On the "Ethics" of Returning a Banded Bird to His/Her "Owner" - Pigeon-Talk
Pigeon-Talk  
Go Back   Pigeon-Talk > Pigeons & People > General Discussions

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
nancyandcleo nancyandcleo is offline
Posted 3rd October 2013, 11:13 AM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52

On the "Ethics" of Returning a Banded Bird to His/Her "Owner"


Because there are so many people who, having found a lost, sick, and/or injured (and sometimes already dead) banded pigeon, come here seeking advice, and because there are plenty of people here who tell them that the right thing to do is to return the birds to their owners if possible, I'm going to post the alternative view here, in the interest of being "fair and balanced."

It's a blog post I wrote after the last time I found a banded pigeon (who subsequently died). I originally posted it within the thread I started about the bird in the "I found a pigeon or dove" forum, but that post will no doubt drop off the radar fairly quickly, so I hoped that it would be more likely to be seen here.

Once I post it, I will have said my peace, and I will not be drawn in to debate about it. I can assure you that there is no argument that will change my mind, and that no "percentage" of lost birds that is small enough to make me think that it's "OK." One, as far as I'm concerned, is too many. And if someone claims that I don't know enough about pigeon-racing or dove-release to "understand", I will simply respond that I understand very well what I (and others) find injured, dying or dead on the ground.

Here's the post:
http://holdingbreathmemoir.wordpress...o-t-bird-post/
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
newday newday is offline
Posted 3rd October 2013, 05:58 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 478

Returning lost


Over the years I have come across stray racing homers or white release homers. Sometimes the owners took them back and other times they refused them, even when I offered to deliver them. I have always found it disturbing that these birds were seen as disposable.

I doubt society would be as forgiving if someone refused to collect their dogs that happened to get lost or were not good hunters..
re lee re lee is offline
Posted 3rd October 2013, 06:04 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: enid okla
Posts: 4,198
An effert should be made to find the owner. Sometimes it is not easy. And often Many never try. They just keep the bird and never say anything. Sure some owners will not come get there bird. And others will.
 
MaryOfExeter's Avatar
MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 3rd October 2013, 11:17 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 11,457
I would be extremely upset if someone found my bird and kept it without ever telling me. For that reason, I don't give a crap how many times I am told "keep it", "let it go", "kill it" (haven't heard that one yet), or how many times I can't even find or get a hold of the owner. I will still try. I owe it to people like me who DO care about their lost birds.
__________________
Becky M. L.
RKM Lofts | RKM Art

"It is not only fine feathers that make fine birds." - Aesop

~Semper Fidelis~
Mama Birdie's Avatar
Mama Birdie Mama Birdie is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 12:36 AM
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Location: central Texas (Florence, TX)
Posts: 37
Thumbs down

Love my birds & would want them back


I definitely care about my birds, otherwise I wouldn't bother to band them or do any record keeping. Putting a band on a bird is like putting a collar and tags on a dog.

Because I care about my birds, I also allow them to free-fly, which they love and is so good for them, mentally & physically. I have also gone through the time and expense of getting, training & maintaining guard dogs for my birds that even keep hawks and owls at bay. One dog has actually grabbed a hawk twice! Both times it got away but he got the keep the feathers as a souvenir and was quite proud of himself--and so was I. :-) I would be miserable if I could never leave the house and could only watch the world go by out the windows or screened porch. How depressing! I feel like that is how it is for pigeons that stay cooped up all the time. So it is a quality of life issue for me to let them free-fly on our farm. While there is always risk, I have taken precautions (banding the birds, having guard dogs, branches over the loft for them to get under) and feel that they are safe.

My birds know where they live and tend to fly back to the top of their pen (among the overhanging/protective tree branches) when there is a threat. But if one was ever chased and got lost, I would DEFINATELY want it back! And when I sell a young bird, I keep record of who purchased it so that I can contact them, just in case.

My white homers (I have other breeds too) are not "release birds" and I would feel horrible if someone assumed they were and did not return a them. What if it had babies that needed it? What if it's mate is looking for it? What if it was one of my daughter's favorites? What if it was the little booger that flies and lands on my head every time I go in the loft? Or the one that has to fight with my pant leg? Or the one that lands on my arm when he is free-flying to ask for treats? Or the one that always has to be the first to drink when I refresh the water? Or . . .

If you find a bird, PLEASE make every effort possible to contact the owner. If they don't want the bird, then at least you know you did what is right and your conscience is clear. But until you talk to the owner, you don't know the whole story. A very small percentage of people who have pigeons race or do event releases. Most are pets kept for pure enjoyment and love.

And what would the bird want? To go home. Home to it's flock. Home to it's mate. Home to the place it knows, the place ingrained in it's mind.
__________________
[CENTER][B]White Garden Fantails
Colored & White Frillbacks
White Homing Pigeons[B][CENTER]
nancyandcleo nancyandcleo is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:00 AM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
I'm afraid some people are missing my point, which boils down, I guess, to the ethics of pigeon-racing and "dove" release--not so much about whether the owners want the birds back or not. As I said on my reply to a comment on the blog-post, I can understand that some people have flocks who need exercise, and may let them out NEARBY to get exercise. Those birds have a much better chance of returning home.

It's a different thing entirely when people (for "fun", profit, or both) release birds FAR FROM HOME (the bird I recently found had been released 80 miles away, and from what I understand many racers and some birds released for weddings, etc., are released much farther away than that). Once a bird is lost in unfamiliar surroundings, and doesn't know how to get food or water, and is prey to predators animal and human alike (and is probably panicking too), what's going to become of him or her? People who put birds they "care about" into those kinds of situations, and who, if someone is kind enough to take the bird in and take care of it, still want them back, will in all likelihood only release them (and many others) into the same situation again. THAT'S why I wouldn't return a racer. The "sport" itself is inhumane and unethical, and I wouldn't send a bird I found back to be used like that again.

I did say that I wouldn't be drawn into debate, but I just wanted to clarify what I was talking about, as people seemed to be trying to make it about something else.
re lee re lee is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:38 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: enid okla
Posts: 4,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyandcleo View Post
I'm afraid some people are missing my point, which boils down, I guess, to the ethics of pigeon-racing and "dove" release--not so much about whether the owners want the birds back or not. As I said on my reply to a comment on the blog-post, I can understand that some people have flocks who need exercise, and may let them out NEARBY to get exercise. Those birds have a much better chance of returning home.

It's a different thing entirely when people (for "fun", profit, or both) release birds FAR FROM HOME (the bird I recently found had been released 80 miles away, and from what I understand many racers and some birds released for weddings, etc., are released much farther away than that). Once a bird is lost in unfamiliar surroundings, and doesn't know how to get food or water, and is prey to predators animal and human alike (and is probably panicking too), what's going to become of him or her? People who put birds they "care about" into those kinds of situations, and who, if someone is kind enough to take the bird in and take care of it, still want them back, will in all likelihood only release them (and many others) into the same situation again. THAT'S why I wouldn't return a racer. The "sport" itself is inhumane and unethical, and I wouldn't send a bird I found back to be used like that again.

I did say that I wouldn't be drawn into debate, but I just wanted to clarify what I was talking about, as people seemed to be trying to make it about something else.
What you are saying is just your view. There are many thousands of people that either race or train there birds to return home. . As you should know. NATURE itself is cruel. And nature is what any bird animal ECT is in when they are in the free area of nature. And An unseen aspect to pigeons is there abilty to allways get home. I read your blog on the pigeon you found. NOW looking at another side. You did not seek help for the bird. You never said you inspected it for any injury. You never thought more then to put the blame on the owner. Now perhaps If you had took it to a vet would it be alive today. SEE where I am going People look for blame to feed there ego. If you find a lost pigeon you should at least try to contact the owner. You can believe as you wish. But perhaps you are the one who is being cruel.
spirit wings spirit wings is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:40 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 20,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyandcleo View Post
I'm afraid some people are missing my point, which boils down, I guess, to the ethics of pigeon-racing and "dove" release--not so much about whether the owners want the birds back or not. As I said on my reply to a comment on the blog-post, I can understand that some people have flocks who need exercise, and may let them out NEARBY to get exercise. Those birds have a much better chance of returning home.

It's a different thing entirely when people (for "fun", profit, or both) release birds FAR FROM HOME (the bird I recently found had been released 80 miles away, and from what I understand many racers and some birds released for weddings, etc., are released much farther away than that). Once a bird is lost in unfamiliar surroundings, and doesn't know how to get food or water, and is prey to predators animal and human alike (and is probably panicking too), what's going to become of him or her? People who put birds they "care about" into those kinds of situations, and who, if someone is kind enough to take the bird in and take care of it, still want them back, will in all likelihood only release them (and many others) into the same situation again. THAT'S why I wouldn't return a racer. The "sport" itself is inhumane and unethical, and I wouldn't send a bird I found back to be used like that again.

I did say that I wouldn't be drawn into debate, but I just wanted to clarify what I was talking about, as people seemed to be trying to make it about something else.
I think it would of been less trouble to state you are against pigeon racing and white dove release from the start, instead of this long melodramatic bull crap. at least we would of known where you are coming from. this forum has allot of these people meaning hobbiest here, so Im not sure if PT is going to be your spot to tell all this. I could be offended but Im not that simple minded to let others affect my day.

Last edited by spirit wings; 4th October 2013 at 08:51 AM..
nancyandcleo nancyandcleo is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:48 AM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by re lee View Post
What you are saying is just your view. There are many thousands of people that either race or train there birds to return home. . As you should know. NATURE itself is cruel. And nature is what any bird animal ECT is in when they are in the free area of nature. And An unseen aspect to pigeons is there abilty to allways get home. I read your blog on the pigeon you found. NOW looking at another side. You did not seek help for the bird. You never said you inspected it for any injury. You never thought more then to put the blame on the owner. Now perhaps If you had took it to a vet would it be alive today. SEE where I am going People look for blame to feed there ego. If you find a lost pigeon you should at least try to contact the owner. You can believe as you wish. But perhaps you are the one who is being cruel.
Nice try, but if you read the thread you will see that you are wrong. And the bird died soon after I brought her in, and before I had a chance to get her to the vet. I've saved MANY birds in the past, and I generally know what I'm doing, and I do care. That's why I'm here (and why I've been coming here since probably around 2001)
.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/be...ida-70738.html
nancyandcleo nancyandcleo is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:53 AM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyandcleo View Post
Nice try, but if you read the thread you will see that you are wrong. And the bird died soon after I brought her in, and before I had a chance to get her to the vet. I've saved MANY birds in the past, and I generally know what I'm doing, and I do care. That's why I'm here (and why I've been coming here since probably around 2001)
.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/be...ida-70738.html
If you read the "melodramatic bull crap" in the blog post I included a link to, you'd see that I specifically talk about pigeon-racing and dove-release in it. I kind of expected people to read it before they responded. Attacking me because I care seems beneath you.

As I said previously, I've been coming to PT since about 2001, to get help for the MANY birds I've brought in and tried to help. Some made it, and some didn't. And, as it says in the blog post, I think that PT is a wonderful place, and I've gotten a lot of help from really caring people. I'm not attacking the people here. I'm stating, as you say, my "melodramatic" opinion that it's cruel to send domesticated birds far from home into the wild and "hope" they'll make it back. I don't understand why you would find that so offensive that you would attack me like that and say that I shouldn't be saying it on PT. If it's become a place where only the most popular opinions can be expressed without fear of attack or censorship, then it's changed a great deal and that's sad.
spirit wings spirit wings is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:54 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 20,303
I have reported this thread. I know it is going to cause hard feelings among the members.
nancyandcleo nancyandcleo is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 08:59 AM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit wings View Post
I have reported this thread. I know it is going to cause hard feelings among the members.
The members who think that pigeon-racing is a fine and noble and cruelty-free "sport." God forbid anyone see things differently.
spirit wings spirit wings is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 09:01 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 20,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyandcleo View Post
The members who think that pigeon-racing is a fine and noble and cruelty-free "sport." God forbid anyone see things differently.
I think you should go to PETA sites and spew there. see Im already getting mad. congratz to you.
norwich norwich is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 09:08 AM
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Good ol' USA
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
Well said Spirit Wings.
Skyeking's Avatar
Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 4th October 2013, 01:23 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 25,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyandcleo View Post
The members who think that pigeon-racing is a fine and noble and cruelty-free "sport." God forbid anyone see things differently.
You gave us your opinion and that is all it is. No one is attacking you because you care. We all care about lost pigeons here, and not every person in the sport is unfeeling and irresponsible for their lost birds.

Anyone who finds a lost racing pigeon should make every attempt to find its home-that is the ethical thing to do , and if it can't be found, fine....find a home, or if the other refuses to come get the bird, has no desire to help the bird, well the bird is better off with the finder.

Discussing a subject of this matter is volatile and causing hard feelings among members partially because of the manner you use to express your opinion. You are breaking forum rules and I am authorized to close this thread.

Here are the forum rules: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f125/p...use-67554.html




__________________

Last edited by Skyeking; 4th October 2013 at 01:27 PM..
Closed Thread

Tags
banded birds, homing pigeons, racing pigeons

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2000-2016 pigeons.biz