I'm frantic to save this baby bird - Pigeon-Talk
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Marsha McClelland Marsha McClelland is offline
Posted 4th June 2011, 07:24 PM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: USA
Location: I live in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio but reside much of the time at my son's to take care of my Grandchildren while he works to have his own business. Computer repair & carpet & upholstery cleaning, power washing etc.
Posts: 18

I'm frantic to save this baby bird


I have what I think is a baby Robin that needs help, really bad. I know his parents threw him out of the nest & wouldn't take him back because of his problem so I nursed him back to health.

I was reading at this site about air sacs so that's why I am asking for help, here, & hope it's okay, being, this bird is of a different feather than those this site's about.

He has two air sacs on each side on his back that take up almost a third of his tiny body & connect to his crop area & it looks like one great big bubbly mess.

After eating his crop expands into the same transparent looking bubble. The crop & each bubbled side on his back has two sections. So all around his head is surrounded by what looks like five bubbles after he eats. I hope this can be popped, too, somehow like the success story at the thread here called, "Incredible inflatable bird (air sac rupture pics)"

I can't take this little fighter to a vet because they will probably destroy him as he'll need constant care they won't be able to give. He's such a fighter & when he wants to eat he's loud & up in the air standing on his own letting us know. Between feedings, though, he seems not able to use his legs that well as I think it may be because he's just so young. At least, I hope that's the reason. They flop at his sides in the most uncomfortable looking way that worries me most of the time. When he wants to scurry under the grass I have in his box or to a corner, he gets there with no problem, though. He just seems so wobbly.

I'm not sure he's even a Robin. He still has fuzz on his head & body with black & grey or white looking pin feathers, like streaks, & his wings have those same feathers & they're covered. Down his back he has those same black & white or maybe it's grey, I can't tell, feathers that look like a mohawk & the rest of him is naked. His tail is square & short. He has yellow on the sides of his beak.

He shoots little sacs of poop out when I feed him. I don't even know if he's a him but he feels like one. Those poops don't seem so little compared to him as they're almost as big as his head. It's white with a black tip in a protective sack, now, that's he's recovered.

He wasn't pooping at first when he was found & it started out just white & runny. No sack.

I looked at pictures on the net but it didn't help me identify his species. I think it's a Robin because I've had him three days & the diet I've been giving him has made him strong so I think I guessed right. I hope I have. I read if you feed them the wrong diet it would be toxic.

I had a very hard time getting hold of anyone at first at the wild life rehab centers & didn't even know we weren't supposed to feed abandoned or injured birds until I got on the net & learned. If I followed that rule, he would have starved by the time I received a call back & died.

I have called every rehab center in my area & some outside, for help, to no avail. Our main expert here in Ohio is Fran Kitchen but she's camping. When I was younger Fran worked with me to educate me in helping injured & abandoned birds but that was 16 years ago so I am rusty & at a loss & no one will help me by giving advice as by law they say they are not allowed.

I spoke this morning to a vet I was referred to & they said I could bring him in, they called it, surrender, but I know they'll euthanize him. If this bubble can't be corrected he won't be released in the wild & I can't bear to take him to the vet knowing his chances will be slim to none to be loved & cared for.

He eats every 45 minutes & I am worn out after three days & nights. My oldest Granddaughter has been helping me but I have the nights to tend to by myself. I have recruited help & they are coming to take shifts.

I would gladly buy a licence just to save this little guy & any others I come across to get past that law if anyone can advise me on this.

He was unresponsive when my son first brought him to me three days ago. He found him, almost, under a bushy pine tree. He had heavy labored breathing & no voice. No chirping until 24 hours later. He could not even sit up. Still doesn't sit that well but is doing better & better.

I first got water in him & he seemed to revive a bit so I could get some pureed worm into him. He's eating chunks now & I smash organic apple & insects my Granddaughter gathers. I just added a bit of tomato & would appreciate any suggestions for his diet. I'm watching his poop carefully so it remains healthy looking & in the sack. The only insects so far are ants as I'm afraid to harm him with flies or mosquitoes.

He seems to be needing fed every 45 minutes as he starts begging so I have been setting an alarm all through the night & I can't wait for the recruits to come. I feed him until he stops opening his mouth & hope I'm not over feeding him. I need help with those bubbles & advice on his diet, please. I can't believe no one will advise me under these circumstances so my hope is in you here who care & are expert.

He's a feisty little guy my Granddaughters call Erwin & all my family & friends are telling me that his only hope is being with us at this point. He looks really gross as the last person stated who just saw him. I could upload a photo I think, so I'll go work on that.
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 4th June 2011, 07:36 PM
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Marsha, I am going out for a bit, but will try and check in before turning in for the night. Does your little one look anything like the bird in the link below? We need to start by you posting up some good, clear photos (like in the link) for us to get a better idea of what's going on and photos of any fresh droppings.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpo...2&postcount=12

Karyn
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November-X-Scourge November-X-Scourge is offline
Posted 4th June 2011, 07:43 PM
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Country: Canada
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Can you post a pic? I don't really know anything about robins, but I'd just like to see exactly what you mean by..err...bubbles... Also, huge poops are pretty normal, I hosted a baby robin "Einstein" who's poops where all about the size of his head too. Einstein liked wet, mushy cat food... since robins are carnivores, worms are good too. Does he have feathers? If he does I might identify him...?
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Jaye Jaye is offline
Posted 4th June 2011, 07:52 PM
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Sounds like airsac rupture...treatable, curable....Baby Robins are small....
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Marsha McClelland Marsha McClelland is offline
Posted 4th June 2011, 08:29 PM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: USA
Location: I live in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio but reside much of the time at my son's to take care of my Grandchildren while he works to have his own business. Computer repair & carpet & upholstery cleaning, power washing etc.
Posts: 18
Oh wow. I didn't expect such fast replies. Thank you all. Yes, Dobato, that's him. Is that a Robin? Erwin's bubbles are more smooth as this one looks a little rugged with cracks. Is that because he was poked, maybe? And Erwin's are equal looking on both sides as if perfect in being identical & flawless as in smooth. He reminds me of a little bird wearing a life perserver.

I am waiting for a friend to come help me upload photos & will post them as soon as I can. His poop is runny again. No sac. Could that be because I'm giving him more water & it may be too much? And after he eats is it okay that he goes right to sleep till the next feeding? I hope. And his breathing is no where near the tragedy it was when I first saw him but sometimes he seems to be breathing a little fast & hard after eating. Could that be because the airsacs are hampering him? I hope not. I fear he may be suffering but he loves to eat so much, I just can't tell.

So then I should add cat food to his diet?

And Jaye. you lifted my heart in hope for the little guy. Thank you so much.

I just got here but already I love you guys.

Yes he has feathers, November, he looks just like the bird in the picture Dobato sent.
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 4th June 2011, 11:26 PM
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,445
Marsha, here are a couple of links that you may find useful:

http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index....ic=8199.5;wap2

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/robin/FAQBabies.html

The cure for a ruptured airsac is to carefully piece the bubble with a sterilized pin to let the air escape, this may need to be done a number of times, over a few days, to allow the tear inside to heal and not inflate, you have to only insert the needle a tiny bit, not deep at all, to release the air, you can very gently push pressure on the bubble to help the air come out. Sometimes they can heal without doing this, but this is generally what is done if the bubbles are interfering with breathing or eating and they also sometimes need to go on antibiotics to help with the healing as instead of a tear it's an infection causing the leak inside (just to know, do you have any antibiotics around the house?). Before doing this, best post up a few photos.

Good luck,

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 4th June 2011 at 11:47 PM..
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 07:17 AM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Might also be aerophagia--he tries so hard to swallow that he ends up swallowing air. In order to get a better handle on that, go read this thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/4-d...ing-52404.html

Pidgey
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Marsha McClelland Marsha McClelland is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 09:56 AM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: USA
Location: I live in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio but reside much of the time at my son's to take care of my Grandchildren while he works to have his own business. Computer repair & carpet & upholstery cleaning, power washing etc.
Posts: 18

erwin the starling


[ATTACH]2.bmp[/ATTACH] this is a fighter for sure!
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File Type: bmp poop.bmp (60.4 KB, 132 views)
File Type: bmp 3.bmp (60.4 KB, 132 views)
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spirit wings spirit wings is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 11:18 AM
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keep him warm with a heating pad on low under the box..
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Marsha McClelland Marsha McClelland is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 12:47 PM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: USA
Location: I live in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio but reside much of the time at my son's to take care of my Grandchildren while he works to have his own business. Computer repair & carpet & upholstery cleaning, power washing etc.
Posts: 18

Update on Erwin


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobato View Post
Marsha, I am going out for a bit, but will try and check in before turning in for the night. Does your little one look anything like the bird in the link below? We need to start by you posting up some good, clear photos (like in the link) for us to get a better idea of what's going on and photos of any fresh droppings.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpo...2&postcount=12

Karyn
I have identified Erwin as a Starling & hope the pictures my friend sent helps to determine if Erwin's air sacs should be popped. I'm so glad I didn't take him to the vet as this species would certainly be destroyed from all I've learned.

Starling's eyes open on the 7th day so he's probably nine days old now.

This is day four, we've had him, & his feathers are almost covering the air sacs, now. At first, there were no feathers & you could just see those sacs. At this rate, by tomorrow, if I'd found him then, I would not have, even, seen those air sacs. His crop is getting feathers, too, so the bubble looking transparency will soon be all gone, too.

Someone here commented that maybe it's normal for Erwin to have these sacs. I hope the picture is clear enough so a good evaluation can be made so I know what to do.

I'm not sure if the air sacs are interfering with his breathing & he's in distress but they certainly are not affecting his eating.

If it's determined the air sacs should be popped should I have antibiotics ready? And what kind or maybe my vet will know when I go there to get them?

His poop picture, sent here, has a lot of black if you can see & before this, white had dominated. Since that picture taken today, it is back to having more white & no black, replaced by brown, the color of the dog food, in the fully secured sac, since I took him off the fishing worms last night. It is a sack, like a tear drop with a lot of black in this picture because we had been feeding him fishing worms as the ones we dug up from the yard, when we first got Erwin, were gone.

We thought it would be easier to just buy them.

In horror, as I read more & more about Starlings, I learned he could get parasites or disease from those fishing worms & immediately stopped giving them to him replacing them with Cesar dog food. The gourmet filets in sauce. I rinse the sauce off in hot water to warm it since I keep it in the fridge & suspect the sauce would not be good for him. He loves it. Actually the little piggy would probably love anything he's such a good eater.

His diet was mostly those fishing worms for almost two twenty four hour cycles so I assume that's why his poop had so much black in that picture & I hope they didn't harm him. Do you think I should get some antibiotics just to be sure he's okay?

Those worms had so much dirt in them I had to wash the bits I cut up & the second day started leaving more of that dirt thinking the Momma bird went from regurgitating to feeding them chunks so some of that dirt would remain.

Thinking it needed nutrition I let him have more of that dirt in my ignorance. When I learned of the potential harm I was scared for Erwin.

I just now fed him, again, as I do every 45 minutes. His poop was in the sack but the end was broken & it leaked a bit. It was leaking the brown color of the really moist dog food, I'd started feeding him last night with bits of tomato & smushed apple. (I also dip the dog food, with tweezers, in water to be sure he's getting enough water. I had been giving him 3 drops each feeding, at first, until I learned he could be harmed by that, too.) His poop did have a trail that tapered off, this last time, like in the picture at this link that is said to be a healthy poop for Starlings;

http://www.starlingtalk.com/babycare.htm

It was that brown same color leaking, that tapered off, & streamed thinly into a spot of brown in the middle of all the white in the sac. About half & half, white & brown, altogether, with those three spots being brown.

I'd send a new picture but my friend's camera died & he doesn't have his charger with him so I have no pictures to show you.

This is the first time I've seen the long black stream tapering off in Erwin's poop like in the picture at that link.

Erwin's has been rounded until now & did not trail off like in that picture before now.

Here's the ingredients in the Cesar dog food I'm feeding him;

Ingredients: Sufficient water for processing, chicken, liver, beef, meat by-products, wheat gluten, starch, pea fiber, salt, minerals (potassium chloride, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide), sodium tripolyphosphate, iron oxide, color added, vitamins (vitamin A, D3, and E supplements, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate [vitamin B1], biotin), new york strip flavor, guar gum, xanthan gum
Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5.6%

Here's what I found among many diets so if you think this will be more healthy for him, I'll switch;

"Handfeeding Mixture for Baby Starlings"

"The handfeeding recipe below supplies a balanced diet for baby starlings. When making the recipe, use an appropriate dry dog food or cat food that has been soaked in water, and remember to be sure that chicken or meat is the first ingredient on the label. Check the avian vitamin package for the right amount of vitamins to use since different vitamins have different recommendations."

Recipe: Handfeeding Mixture

1 cup soaked dog/cat food
1/4 cup of applesauce
1 hard boiled egg
Avian vitamins (follow dosage on package)
Around 750 mg calcium (I use Tums Smooth Dissolve tablet) ground to powder and dissolved in a little water.
Water

Mix all ingredients together, and add enough water to make it the consistency of cooked oatmeal as seen in the photo at right.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd like to keep him on the same dog food I feed my Poms & add vitamins, fruits, veggies or whatever is suggested, if it can be determined that would be good enough for him.

I'm sorry to ask so much of you. I will be glad to make a decent donation to helping our feathered friends to wherever is thought beneficial for the education I'm asking for here. I am so fortunate & glad I have found this forum.

I have contacted two others but so far, it's only been this forum that has helped me.

Love & Thanks,
Marsha
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 02:59 PM
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Posts: 4,445
Marsha, now that you have identified Erwin as a Starling and have found the Starling Talk forum, it may be best to get some guidance from some of the members there who deal with Starlings on a daily basis and see what they think. From the look of it Erwin does have an airsac problem and they can be torn/ruptured or there can be problems with the value system that causes air to leak, most caused by bacteria, that is what the antibiotics would be used to treat, not because you would be piercing the skin with a needle.

I myself have zero experience with Starlings, so I sure wouldn't mind seeing what they think over there would be the best course of action, before making recommendations that might not be correct for your little guy. Please let us know what they say would be best to do and they will certainly be best able to guide you with what to feed and how to feed.

If you feel at anytime he is declining and you have not receive an answer soon there, we'll see what we can do here. I am going to PM Pidgey to have another look in on your thread, as he is a rehabber and may, now that you got the photos up, have an opinion on things. You never did say whether you have any antibiotics on hand, and if so, what kind and what strength.

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 5th June 2011 at 03:22 PM..
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pigeonmama pigeonmama is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 04:08 PM
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Starlings make wonderful pets, and are legal to keep as pets.
Daryl
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 11:10 PM
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Well...

I have had Baby Pigeons and Doves who had the ruptured Air Sacs, and, I just let the matter resolve on it's own, which in these cases, seemed to take about a week or so.

I have never 'popped' one, and would hope I never feel I had to.


Yes, 'Fishing Worms' or 'Earth Worms' are something to avoid.


Fresh ripe Cherries, Bartlet Pear, Apricot...( but remove the skin from the latter two ) are good, and, Cherries are understood to help the youngster/Baby assimilate Calcium and related Bone making and Muscle building nutrients from their normal foods.

Wash hands and fingers VERY well prior to feeding, of course...

One can look around one's area and or ask Audubon people, what wild Berries and other foods or what insects the Starlings are known to eat, and, just pretty well use those.


Here are some images of one I had some years ago...what a sweetie, very bright and very smart too -


http://good-times.webshots.com/album/392687642kCSdWu


Do not attempt to give Water - they get their Hydration form their foods.


I fed this one pre-soaked Goji Berries cut into tiny bites...canned Water Pack two layer Sardines ( the spines and skin mostly but the flesh also ), fresh ripe Cherries...Pear...Elderberries, Mulberries...bits of shredded Cilantro, fresh raw Sushi from a Sushi Bar...palitable Sea Weeds, with the little bites rubbed lightly in some fresh Olive Oil also.


I absolutely distrust ( the inimical Bacterial content of ) 'Meal Worms' and I will not use them.




Phil
Lv

Last edited by pdpbison; 5th June 2011 at 11:17 PM..
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 5th June 2011, 11:39 PM
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More images of the Baby?

Views form the side, from the rear, from the front, and, and from their Eye level and closer.

So far, this really looks a lot more like a Baby Sparrow.
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Marsha McClelland Marsha McClelland is offline
Posted 6th June 2011, 07:28 AM
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Location: I live in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio but reside much of the time at my son's to take care of my Grandchildren while he works to have his own business. Computer repair & carpet & upholstery cleaning, power washing etc.
Posts: 18
Thanks for all the tips, guys. I loved seeing the pictures of the Starling, pdpbison. I'm not able to add pictures right now until my friend comes back but I agree as I looked up pictures of baby sparrows that he is one. And I would rather let the air sacs resolve themselves without popping, if I can. One is barely visible now that his feathers are covering him. I am almost ready to head out for antibiotics my vet said I could come get. He knows I have a bird & I hope he gives me the correct antibiotic & dose for the little guy. Going on five days now so I hope so much he makes it. No one would tell me anything that I called for help as they said by law they couldn't so I messed up. I gave him water & worry pneumonia will set in & the worms I gave him, I read last night I wouldn't know if he was harmed for up to 5 or 6 days. I am still frantic over this bird. Any advise on the antibiotics I'm going to get? I'll be leaving as soon as I can but it will be at leasy an hour. I was going to pick up some meal worms for him but now I won't & would like to know, considering he's a Sparrow, what can I pick up that would be good for his diet in the way of insects so he gets enough protein? I am still giving him Cesar dog food, tomatoes & apples. I gave him a blueberry this morning. I'm relieved he's not a Starling as much as having one intrigues me. I was considering the commitment & the fact I'm not in very good health so I began worrying what would happen to him if something happened to me. My family could care for a Sparrow but I don't know if they would be able to meet the constant needs of a Starling. I need to find a Sparrow forum now but in the meantime would really appreciate any further help I can get here.
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