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Reti's Avatar
Reti Reti is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 11:15 AM
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Alice not well again


This is the big white King pigeon that had the post egg-laying paralysis back in January.
She stopped laying altogether. She is 8 now. Might be her age.
Today I noticed again that she won't stand and I took a look at her. Both her knee joints are swollen, they are huge and feel nodular. Also her one toe where it joins the foot is swollen and continues to get worse.
She looks unwell and tries not to stand.
She is on a heating pad and that is all I can think of right now, I did give her a garlic capsule and put topically Allicidin.
She is eating and drinking and poops are ok but she lost 90gr from when I last weighed her.
I am thinking of gout, but not sure how it manifests in birds, she doesn't have any tophi.

I took some pics, but they are not that good. When Lee gets back I will try to get some better ones.

Reti

Last edited by Reti; 19th January 2008 at 07:07 PM..
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pigeonperson
Posted 14th March 2007, 11:20 AM
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Reti,
It's hard to tell anything from the pictures but if it's gout, you should be seeing yellowish deposits in those joints.
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Reti Reti is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 11:36 AM
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I know the pics are not the best. I don't see any yellow deposits.

Reti
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pigeonperson
Posted 14th March 2007, 12:13 PM
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Reti,
What would some of the other possibilities be? Arthriitis or even a bacterial arthritis? Total kidney failure? Why the weight loss? Because she's in pain so her appetite is down? She would need a blood workup.
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Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 12:31 PM
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Reti,

I'm sorry to hear about Alice, e-mail me if you want me to recommend some stuff.

Is she still seperated from her mate, or back with him?



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Last edited by Skyeking; 14th March 2007 at 12:37 PM..
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jazaroo jazaroo is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 01:46 PM
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Hi Reti,

I am sorry to hear Alice is have some troubles.

I was just reading about gout in Clinical Avian Medicine and Surgery, Harrison & Harrison and it says that birds with suspected gout should be placed on antibiotic therapy, does not say which, but I suspect that Baytril would be a good choice. Also, it says that gout medicine, Allopurinol, has been used with varying results.

Reti, I would try the Baytril and if this did not prove effective I would then try Doxycycline or Minocycline as both of these drugs are known for their tissue penetration and are the drugs that people who are trying antibiotic therapy for RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis) use against the Mycoplasma than some feel is the causative pathogen.

Ron

Last edited by jazaroo; 14th March 2007 at 01:50 PM..
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mr squeaks mr squeaks is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 01:56 PM
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HI Reti!

Darn, I'm so sorry to hear about Alice! So stressful since they can't talk English and we don't always understand pigeonese!

I tend to be a natural product advocate personally. Of course, nothing beats tests that could possible pinpoint the basic problem and then go from there!

SENDING HEALING HUGS AND THOUGHTS to YOU BOTH!!

I know you will keep us updated!
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Reti Reti is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 02:20 PM
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Thank you for your input.
I emailed my vet, hope I can take her in tomorrow, or at least p/up some meds. I don't have Baytril. And doxy I think I have some, but must look for it, I am not sure.
I saw her eat every day. She hasn't touched her grit though for days. So, I don't know why she lost all that weight. Last time I weighted her in January, so I don't even know in how much time she lost all that weight.
She is separated from her mate and she loves the heating pad, but hasn't eaten in her cage yet. I just gave her some water for now.
She also seems to breathe open mouthed. She looks pretty sick.
I am not sure but I think her one eye has some yellow discharge.
I guess it could be bacterial arthritis or paratyphoid (I hope not), don't think osteoarthritis though, cause the onset is too acute.

Reti

Last edited by Reti; 14th March 2007 at 02:27 PM..
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jazaroo jazaroo is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 02:25 PM
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Well, Reti from the sounds of it I would find the Doxy and start her on this until you vet can see her, there will be no conflict if he switches her to the Baytril.

Ron
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 02:29 PM
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Count the resting respiration rate. If it's 30, then the respiratory is probably upper. If it's definitely higher, then you're looking at lower respiratory or anemia. Get out the stethoscope (preferably a pediatric one) and listen over the sides of the back up near the elbows.

Pidgey
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Reti Reti is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 03:36 PM
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I have doxy 500mg. How much do I give her?
Also counting her respirations is impossible. When I go near her she starts hyperventilating and grunting as for the stetoscope, forget it.

Reti
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Reti Reti is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 04:01 PM
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I was able to count her respirations, 28 breaths/min.
I see now why she has her beak a little open, her jaw joint is swelling. I am totally panicked now.
What do I give her, cipro or doxy?

Reti
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jazaroo jazaroo is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 04:14 PM
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Hi Reti,

You know what Reti, if you have Cipro I would go with that, 2-2.5mg per 100gm BID. For the Doxycycline, 8-12mg per lb. BID. I would start at the higher range. I am thinking if this is somehow Paratyphoid you will be better of with the Cipro, plus it will cover many of the respiratory pathogens. Pidgey's your man for respirations/min., but this does not sound too bad to me. According to this http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/...0358-p0365.pdf it is in normal range.

Ron

Last edited by jazaroo; 14th March 2007 at 04:36 PM..
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Reti Reti is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 05:52 PM
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Well, I can't find the Cipro, I guess I am out of it. I need to go through my medicine cabinet soon and see what I have and what I need to order. But I do have tons of doxy.
Still no reply from my vet, I hope he is not on vacation.

Reti
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jazaroo jazaroo is offline
Posted 14th March 2007, 06:01 PM
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Well start the Doxy and lets see what happens tomorrow.

Ron
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