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2K views 11 replies 5 participants last post by  naturegirl 
#1 ·
:confused: I have a flock of pigeons whom are having trouble with a sickness and am looking for help. I sometimes hear them sneeze (not a lot). They seem to show no signs except to be fluffed up and not be as active. Days after they will be on the floor of the coop with wings hanging low and unable to fly. A day or so after that they will be dead. Their breasts are very narrow and they often have droppings around their vent. This has primarily effected young of the year birds but also some breeding adults. It seems to strike most effectively just as the young birds are getting independence from their parents. I lost many young birds at the end of last summer and about 1 per month over the winter. That is from a flock of about 30. Most of my breeders have survived but I have lost a few.

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Please let me know If I can disclose additional info.
 
#2 ·
Hello Lazy8man, where are you located at? Have you taken any to the vets at all? Have you ever done a fecal float? others will be along shortly to help advice as they have more knowledge than I. Do they have any of the yellow hard matter in their mouths or throat?

Cindy
 
#3 ·
Lazy8man................do a google search on "Young Bird Sickness"......this sounds very much like what I've seen here in my loft a few years ago. I had no idea what was going on, but knew I had to do something quick or I was going to loose birds. I saw a bird throwing up.......checked a few birds and realized they were loosing weight fast. This all happened on a week end. I had no idea that this web site existed. I took a chance, found a local fancier who had some Amoxicillin and gave it to my birds for 7 days I believe. I never had a bird die and went on the have a pretty decent race season. I'm not saying that this is what your birds have but it sure sounds like it to me. Others will be along shortly to give more advice. I sure hope you can figure out what's going on and stop it.
I think what happened with my birds was from bringing on new youngsters and quarantining them like I should have. It was our first year with the birds and I thought I could get away with not "following the rules".......learned the hard way, you can't........:rolleyes:
Good luck
 
#4 ·
Lazy8man, welcome to PT....yes, Cindy's correct. We need some information
on what you have done so far in terms of hands on exam and what you have found. Also, if any tests have been done and as for the other fanciers in the
area, have any visited your loft and had a look at your birds?

What is the color of the poops, are they formed, etc.? Any discharge around
the eyes? Any babies dying in the nest or is this primarily a young bird issue?
What kind of housing do they have and the flooring?

Usually, you can whittle down the possibilities w/enough information. BTW, is
there an avian vet in the area that the fanciers use?

fp
 
#5 ·
Renee, are you talking about AdenoVirus?

fp
 
#7 ·
I never knew what was wrong with my birds specifically. The birds droppings were the first thing I noticed, but I wasn't THAT alarmed. Being new at all this and looking back now, I should have been, but........anyway, I had gone to an auction a couple of weeks before and bought some white birds. I did separate them for about 4 or 5 days and then just put them in with all of my youngsters. I just happened to be standing at the window one day looking out at the loft and saw one of those white bird throw up. I immediately went to the loft and caught "a white bird"........couldn't tell them apart and found it to be VERY skinny. I started checking other birds and many, but not all of them were very skinny also. That's when I realized something was wrong. Like I said, it was a Friday afternoon.....no vets around here that would have a clue so I started calling local fanciers. I even called John Sampson, a world renowned pigeon fancier/breeder. He suggested I get the birds on Amoxicillin right away and said it sounded like this Adenovirus, also known as Young Bird Sickness. It never affected my Old birds at all. It was only the young birds.
I then started calling pharmacies only to find out that Amoxycillin tablets were $4 a piece!! AND I couldn't get any without a prescription anyway. Then, lucky for me, I found out that one of the guys in our club had a bottle of the capsules. I went and got it and started the birds on it right away, and in about 3 days, I started seeing an improvement. I never had a bird die, but I suspect they were close and again, had a very good race season with no apparent bad effects from the illness. I now keep a bottle of Amoxicyllin at all times. You can buy a bottle of 50 capsules from Foys for about $18.
I've known people since then that had the same sickness go through their loft. Unfortunatley for them, because they work and don't spend a lot of time with their birds, they had a few die before they realized that there was a problem. These same people also have wire floors so had no idea that there was a problem with the birds droppings which is a tell tell sign.
Sorry, didn't mean to get so long winded. What this person is describing sounds exactly what I went through.
 
#6 ·
Here's a link to Alberta Classic on Adeno Virus:

http://www.albertaclassic.net/adenovirus.php

It doesn't sound as though you are having the 'failing to thrive' syndrome, but
sifting through the symptoms is a good place to start.

fp
 
#8 ·
Sounds like you had a major crisis and good for you to have on hand meds right
now. Amoxicillin can help in a range of issues and is good to have on hand.
AdenoVirus is, like the name implies, a viral based illness, here's what Chevita
recommends for it:

http://www.chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html


"Young Bird Sickness


Young bird disease has spread rapidly around the world in recent years, causing severe losses among young birds.

Pathogen:
This is a mixed infection, involving viruses and bacteria (especially E.coli and cocci, but also protozoa).
The pathogens are transmitted by air, dust and contact between birds, as well as via communal drinking water and feed.
Outbreaks of the disease are promoted by stress factors such as weaning, the introduction of strange birds into a loft, vaccination, heat (accelerated bacterial growth, water shortage), training of juveniles (basketing) and young pigeon flights.

Symptoms of the disease:
The disease can take two forms:

Sudden death not preceded by any perceptible signs of illness:
A typical scenario sees young pigeons released from the loft for their daily training (on a hot summer's day, perhaps), whereupon they fly around for an hour and then return to the loft. They land on the roof or on the alighting ledge, do not respond to the breeder's attempts to entice them into the loft, and die within the space of a few hours.

Death preceded by visible signs of illness:
During the period between the onset of symptoms and death (lasting from 3 days to 1 week), the following symptoms are observed: lack of activity, puffed-up plumage, refusal of feed, swelling of the crop, weight loss, greenish-yellow faeces in puddles, vomiting.

Recognition of the disease:
Owing to the numerous pathogens involved in this disease, it is only possible to make a tentative diagnosis.

Similar conditions:
E.coli infection, hexamitiasis.

Treatment:
There is no vaccine against young pigeon disease that could be used to prevent infection. However, sick pigeons can be treated with adenosan. And timely use of adenosan may also prevent an outbreak of the disease in birds suspected of infection. "

And the product:

"adenosan contains ingredients derived from various plants belonging to the Crucifer family, together with immunoglobulins.
Use in young pigeons after races as a metaphylactic measure against Young Bird Sickness:
The plant-based components possess a broad spectrum of activity against bacteria, viruses and fungi. The immunoglobulins enhance immunity within the gut itself, thereby protecting the intestinal mucosa against pathogen attack."

You can get a secondary infection alongside a virus and need an antibiotic,
and the alternate diagnosis includes bacterial and parasitical causes.

The adenosan appears to be an alternative healing modality with a broad range of microbial activity. There wouldn't be any 'rebound' effect from using it, which is good.

Thomas Drugs carries a very broad range of antibiotics that are purchased inexpensively here:

http://209.61.150.8/SearchResults.asp

It's also listed in the Pigeon Supply House link in the Resource Section.

fp
 
#9 ·
More info

I am in northern michigan. I don't imagine there are any special bird vets around here. I have had no medical investigations occur.

My birds fly free most of the year. I keep them in during the hawk migration in the fall and spring to limit losses. The orgin of most of these birds are from feral stock with some homer infused. When loose they often go to the neighbors dairy farm to visit the wild ones. Many of my birds originally came from that farm.

These birds live outside year round. I have a very large coop made out of an old grain bin. It is about 10x10 and 14 high. There are a lot of nesting boxes (more boxes than birds). It is steel sided and roofed. The steel siding goes down on the sides about half way. Below that is wire. The floor is dirt although I have straw spread around on the floor to help keep it clean and easily changed. I must admit I do not see alot of droppings other than ones splattered on something. Nothing looks really stange though.

here are answers to some othe questions

No eye discharge
Rare for young to die in nest as peeps
infected birds are skinny but others are not.
no yellow matter in mouth or throat
 
#10 ·
There must be some avian vets in the area, I'd suggest looking up bird clubs
and calling them for a recommendation. Then bring in the worst case to be looked at and you'll have the key to fix the problem for all.

In the meantime, I would:

* Clean the living area thoroughly w/a solution of 1/2 cup Bleach to a Gallon
of water to address bacterial/viral microbial issues.

* Separate sick birds from the general living area so that the problem doesn't
'feed' on itself', this will hopefully help break the cycle.

* Augment the feedings of birds who are separated to help maintain the
bird's ability to fight illness.

You probably need to institute some regimens in your loft such as cleaning, nutrition, vitamins and medicines on hand for emergencies. It might be helpful for you to take a look at the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

I'm assuming you have no meds on hand, if this is true, you need to either
go to the Pigeon Supply House link in the section above and place an order or find a fancier in the area willing to sell you something broad spectrum for the birds, or if there's a grain store in the area, call and see what they have in stock.

fp
 
#11 ·
I 'm so sorry to hear about your birds.

It is an invitation to trouble if you allow your birds to fly outside continuously and have contact with the wild ones. Many diseases are contagious and can be picked up easily from other birds.

I don't know about the coop you provide them, but pigeons thrive on dry air, with good ventilation, they cannot handle drafts of air, nor standing water....just some things to consider. Also, if the ground in their loft is dirt that could be a problem as E coli lives in soil. Also, rats and mice can bring disease in the coop if they are around or in their living area.
 
#12 ·
Hi again I am not sure where in Northern Michigan you live but here in Bay City (South of Kawkawlin) there are many bird vets. If you would like I can get you names and numbers to these vets in this area if you want to call them and talk to them ok? Let me know and hopefully we can get to the bottom of what may be going wrong.
 
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