency" is made. A drop of that dilution is then taken and added to another 100 drops of alcohol, shaken etc and that is the "second potency"...by this stage (by my reckoning) you have 1/100 of a drop of Belladonna mixed in 100 drops of alcohol... a single drop of that dilution is taken and mixed with 100 drops of alcohol...this procedure can be done up to 200 times, for a X200 potency. The remedies that we recommend for pigeons are the 30th potency, which means that this dilution procedure has been gone through 30 times. By this time there is no trace of the original Belladonna, but its "energy" remains.

The dilution is used to coat a sugar pill, which in humans is dissolved under the tongue ...the dose does not increase with the size of an animal, a single pill would be used on a humming bird, a pigeon, goose or swan. In homeopathy it is the regular repitition, rather than the size of the dose, that matters.

Belladonna is a deadly poison. If one of us, or a pigeon, ate it , it would first of all attack the nervous system causing twitching, convulsions etc...but if a pigeon is showing these symptoms then there are the chances that a potentiated dose of X30 would cure him. So if twitching and convulsions are the symptoms of PMV that a pigeon is showing, the homeopathic remedy Belladonna would be indicated. But if the pigeon is showing other symptoms of PMV, then a different remedy would be indicated. For example, I chose Conium Mac for Feefo, because her specific symptoms (torticollis, fits, weakness) seemed to tie in with the symptoms of hemlock poisoning (vertigo, trembling, weakness).


I hope that this reassures you.
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 11:32 AM
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Cynthia, thanks for the in depth explanation, I found it very informative.

Karyn
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John_D John_D is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 12:45 PM
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And even I read it and understood the principle (without glazed eyes )

John
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PoppyFieldVet PoppyFieldVet is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 01:00 PM
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That is probably one of the best explanations of homoeopathy Ive read. Thank you Cynthia!
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Bella Bella is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 01:20 PM
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Thank you! That was extremely helpful!
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PigeonQueen PigeonQueen is offline
Posted 5th February 2010, 02:04 PM
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Thank you for taking in this pigeon. It would have eventually starved to death or be caught by a predator because of the lack of co ordination which is one of the main PMV symptoms. It will need supportive care possibly for many months. Some Wildlife centres put PMV's to sleep. So please check what will happen to it.

There is a place that takes PMV's in Surrey if you could get there? I have no car otherwise I would take it. Please let me know.You could try Cynthia's suggestion and see if Burton Wildlife might take the Piggie. Please keep us informed. Jayne
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 6th February 2010, 09:22 AM
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I have been in touch with Burton Wildlife Rescue and can confirm that they do take in pigeons with PMV and keep them isolated from other birds.
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...while all the time your dear full-throated pigeons will be heard, and the turtledove high in the elm will never bring her cooing to an end. (Virgil)
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 8th February 2010, 11:04 AM
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About the homeopathy...thanks Karyn, Bella and Charlotte...and John! LOL!

I wish I knew how homeopathy works, but the funny thing is that I never question how and why poisons work! It's a puzzlement!
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...while all the time your dear full-throated pigeons will be heard, and the turtledove high in the elm will never bring her cooing to an end. (Virgil)
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jenfer jenfer is offline
Posted 8th February 2010, 11:36 AM
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There's some good information on homeopathy and wildlife here:

http://www.ewildagain.org/Homeopathy...pathictips.htm

As far as potency, I almost always use 30c. I administer by dissolving 1-2 pellets in an ounce of spring or distilled water (in an amber dropper bottle), then giving the bird a few drops from the dropper from the outside of the beak.

Jennifer
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