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3K views 28 replies 16 participants last post by  Maggie-NC 
#1 ·
Hi Gang,

I just finished up chatting with someone in another forum, a random conversation with a gentleman who is a "falconer". Initially I was interested in his "hobby" of falconry" and had questions but the conversation just went down hill from there.

After I figured a "common interest" in birds was established, I then enlightened him about my pigeons. It wasn't too far into the convo that he started in on the same OLD CRAP about how pigeons are disease ridden birds that are "a concern" to him and his falconry sport. He tried to tell me that pigeons were responsible for "frounce" in falcons and a health hazard to them. Frounce, what an old term for canker I told him. I explained to this man that any bird is capable of acquiring canker and that certain species were more susceptible than others but how pigeons are more resistant than some other birds. Clearly, he wasn't interested in hearing the facts but I assured him that I was fairly well versed in many bird hobbies/species, including falconry. He told me that he had pigeons before and even upon hearing about my runts, wanted to know where they could be found near him. No doubt to use as decoys for his falcons and hawks.

The conversation then turned to monetary values, times spent with the birds and he insinuated that pigeon folks don't spend nearly the same amount of time with their birds as a serious falconer does, training, and gaining trust with their birds. WHAT A LOAD OF YOU-KNOW-WHAT!!!!!. He told me that his $1500.00 gyr/peregrine cross breed was way too valuable to be sentenced to a "caged life". I then interjected that serious pigeon breeders/racers spend WAY more time & MONEY on their birds than that. He didn't seem to want to believe this. I was as diplomatic as I could be but this person was a brick wall and very argumentative by this point.

Near the end, he was testing me and my knowledge of his birds, showed my a picture of prize falcon, a cross breed between a gyr falcon and a peregrine and chiding me to identify it. I thought it was a prairie falcon but he immediately informed me that any apprentice of his would have instantly known better.

Bottom line, I'm not impressed with this person or his hobby. Not that I was before because of the nature of the hobby, but I was interested still. It would seem that being a lover of avians as a whole doesn't matter really within the different groups. I mentioned this to him without hesitation and then closed the chat.

People are SO ignornant, whether they are interested in birds or not, they still have a negative attitude and opinion of pigeons and it's disgusting. I could have argued with this person all night long but I quickly saw how fruitless and pointless it was...dealing with such an IGNORANT person who calls himself an ex pigeon fancier and "bird lover":mad:
 
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#2 ·
Well, Brad, what to say? There are predators like Hannibal Lector, Jeffrey Dahmer and falcons... and then there are prey like Mahatma Gandhi, Abraham Lincoln and pigeons. People choose their sides as to whom they admire the most. You chose pigeons; he chose falcons. You're good, he's evil. What, really, did you expect in talking with him?:D

Pidgey
 
#3 ·
Brad, what a shame. This situation is close to what I've been moaning about for years: People will put out bird seed and "ooooh and ahhhh" if bluejays or cardinals, etc. show up to eat....but get all up in arms if a few hungry pigeons stop by to eat as well.

Also, I'm sure there are some prejudices that even exist among pigeon fanciers...for example, I'm sure some people who keep pigeons for show and sport would consider their birds with bloodlines way above feral pigeons and may not even like feral pigeons at all. I'm not saying everybody -- especially not the people who are members here -- but in the sport, I'm sure there are some that feel that way. Kind of like someone who breeds or owns expensive pedigreed show dogs -- they would consider a plain ol' mutt beneath their animals and may not even like mutts, even though they like and value their type of dog.

It's too bad that many people limit themselves with that kind of thinking.

Linda
 
#4 ·
Thanks Guys and gals for understanding:)

I did happen to mention to this person during the length of the conversation that I was a member of pigeontalk. He'd better not show up here or I'm afraid we'll be forced to gently but persuasively "nudge" him out! LOL:p

We have no tolerance here for those types of individuals. Him, interested in my birds weights and sizes.....no doubt trying to figure out a better "prey" bird for his falcons and hawks!

It just always surprizes me because I figure that bird lovers sort of stick together mostly. I know this is not true because serious parrot breeders will often shun pigeons as well.

Your thoughts and comments are very much appreciated, they make me feel better and not alone:)

Thanks,
 
#5 ·
To be frank, Brad, I don't tell anyone outside of this forum that I love pigeons because I know of many prejudices against the birds inside of my own family. They all have a negative opinion towards them, mostly out of ignorance. My mother, in particular, grew up in a city where they were very commonplace and I cannot bring up the subject of pigeons with her. She just plain does not like them.

I also do not communicate with people who like hawks and falcons because I already know what most of them usually feel towards the pigeon. I'm just surprised that the person who you communicated with had at one time liked pigeons and then turned around and now sees them differently. What a shame.

I read somewhere on the Internet someone who raced pigeons and the way he weeded out those who were too old to keep the speed, he would throw up in the air near hawks and if they made it back alive, he kept them. If they got attacked by the hawk, he pretty much felt like, "Oh well, they're too old." And that's how he maintained his flock of pigeons. They were just sport to him - nothing more - like greyhounds are to some people when they can't race as fast, they get rid of them. I personally disagreed with his method but you know there are some people you cannot reason with and so you have to look the other way and move on. There's no law stopping people from doing what I just described, to pigeons.

One of the reasons I was surprised about this website was because of its existence. I had been searching for years for someone else to show their love of pigeons and support of the birds (other than for sport) and was I ever relieved to find this website! So what if the world doesn't like us for liking them, at least we have each other here! We're our own support group.

Maybe as more people discover this website, more people will learn how wonderful the birds are. Maybe then they'll get a better rep through us talking about them and gradually the negativity towards them will begin to diminish. This forum is the best thing for pigeons. It's the only site I've seen that puts them in a positive view.

Anyways, your friends are here Brad!
 
#6 ·
Hi Garye and thanks as well for the comfort,

Yes, I should have known better but I always give people the benefit of the doubt in these matters. I figure if you like one species of bird, then you must like another by osmosis or something.

I know what you're saying with the way that some fanciers treat their birds and practically "force" them meet a certain death. I never understand this type of mentality or inclination to do such a thing to another living animal. It's hard for us to understand how others can view a living creature in such a way as to be so expendable or a "throw away" in such methods. *sigh*

This person said he raised pigeons for a few years, but "got bored" with them. They weren't exciting enough for him basically and I suppose he wanted the thrill of the hunt which is why he turned to falcons and hawks. He accused me of not listening, being ignorant to his hobby but when I did the same, I was the bad guy and spouting garbage, VERY ANNOYING!

I myself don't mind telling others of my passion towards pigeons, some will listen with an open mind, some will laugh inside to themselves and you can tell.......so be it, I don't really care.

It is very comforting to have each other here, people who understand us and why we appreciate the "lowly" pigeon as much as we do.:)
 
#7 ·
Got a guy at work calls pigeons "flying rats"

He's a security guy, he carries a gun, and talks tough but the day I got Gee-Three after the dog had bit him and his crop was punctured and he was running around on the floor bleeding and hiding under the machinery it was this security guy that came over and got down with me and crawled around the floor helping me catch the little fellow B4 he turned into dog food. Some people talk a lot, but when the rubber meets the road they can change - now this guy always asks me how my flying rat is doing. There's hope for even the most jaded pigeon haters, it just takes the right situation and a little work on our part.

NAB :)
 
#8 ·
My 2 cents too...

Since I was fortunate to be able to publish my stories on this site and started reading the various threads, I'm noticed something that DOES give hope.

The people who come to this site looking for help and getting it. They run the gamut from teens to adults. How many times have you seen these "newbies" say: "THANKS for the help...this pigeon has completely changed my outlook about these birds!" "I never knew pigeons _______(fill in the blank)"

I admire all birds. They have their own niche in the scheme of things. If I had one wish, it would be to FLY.

My own daughter still calls pigeons "sky rats" but because of Mr. Squeaks, she is also seeing pigeons in a different light.

Usually, when I start raving about pigeons, the one comment that always comes up is: but they poop so much! My answer: "sure they do - what goes in comes out, but their poop is GREAT fertilizer for plants - maybe even better than bat guano!" :D
 
#9 ·
falcon

Lee here,
This guy would flip for sure if i showed him my $14,000.00 racer ha ha ha also the revival of the hawk/falcon population could be attributed to the pigeon population meaning that hawks/falcons feed on pigeons in the wild...I mean i hate to see a hawk take a pigeon but it is natures way ........
 
#11 ·
mr squeaks said:
Usually, when I start raving about pigeons, the one comment that always comes up is: but they poop so much! My answer: "sure they do - what goes in comes out, but their poop is GREAT fertilizer for plants - maybe even better than bat guano!" :D

Hi Mr. Squeaks,

Great comments and thanks. As a matter of fact though, ALL birds poop copious amounts:p Pigeons (normally create neat little firm bundles)...Hawks, and other birds like gulls make sloppy, white icky messes in just as much regular intervals as pigeons due to a high metabolism that all birds share:)
 
#12 ·
Hey now!

I guess we’re the exception. We volunteer as wildlife rehabbers for pigeons and song birds as well as with a group called Raptors Inc – Raptorsinc.org. Only difference is they rescue the injured birds in order to help them, not enslave them for sport.

You can easily take a raptor and feed it fresh meat without the need to hunt and kill anything. Hell, if you raise them from babies I’m sure you can give them a high protein diet without any meat what so ever. This guy you were talking to seems like he just does it for kicks, not for any true love for animals.

Hunters come in every shape and size... even as Falconers.
 
#13 ·
Hi Brad,

Sorry to hear about your frustrating experience w/this closed minded person.
They do come in all varieties, and for every topic under the sun. I'm sure you were an excellent ambassador for pigeons, but negative attitudes many times require prolonged exposure to the facts before change comes about.

fp
 
#14 ·
Pigeonhood

Hi Brad and all,

Your bad experience was interesting . I know you handled in a very professional manner as to credit pigeonhood.

Those of us who were not raised with pigeons in a manner of speaking have had a pigeon come into our lives in one form or another, just as mine did with my family and I.

Since I can remember back to my child hood when my mom took me in the city bus to downtown El Paso,Texas we would watch and feed the piegons in the park, and othertimes we would go to the lake and feed the ducks.

In recent years we had a small flock of pigeons living in a crawl space between our house and attic, and my wife would often coment on how relaxing the coo-ing sound was to her, then all of a sudden, they moved on, where to I do not know. My regret now is that I did not take an interest in feeding them or watering them. It was a "live and let live, you live your life and I will live mine." :(

It was something that was taken for granted, maybe not appreciated, I don't really know for sure, maybe a combination of that and other things?

Now, my family and even some of my neighbors, have an appreciation and understanding of the often so misunderstood pigeon.

Sometimes it takes people like us to spread the word of the beauty of pigeons, or maybe just a pigeon entering their lives, just like the security guard story mentioned earlier.
 
#15 ·
falcons and pigeons

hello.

Sorry Brad that you met a falconer who had such a one sided view. My husband is a retired vet and an ornithologist. Because of this I have had years of involvment and gained an understanding of many birds. Falcons appealed to me at first because of their abilities in flight & general dramatic beauty, etc. I still am involved from time to time with a Bird of Prey Centre (out of my district) I have spent time watching these birds, held them on my wrist & there is an extreme sense of power which is very wild and beautiful. But I love my pigeons & have spent so much time observing their behaviour & caring for them. I have great respect for both these species of birds. Falcons could not be the sort of birds that pigeons are for us.
But we should also be able to see past 'just pigeons' ......it is not the birds that present problems, but the people who are their carers. In nature, they would belong to their own world, not the human world. It is unfortunate if we have to weigh one species against another.

Lynnette
 
#16 ·
Hi Brad,

I'm sorry too, that you had such a negative person to talk to, he was way out of your league, out classed, and way out of line.

Would you like us to go to that forum and bombard him with pro-pigeon talk? (I was going to click on a smiley face, bt it doesn't work)

I have found that bird lovers, who claim that they really love birds, don't at all. They can be selective and have preferences based on ignorance, ego, being self-absorbed, anything else that makes them look good! It is like when you find a bird rehabber that "doesn't do pigeons", what kind of bird lover is that?...an ignorant one.
 
G
#17 ·
Common Sense

I don't really understand why people get so hung up about pigeons. One of my theories is that pigeon exterminators like to spread rumours about pigeons and diseases. Think of how many people have allergies to cats. Consider how many dogs get fleas, or ticks. At the same time people are not worrying about cats and dogs as being dangerous vectors of diseases; people love cats and dogs. Anyway, if you're going to catch a disease it's probably going to be from the person beside you in the elevator, not the pigeons walking around your park bench.

Monica
 
#18 ·
Yep, I agree with you all,

I think that if someone is going to be an animal lover, then they have to love ALL animals, they can't be selective. I have rescued many animals with my dad especially ones near the harbour, one of the best rescues was a baby seagull, who had been hit by a car, half his skull was crushed in, his eyes were closed and he was shaking terribly. However, after three days of love and care, he was up and about eating the fish we caught that day (you know the ones that don't sell that well). We took him to the JSPCA, and they healed the rest of his wounds and released him! now thats a happy ending!:D I would not listen to people who talk gibberish like that Brad, we have them everywhere in the world. One last question, can show pigeons actually make $15,000 - $20,000?:eek: I have a beautiful pigeon who comes to our garden, and he has tags on him, todays his fourth visit, he looks a peacock pigeon, with all the long multicoloured feathers sticking out his neck, should I try and catch him? he's very timid, I only see him out my window.

Buddy
 
#20 ·
"If you love something, you don't want it dead. It's that simple."


I have an abundance of garter snakes around my yard, and will not mow them if I see them slithering across the lawn.I always try to look out for them and not hurt or kill them, though once or twice a year , the unfortunate for them does occur. Some people have snakes for "pets". I do not wish death on the snakes, and respect them, but I do not love them. That is simple too.
 
#21 ·
One of the things that bothers me is that some people who are avid birdwatchers, to the point they maintain logs on their sightings, will not go to the aid of an injured bird because they believe that nature must have its way. Baloney! Birds have a tough time of it and thousands are saved each year by good people who rescue them, heal them, and release them which insures future birds. I recently looked at a forum that had a newspaper article about 400+ birds being killed when they were migrating and flew into the wires supporting a TV tower. Most of them were the tiny, precious warblers. They stated many thousands of migrating birds are killed this way each year and efforts are being made to do something about it. This is just another example of what is happening to our wildlife.

I sometimes go overboard on not killing things. In our house we capture every spider or cricket that gets in and put them outside. No snake is ever killed. We catch them and take them to a wooded area. Any turtle we see on the road is done the same. However, I do exterminate flies and mosquitoes, but even with those I sometimes wonder if they don't have their place in the grand scheme of things.

Brad, good for you to at least try to make this guy understand.

maggie
 
#22 · (Edited)
Hi Maggie,

I agree with helping our wildlife when they are definitely injured, due to contact with our "concrete jungles" because that is why most injuries happen, due to something man made or injuries because of our "pets", or other not so easily forseen dangers caused by human intervention. We ARE therefore responsible to help.

As far as wildlife that is still living out in their natural habita,t without human contact, that would be different. Easier said then done, because if I were out there watching a sick bird or animal, I probably still would intervene. :eek:
 
#24 ·
NumberNine said:
Maggie,

I think the main thing about killing is that it's not doing your karma any good. (By karma I mean the sum of all your actions, or if you prefer, the debts you will have to pay).
NumberNine said:
Karma, accepted by all the Indian systems w/the exception of Carvaka, is best described as action or deed, it is neither punitive nor rewarding per se, but rather a cause and effect which balances energies until there is a "perfect equilibrium".

This would include not only the deed itself, but the thoughts and intents that went into producing the action. The main point is, that it [karma] can "reward"
or "punish" dependant on the action/deed, and several types of karma are always in play beyond individual karma and whether the balance would be considered a reward or punishment. Sorry about the off topic folks. :eek:

fp
 
#25 ·
Lady Tarheel said:
I sometimes go overboard on not killing things. In our house we capture every spider or cricket that gets in and put them outside.



maggie
Maggie, I am with you all the way! Oh, well maybe almost all the way...I must say I draw the line with icky spiders:eek: .

The other day my daughter was over and commenting that I turned her into a crazy person that chases after crickets and takes them outside.Sometimes good parenting does rub off.:rolleyes:
 
#26 · (Edited)
Hi Folks,

Thanks for all your words of support and over this somewhat disturbing incident of mine. I'm pretty much over it now because I tried to educate this person, I tried to make him understand that pigeons are just as valuable and worthy as his hawks and falcons. I was mostly surprised by his apparent turnaround in his opinion of pigeons and how bitter he became. There was more said between him and I than I posted about as well...I shortened the story somewhat.

I guess the bottom line is, I tried to make him see that his love of falcons was no different from my love of pigeons. I was surprised at his ignorant view of pigeons as disease carriers as well since he claimed to have raised them himself. Perhaps he didn't raise them long enough or care enough to research things fully.

You've all brought up very interesting points and comments about the nature of people and how there are many different individuals who "claim" to love animals but in fact probably don't.

At least the people here in our forum are genuinely caring in regards to pigeons and all aspects of nature and the many critters we share the planet with:)
 
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