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Victor's Avatar
Victor Victor is offline
Posted 5th January 2006, 08:54 AM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Country: United States
Location: In Nebraska a place called Tooterville
Posts: 4,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feather
So, tell me how does a bird get home that can't fly, can't see, and falls over as she walks? Don't give up Victor! There are angels on this web-site, and they are out there for Tooter too! How do you think that pigeons find their way home?
Feather
Feather, that so all inspiring. Thank you so very much.
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Feather Feather is offline
Posted 5th January 2006, 10:11 AM
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Hawks


Some hawks stay in the same area all year round, and others migrate. The Peregrines are the ones that really scare me. They will dive bomb your flock. No matter how high your pigeons are flying, they will fly higher. I've watched in horror as they have split up my flock, and knocked them right out of the sky. I live in California, and fortunatly they are not around here all year. Another pigeon lover told me the hawks are really bad from Oct. to March. My birds seem to know when a hawk is around, except for the Peregrine, they never know until it's there. A man that lives around here made his own hawk trap. I'm sorry, I don't know much about it, other than he says it works. I have been wondering where he is because I have several of his birds. I never thought about it, but maybe he's in jail.
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 5th January 2006, 11:18 AM
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I was just reading your old posts Victor and found that in December last year the pigeons that used to roost in your house disappeared. Did they ever come back? It could be that a hawk arrived then and they decided to move on, just as Tooter has probably decided to make himself scarce because of the close encounter.

Cynthia
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Victor's Avatar
Victor Victor is offline
Posted 5th January 2006, 06:42 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Country: United States
Location: In Nebraska a place called Tooterville
Posts: 4,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyro51
I was just reading your old posts Victor and found that in December last year the pigeons that used to roost in your house disappeared. Did they ever come back? It could be that a hawk arrived then and they decided to move on, just as Tooter has probably decided to make himself scarce because of the close encounter.

Cynthia
Many of our minds are in syncronization here Cynthia. As a matter of fact, my wife, Bev, just brought that up this afternoon before I came to work. We looked up at the crawl space below our upstairs window and trying to think back to our pre-Tooter days when 3 or 4 pigeons used to live up there and how Bev would say how beautiful that coo-co-roo-koo cooooo sounds were in the morning and at dawn when they returned to sleep.Believe it or not I wanted to plug up that space before winter set in beacuse I didn't care for the noise. Now I miss it.

It is strange that the many months while Tooter was recovering, the other pigeons that used to "live with us" all of a sudden "disappeared." The hawk theory came to our minds.

I can still remember well as if was last week, when I saw last Summer, something large spiralling down towards Tooter , but I was there for him. You would think i would have learned my lesson?
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Victor's Avatar
Victor Victor is offline
Posted 5th January 2006, 06:51 PM
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Country: United States
Location: In Nebraska a place called Tooterville
Posts: 4,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feather
Some hawks stay in the same area all year round, and others migrate. The Peregrines are the ones that really scare me. They will dive bomb your flock. No matter how high your pigeons are flying, they will fly higher. I've watched in horror as they have split up my flock, and knocked them right out of the sky. I live in California, and fortunatly they are not around here all year. Another pigeon lover told me the hawks are really bad from Oct. to March. My birds seem to know when a hawk is around, except for the Peregrine, they never know until it's there. A man that lives around here made his own hawk trap. I'm sorry, I don't know much about it, other than he says it works. I have been wondering where he is because I have several of his birds. I never thought about it, but maybe he's in jail.
Very interesting Feather. I actually "thought" Hawks flew south for the Winter. I should have studied their lifestyles a long time ago.

I have not seen the Hawk around my place for almost 2 days now.I have had my eyes focused so much to the sky lately that I have to put eyedrops in.

What you stated explains why the flock was no where to be seen when it was still light a couple of days ago. They must know.
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phyll phyll is offline
Posted 6th January 2006, 03:22 AM
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 736
Victor,
Since Tooter may have travelled quite a distance from your home, I have another thought.
Ask your family, friends, co-workers, EVERYONE, to stop in at the vets & shelters in THEIR neighborhoods, no matter where they live.
If you can FAX them some flyers, that would be great. If not, they simply leave their numbers with the receptionists, & ask to be called if anyone brings a pigeon in matching Tooter's description.
Many years ago, our family dog got out & was hit by a car. A very kind man picked him up & took him for treatment. Out of our minds with worry, we placed newspaper ads, checked shelters & vets. We did everything we could think of to find him, all to no avail.
Our dog was at his rescuer's vet ~ many, many miles from our neighborhood. Eventually, the man thought to walk our dog in the area where he found him & our neighbor spotted him, thank God!
Victor, make an inquiry at your local vet & shelter about adding Tooter's name to their computer compilation of lost pets in Nebraska.
He may have already been brought to a shelter, get the word out as soon as possible.
May God give you & your family strength, & may He watch over Tooter.

Phyll
bevslape bevslape is offline
Posted 6th January 2006, 10:29 AM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 110
Hi Phyll,

I am Victor's wife. He did call the shelter a few days ago and they told him to check in every other day with them. He put up some more fliers on telephone poles around the neighborhood today.Thank you all for being so very nice.
Feather Feather is offline
Posted 6th January 2006, 01:28 PM
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,632

Tooter Missing in Action


Victor,
When we enable our friends to use that very special gift that God gave them we forfeit our ability to protect them. We are helpless while they are in the sky. Eveytime they take to their celestial playground I am in awe, and yet always afraid that at any moment a predator may show. I am one of those who have not been able to take away their rights to fly. You can’t blame yourself for letting him do what he was designed for.
It seems as though you have a support group across the nation. It reminds me of Jessica in the well.
When I read your post, I can feel your fear and desperation. Victor, I live in southern California, we have hawks here all year around, and in the months of Oct. through March, northern hawks migrate here. I am not an expert on the hawk situation in Nebraska.
Encourage crows they are great Sky Police. I once made a hawk so nervous by yelling, waving and whistling that it dropped my bird. Your experience has fortified my belief that under certain circumstances we can change the situation. The trick was to get to the pigeon before the hawk went back to pick it up. I took off running, fell, bit some dust, and broke my hand. I wasn’t sure if my bird was still alive, because unlike little Tooter he just laid limp in the hawk’s clutches. I was lucky, I brought my bird home! But the hawk went back to where it dropped him. I got the binoculars, and saw him sitting for hours in the tree above where I found my bird. So actually you were there for him. While in a conversation with a knowledgeable member of this web-site, when I told her of the incident, and that on other occasions I have whistled when hawks were near and it made them fly away, she explained to me that when you make shrill noises the hawk thinks that it is in another hawk's territory. She said that she mimics the hawk's sound, and she has it down too. Just the fact that the raptor, and that amazing little bird of yours flew off in different directions is a blessing in itself. It sounds like you are pretty much covering all the bases. Good Luck To You and Bev, Feather

Last edited by Feather; 6th January 2006 at 01:47 PM..
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Larry_Cologne Larry_Cologne is offline
Posted 6th January 2006, 02:08 PM
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Country: Belgium
Location: Antwerp Belgium, formerly Cologne, Germany, formerly San Antonio, Texas (birthplace)
Posts: 1,791

Tooter, make it home.


I hope Tooter makes it back.

Emailing local vets and animal shelters with a picture might help. We lost Pidgiepoo almost a year ago when crows chased him at a local city park in Cologne a mile away, and haven't seen him since. We never saw any traces of blood. Saw a couple of downy feathers under a tree where he may have perched, but they may not have been his. If they were his, and he made it to that particular tree, then maybe he was safe because it was a bit away from where the pursuit took place. He would have been scared and would probably have hidden in the backyard of apartment buildings (and inaccessible to our search). So many questions. If he escaped and was fatally injured he may have found himself a sequestered place to die, and how would someone coming across him know that this pigeon meant something special to you?

You realize that so many animals pass away, out of sight of their companions and mates, and these others must also wonder what became of them. I saw a pigeon pair, from the window nest twenty feet across the street from my window, sit on a window ledge one story higher and spend two days mourning and comforting each other because of the dead several-day-old featherless baby pigeon below. I watched them a long while, wondering, and concluding that they could be doing nothing else. Their emotions, their gestures were so obvious (to me. I could be wrong). I had come to be aware of them as a very caring -- and dare I say loving? -- couple. The male ("Footless") was easy to recognize because he had no toes, but still managed to mate. I saw him last on April 20, 2005. Surely his mate missed him. If some creative force, energy, God, call it whatever you will because no name is adequate or necessary, took care for this creature's existence, why should that creator cease caring? And if time, as some speculate and theorize, does not really exist, then that caring is something that does not come and go.

Our Pidgiepoo was eight months old and actively courting the females, and may have taken up with one somewhere (we hope) or been taken in by someone. We put up photocopied notices with a small picture on utility poles and such, and we realized how hard it can be to contact the one person who may have the answer you are looking for. But people do network. In a large city there is so much going on. We placed several newspaper ads (in newspapers in which I have very seldom had the need to look at the ads). We got phone calls. I was not able to get a photo onto a lost and found animal website. Spent surely hundreds of hours looking (still am looking, when on the bus or streetcar).

We heard from many wonderful, caring people. Not everyone has the time to focus on our search, and that is okay. There are many things going on in the lives of others, and what is going on in my life is not of paramount importance to them. We were able to help out several other pigeons because of these contacts.

A lady called us the afternoon of New Year's Eve because she noticed our telephone number on her cell phone (referred to as a "Handy" in Germany) and asked if we had yet found Pidgiepoo. Her husband had passed away in May, she had moved, et cetera, had been busy. She had called in February to tell us of a brown and white (ash red) pigeon not far away, with unusual looking toes, whom she thought might belong to us. I went looking. "Scraggly" (ill-kept feathers) had swollen toes because of string around them. The right middle toe looked as big as my little finger. There were usually fifty to a hundred other hungry pigeons there at that busy intersection. Feeding street pigeons is forbidden, and I was never able to catch him. Even with sore toes he occasionally strutted before the females. I saw him about once a month, and by summer all his toes were gone. When one first saw him one would think he was sitting on the ground. When he moved he seemed to float over the ground. A gust of wind would tip him easily. By fall his feathers were in good shape and he was perky, and there wasn't much poop clinging to his rear, which he had a bit of trouble reaching with his beak. He seemed to fly well. I last saw him December 10th, and suppose he is still around. At the same time and place I also came across "Splitbeak," whom I caught in July, removed two ounces of diarrhea-caused poop built up and embedded in feathers on her keel, took to the vet, subsequently set free, and fed for four months from a jar of seeds until she disappeared last December 6th.

I suppose all this writing helps me organize my thoughts on what I have done with pigeons. Fortunately no one has to read what I have written and pass a test on it. But, who knows? Perhaps a time may come in the future when there are so many billions and trillions of people on earth and elsewhere that there will be any number of students doing doctoral dissertations and theses or the equivalent on any person who existed in our time, just as we now have archeologists carefully going over pottery shards with a camel hair artist's paint brush in someone's garbage pit, and coprologists analyzing and fondly handling petrified dinosaur poop. Come to think of it, maybe I better print this out on paper and wax it, or engrave it on some gold plate, and thus make it easier on some future student, lest some kid come along with a magnet and corrupt all these bits of data.

My wife thinks I need to get out a bit more and free my brain (and help her clean house, I suppose).

Last edited by Larry_Cologne; 3rd March 2007 at 12:29 PM..
phyll's Avatar
phyll phyll is offline
Posted 7th January 2006, 04:12 AM
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 736
Hi Beverly,
Shelters usually advise you to check in every other, or, every few days, to see if your pet was brought in to that particular shelter. If your shelter networks with the other shelters in your state, please be sure that Tooter has been included on their "lost" list.
A rescuer may find Tooter fifty miles away & he will be at a shelter there.

I pray that Tooter returns to you soon.

Phyll
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 7th January 2006, 09:37 AM
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Country: United Kingdom
Location: UK
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Some of you may remember Sue who rescued and handraised a collared dove (Fluke) from an egg last yearhttp://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showth...referrerid=560.

I am certain that she won't mind my copying this excerpt from a Christmas e-mail I received recently as a reminder that however dire things seem there is always hope::

The 'baby' dove has grown into a beautiful adult, and gets on really well with my white dove, Georgie.
I was in hospital recently, and my son accidentally let Fluke fly off. We were all very worried, and resigned ourselves to the idea that he was possibly dead (It was during the snow, and very cold) but two weeks later we found he had actually flown into the local pub window, been rescued, and had been living with a love bird while they looked for his family!!!
We now have him back in the aviary, and Geogie has stopped pining.
I'm amazed that he was recognised as a hand-reared, tame bird, given that he looks like a perfectly wild collared dove. He really is a fluke, isn't he?!


Cynthia
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...while all the time your dear full-throated pigeons will be heard, and the turtledove high in the elm will never bring her cooing to an end. (Virgil)

Last edited by Feefo; 7th January 2006 at 09:41 AM..
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Reti Reti is offline
Posted 7th January 2006, 05:14 PM
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Oh, Cynthia, what an amazing story. Fluke is a lucky bird and his owners are lucky to have him back.

Victor, hope Tooter is found by some good soul and is being well cared for and is soon returned to you.

Reti
Victor's Avatar
Victor Victor is offline
Posted 7th January 2006, 06:42 PM
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Country: United States
Location: In Nebraska a place called Tooterville
Posts: 4,055
Unhappy

[QUOTE=Larry_Cologne]
So many questions. If he escaped and was fatally injured he may have found himself a sequestered place to die, and how would someone coming across him know that this pigeon meant something special to you?
You realize that so many animals pass away, out of sight of their companions and mates, and these others must also wonder what became of them. QUOTE]

I am still trying to be hopeful though it has been a solid week now that I have lost my beloved Tooter. The post that Larry C. made though impacted me to realize I have to prepare for that possiblity of that fate and realize that a worse case scenario must not be ignored.Thanks to all for your support and the love shown.
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Brownieluv Brownieluv is offline
Posted 7th January 2006, 10:07 PM
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No beating up


Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor


....... I can still remember well as if was last week, when I saw last Summer, something large spiralling down towards Tooter , but I was there for him. You would think i would have learned my lesson?
Please don't blame yourself. I wavered about letting Terry help with a rescue until it was too late for at least one of "my" pigeons. I believe we have to learn our lessons, mourn our lost birds, but not blame ourselves. Until we have the experience how are we really to know?

By the way, are pigeons considered feral if they once resided with people but have gotten lost?
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Victor Victor is offline
Posted 7th January 2006, 11:27 PM
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Location: In Nebraska a place called Tooterville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownieluv

By the way, are pigeons considered feral if they once resided with people but have gotten lost?
That is an interesting question. I personally believe that it would depend on the pigeon itself, and probably how long it "lived" with a person or people. I think it would also depend on whether it was held captive as a "pet" against its wishes, or was it kept because of a rescue circumstance, and then of course, if it was raised from the egg or baby stage.

The Funk and Wagnalls Dictionary defines the adjective "feral" as 1.Not tame nor domesticated;wild.2. Of,relating to,or typical of a wild beast;savage.

The pigeon that I had for almost two years was a feral rescue.He adapted to living with people, and particularly love my grandson Alex and me...he seemed to enjoy gracing us with his presence on top of our heads.He adapted to trusting us for him not having to worry about drink or food.He adapted to going out of his cage, and on command going back into his cage, but if he had to re-adapt to the outdoor wilds, I believe that he would adjust just as well, because he was a STRONG bird. He survived two BB wounds, and recently a horrible Hawk attack.

I never did "home" Tooter,so for intense purposes, he very likely could have been forced to re-adapt to "feral" life.
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