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Howl Howl is offline
Posted 13th June 2018, 09:29 PM
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Bayer's Baytril vs. generic Enrofloxacin for pigeons


Hi all. From what I've read on this forum as well as Melbournevet, the recommended treatment time for salmonella using Enrofloxacin is 10-14 days. However according to Bayer's Baytril instruction, the medicine should be used for 3-5 days only. I am wondering if there's something particular about Bayer's Baytril that makes the recommended treatment time shortens so much, and whether it's better to use it or the ones made for pigeons. I would appreciate if you could share your knowledge on this matter. Thanks.
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Jay3 Jay3 is offline
Posted 14th June 2018, 09:34 PM
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Howl, where did you find the advice for 3 to 5 days? Giving either would be the same med, and usually treatment is for 10 days just like other antibiotics. However for salmonella, they used to say 2 weeks to cure the carrier stage. Then they realized that 2 weeks didn't always do it, and changed it to 3 weeks to get rid of the carrier stage of salmonella. If not treated for long enough, the symptoms may leave, but the bird still carries it and can shed it off and on (called the carrier stage), and can that way infect other pigeons.
Also, while on Baytril or any other Enrofloxacin or antibiotic, they may likely get a yeast infection, so treating with Nystatin or similar is a very good idea, while treating with the antibiotic. Baytril is known for causing that.
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Posted 14th June 2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
Howl, where did you find the advice for 3 to 5 days? Giving either would be the same med, and usually treatment is for 10 days just like other antibiotics. However for salmonella, they used to say 2 weeks to cure the carrier stage. Then they realized that 2 weeks didn't always do it, and changed it to 3 weeks to get rid of the carrier stage of salmonella. If not treated for long enough, the symptoms may leave, but the bird still carries it and can shed it off and on (called the carrier stage), and can that way infect other pigeons.
Also, while on Baytril or any other Enrofloxacin or antibiotic, they may likely get a yeast infection, so treating with Nystatin or similar is a very good idea, while treating with the antibiotic. Baytril is known for causing that.
Hi Jay3, thanks for replying, I am really baffled by this. The statement that Bayer's Baytril should be given for 3-5 days is by Bayer itself, I found that on the official Vietnamese website of Baytril. You can also read it here, at the end of the page:
https://www.baytril.com/en/farm-animals/product/oral/

Info from some reseller websites that are consistent with what I've found on the Vietnamese website:
http://www.glovet.com/our-products/b...oral-solution/
https://www.petmed360.com/products/b...rum-antibiotic

Bayer is a major manufacturer of animal farm drugs it would be a surprise if they provide a wrong instruction of their own products. But because it contradicts every other sources I know in this matter, I am wondering if it's different from other pigeon meds somehow, and if it would be too harsh for a pigeon to be given it for more than 5 days as instructed.

About Nystatin, do you think it's ok to give it in drinking water considering that it's pretty safe, and that by giving in water the medicine is in the crop for longer time?
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Posted 15th June 2018, 08:29 AM
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Howl, I don't know about that info you are finding. But I even read on one of them that for salmonella, to give it for 5 days. That's crazy. Formularies for pigeons will say 10 days. That is what works, and longer for salmonella. Maybe they are older info. People used to give it in 2 doses daily also, but then Bayer said that it works better in 1 whole dose daily, because it works in a different way then many other antibiotics, but you still see many sights that still say twice daily. So I'm not going to even try to explain the different info. And Enro is Enro, regardless of the brand.

As far as giving the Medistatin in the water, when you do it that way, you can't be sure of how much the bird got. Unless treating a flock, you are better to treat individually and know how much the bird actually got.
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Howl Howl is offline
Posted 16th June 2018, 06:44 AM
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Thank you Jay3, I will go with the 2-3 week duration then if my birds need treatment.
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Posted 16th June 2018, 01:54 PM
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Are you sure it is salmonella?
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Posted 16th June 2018, 09:12 PM
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I was asking just to be prepared. I cannot know for sure what they have without doing fecal culture, but I think if I am giving them Baytril anyway, it's better to add those extra days just in case.

My birds sometimes have dark, green, usually firm droppings for 5-7 days, during which they will eat about 20% less feed than usual. I give them probiotics and ACV and the color will shift toward brown, but after 5-10 days they become green again. I don't want treat them blindly but it looks like the situation can get worse any time.

Last edited by Howl; 16th June 2018 at 09:21 PM..
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Posted 16th June 2018, 10:48 PM
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You can't go by the droppings. They can change often from many things other than illness. If they were sick with salmonella, they would get very ill. It's not a good idea to medicate unless you know they need the med. Otherwise you are just weakening their immune system and causing the bacteria to build a resistance to the drug. Only medicate when really needed.
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Posted 17th June 2018, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay3 View Post
If they were sick with salmonella, they would get very ill.
Thank you for this piece of info, I did not know it. Usually websites on pigeon diseases only list the signs, not their severity.

As for medication, I will also look out for their behavior changes, not just relying on bad droppings. Right now they are eating a bit less than usual and looking a bit unkempt but unless their condition get worse or prolonged, I will not medicate them. Though honestly I am nervous whether I do or not. On the one hand, many people say that birds hide their sickness very well and if they are visibly ill they are actually very ill already. On the other, I hate the idea of having to give them too many medicines at a time even without knowing what's making them ill.
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Posted 18th June 2018, 10:16 AM
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You can never go by the droppings alone, as that changes all the time. Rather it is in how they are eating and drinking, how they look, are acting, then the droppings.

It's true that they do try to appear okay even when sick, and by the time they are looking really sick, they are really sick. But in knowing your birds and watching them, it is pretty easy to see if they are acting off.
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Posted 18th June 2018, 09:12 PM
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You can never go by the droppings alone, as that changes all the time. Rather it is in how they are eating and drinking, how they look, are acting, then the droppings.
Yes that's what I meant in the previous posts, they are eating less than usual, one is staying in the nest more than she normally does and the other is looking unkempt. This has happened a few times recently, that's why I was asking about drug usage to be prepared.
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Posted 19th June 2018, 09:31 AM
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Yes, I understand. Was just saying that the droppings are the last of the things I would look at. I don't see where salmonella comes from. Why would they have salmonella when them being off could be so many things? Unless I had a good reason to believe it was salmonella, then I wouldn't treat for that length of time. Baytril is wide spectrum, which is good, but can also wreak havoc with their immunity and good gut bacteria, which often causes yest infections.
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Posted 19th June 2018, 10:06 AM
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I got your point and am grateful that you told me that I've tried reading about pigeon diseases from different sources and don't know why that particular info, that when they have salmonella they are very ill, escapes me. Usually people only talk about they are lethargic, fluffing up, eating less etc, and those symptoms can be present with any kind of sickness it's hard to guess what they have or are unlikely to have.

I read on some thread here that with non-specific symptoms you should try to treat only for canker first and use antibiotics only if they don't improve after a few days. Do you think it's a good approach? Is it common for canker to be the primary disease for pet pigeons (i.e not live in a crowded loft with new pigeons coming often)?
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Posted 19th June 2018, 10:55 AM
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You would try to think of the most common things first. Those would be canker, cocci, worms. It can be other things of course, but with birds kept inside without interaction with other birds, that does narrow it down more. Yeast can be another one. Some things they do carry, and when stressed the levels will rise and cause illness. Some things are just in the environment. So look at the symptoms and see if it sounds like one of the more common ailments. Canker is pretty common. It can take more than a few days to see results when treated though. When you start any treatment, then you should finish it.
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Posted 20th June 2018, 08:06 AM
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Canker is pretty common. It can take more than a few days to see results when treated though. When you start any treatment, then you should finish it.
Does not Dr Colin Walker say on his website that one sign a pigeon has canker is that it responds strongly to a canker med? In your experience, usually how long does it take to know if we are going the right direction?

Could you please let me know the dosage of Ronidazole that you use? I looked for it on the internet but some people suggest 12.5 mg/kg body weight while some other use up to 25 mg for an average pigeon a day.

I have human Nystatin tablets 500.000 IU, do you think it can be used for the birds, quartered? Otherwise I have fluconazole for poultry but it's more rough on their system.
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