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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 29th May 2019, 09:21 AM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
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Baby Pigeon needs help


Hi There..
Im a new to this forum, and I found my way here by looking for help for this baby pigeon.

This healthy baby pigeon about 12-15 days old has suddenly lost appetite, and seems to be sleeping all of today.

Background.
One morning, I left an empty box with foos (which originally had mangoes), in the balcony of my apartment, and when I returned back home, I saw a pigeon sit in it. I decided not to bother it, and let it be.
Next morning I got a closer look, and found the Pigeon laid 2 eggs.

So I decided to leave some water in a bowl and rice with yellow lentils in another bowl. Same evening I bought a pack of Bird Pellet mix, essentially green and red millets, some tiny black things, oats and some pink and green clay like things.

All seemed well - a week passed, one egg hatched.. and the mother was protective about her child and would rarely leave the box. I kept arranging for bird mix, with rice and lentils in a small dish across the box with a separate bowl for water.

A week later, I realised this baby grew up pretty quick while the other egg didnt hatch yet. Now the mother would no longer sleep at night in the box.. instead a few feet away from it. Every morning when I went to leave water and food, the baby would notice me come, and try to Peck me Bite me.. it was adorable!
I didnt think too much of it, and ensured the daily arrangement of food and water.

> After about 10 days, I read an article on FB of Viruses, Bacterias and especially parasites in dry pigeon poop are critically dangerous to humans as they affect the respiratory tract and keep latent for prolonged periods eventually resulting in all sorts of diseases.
Yes I decided to do something about it. It was my day off from work, and i went to the balcony.. I noticed the mother had flown out.. I saw the box, there was a hell lot of dried bird poop there. I lifted the baby and the un-hatched egg, and kept them in the other end of the balcony.. while I changed the foos in the box, cleant the box.. and cleant the flooring around it with disinfectants.

While doing this, the mother came by and noticed the destroyed nest.. and baby not to be seen.. hovered a bit and flew away.

> THIS WAS A BIG MISTAKE!!!

I setup everything .. put the baby in the box.. but unfortunately stamped the other egg.. which released some horrible fluid and very strong and nasty odour. I quickly wiped the fluid, and packed the egg in a plastic bag.. and discarded it.

Now, the mother didnt return that night.
I was concerned about the baby.. and didnt know what to feed it. I took it close to the pellets and water but it refused to eat or drink. I tried for some time but nothing worked.
As it was getting late, eventually ...
> I bought some rice flour and Lentil flour from the super-market, made a paste of it in water.. and put it down the babys throat with a giant dropper.

> I repeated this the next morning as well, and left for work. I realsed the rice powder quickly solidified on the babys beak and was quite hard.. so I decided not to use it any more.

> That evening, I force-fed the baby with rice by opening its beak with my fingers and dropping few grains at a time.

> Next morning I noticed the mother was back.. but wasnt feeding the baby. Wasnt even going near the child. The baby pigeon klept on squeaking to its mother continously, but she didnt feed him.. and flew off.

Since force-feeding grains was very time consuming, I decided to defrost some peas .. and try feeding the baby with it.. but it didnt eat or drink anything readily.. I had to open its beak.. dump a pea in and shut.
I mustve forced in about 8-10 peas, 4-6 pieces of diced carrots, and few corn kernels as wel..

> that evening, mother not to be seen, I decided to feed it with chopped apple (without skin). Must have fed it with about 1 TBSP until it looked away walked away.
i left it back in the box.

> this morning, the mother returned, pecked her food, and flew away.. ignoring the child. However, the baby pigeon has been quiet and sleepy since morning today and didnt even call out to its mother. the mother has retuned many times, but neither have attempted to ask out.

Soemthing seems strange and I dont know what to interpret.

I have my day off, and I have made a video of this baby pigeon (linked), and a pic of its latest poop.
From what I see, it has no Canker.

Also I did notice it do something strange.. It looked down, and SHAKED ITS REAR quite a few times.. then stopped. Did this two times .. (very similar to what a dog does while trying to poop, instead shaking its rear).

P.S > im in abu dhabi, and trying to reach out to vets as I post this.

video Link to baby :
https://youtu.be/CnGIEZzjIO4

Poop pic 1: http://www.imagebam.com/image/053e7c1236586514


Poop pic 2: http://www.imagebam.com/image/c626321236586574


Poop Pic 3:http://www.imagebam.com/image/559ee61236613284

Last edited by birdtalk; 29th May 2019 at 09:51 AM.. Reason: Changed from Vimeo to Youtube
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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 29th May 2019, 10:07 AM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81

Here - video of shaking its rear


Here is a video of it shaking its rear.

Doesnt do it often.. but does it.

https://youtu.be/gDYlQnVRntU

I think its constipated. im not sure what to do.
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 29th May 2019, 11:12 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
You should have waited for the baby to fledge and then you could have cleaned up the area. Pigeon droppings can't make a human sick. Can you get hold of unsweetened baby applesauce? Dilute with some warm water and feed this to him. Gently massage the crop afterwards to get things going again. Do this for a day or 2 and wait till the crop is completely empty. Then you can continue with only the defrosted soft peas. He will need 30 peas 3 times daily, total of 90 peas.
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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 29th May 2019, 01:50 PM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina B View Post
You should have waited for the baby to fledge and then you could have cleaned up the area. Pigeon droppings can't make a human sick. Can you get hold of unsweetened baby applesauce? Dilute with some warm water and feed this to him. Gently massage the crop afterwards to get things going again. Do this for a day or 2 and wait till the crop is completely empty. Then you can continue with only the defrosted soft peas. He will need 30 peas 3 times daily, total of 90 peas.
Yes I realised I made a mistake by cleaning up. Stupid facebook posts!
I will try to find the unsweetened applesauce.

Did you watch the second video. Why does it shake like that ? Its a bit concerning everytime it does that.

Also why wont it eat by itself, doesnt even show any joy when shown food.
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 29th May 2019, 10:46 PM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
Looks like he is trying to vomit, but can't. You will need to get the crop emty. Is there no avian vet where you can take him?

He is much too young to eat by himself. The food inside his crop is not digesting, thats why he won't get excited about being fed.
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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 07:29 AM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina B View Post
Looks like he is trying to vomit, but can't. You will need to get the crop emty. Is there no avian vet where you can take him?

He is much too young to eat by himself. The food inside his crop is not digesting, thats why he won't get excited about being fed.
Thankyou for your response.

1) took him to 3 vets.
First one straight away yelled at me for getting a pigeon to him, calling it a bag of diseases, and wanted to report me to the cops.

Second one looked at it for a few seconds and suggested Poop Culture tests to be done, for 8 days.. collecting its poop 3 times a day and manually taking it to them every day..
It'll cost me about USD180 per test. And only after that he wil be in a position to say anything.
So that did not work out.

Third one wanted to put it to sleep immediately, as he was confident its infected with some deadly virus, and could potentially kill all the birds in the city.
He said these are the early symptoms of HPV or some thing. I didnt pay too much heed to it, and ran away with the birdie.

2) just got home.. and was starting to feed it peas. And I noticed this.

Picture : http://www.imagebam.com/image/d56e501237192314



Please tell me this is Canker. And its popped up just today. Since I had looked inside its mouth yesterday, this wasnt there.

Also, Now what should I do to make it better?
I just want it to Be happy, healthy and Fly one day!

I really hope and pray for the same.
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 09:00 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
Oh these horrible vets. First of all, don't feed him more food until the crop is empty. Only the baby applesauce. If you keep on adding more food, everything will just rot inside and he will die.

It might be canker, won't hurt to treat him for that. Try to get Meditrich by Medpet. He will need about 30-40 mg once daily for 7-10 days. It comes in 100 mg tablet, so you can just split them into the right size and feed to him.

Thanks for not letting them put him down. But for now, only applesauce until the crop is empty.
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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 12:55 PM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina B View Post
Oh these horrible vets. First of all, don't feed him more food until the crop is empty. Only the baby applesauce. If you keep on adding more food, everything will just rot inside and he will die.

It might be canker, won't hurt to treat him for that. Try to get Meditrich by Medpet. He will need about 30-40 mg once daily for 7-10 days. It comes in 100 mg tablet, so you can just split them into the right size and feed to him.

Thanks for not letting them put him down. But for now, only applesauce until the crop is empty.
Thankyou for responding.
Its a cruel planet! Especially where I am right now.

Till you could respond, I did some reading online on these forums.
Since its a holiday for 3 days from tomorrow, all will reopen on Monday.

The best I could arrange is Metronidazole 500mg meant for humans, as any other antibiotic requires prescription and I wont be getting help from any doc until Monday.

I split this tab in 10 parts and shaved some off each part. So each piece is roughly around 25-35mg.

Now im not an expert, but I found some probiotic powder meant for babies, and I put some in 1 tbsp of warm water and gave it along with the metro tab about 3hrs ago.

And I just received your message.

Questions:

1) what do I feed it now that its on Medication ? How much ? How often ?

2) I have arranged for two small bottles of warm water, and placed them around him and covered half the box with a towel.

3) Is there anything else in terms of meds I should arrange ? Supplements ?
Multi-vit, fishoil ? etc
Probiotic options ? Greek yogurt ? Cider vinegar?

4)I bought some organic apple puree as this was the only sugar free option.. every applesauce out there has atleast 30-50% sugar.
How do I feed it apple-puree? how much ? how often?

5) rice powder? cereals? rice? lentils.. ? anything to be fed ?

6) anything else I should be thinking of ?


My apologies for berrating you with so many questions. As this bird doesnt speak, nor does it show any signs or symptoms.. at present, an online guide is my only hope.
I Want to see this bird fly!
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 01:13 PM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
Questions are always welcome, but plse then stick to the answers. Plse stop giving him baby probiotics. This may contain milk products, and pigeons can't digest milk. So you are making things worse by guessing and putting all kinds of stuff into him.

Ok. Rather go for 40 mg of metro, you don't want to underdose. This applepuree you can mix with warm water to make it a bit runny. Now gently dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils otherwise he will aspirate) into this mixture to get him to drink. You might have to do this several times for him to learn. You can try giving some by syringe, but he can also easily aspirate, so rather try the first method.

Has he been pooping? Can you see the crop going down? ONLY feed him peas when the crop is empty. 30 peas 3 times daily, so 90 total for the day. You can try and get probiotics for pigeons. He will need that after the antibiotic.
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 01:15 PM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
Plse just make sure he does not overheat. Always better to give them some space to move away from the heat source.
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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 02:39 PM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Plse stop giving him baby probiotics. This may contain milk products, and pigeons can't digest milk. So you are making things worse by guessing and putting all kinds of stuff into him.
This seems a non-dairy probiotic.
Its Bifidobacterium animalis sub-suspension lactis by Sandoz.
I will stop it anyways.


Quote:
Ok. Rather go for 40 mg of metro, you don't want to underdose. This applepuree you can mix with warm water to make it a bit runny. Now gently dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils otherwise he will aspirate) into this mixture to get him to drink.
- will dose it with 40mg approx of metro.

- Upon dipping its beak.. it does not drink at all. just stays still .. or moves its head away to the right or left.

- So had to force with syringe. It seemed very uncomfortable with water / apple puree + water. Consumes it with extreme difficulty it seems. Makes a 'puff' sound everytime it gulps water. It did aspirate. So I stopped. it Consumed about 1TBSP

- Will stick to peas.

Quote:
Plse just make sure he does not overheat. Always better to give them some space to move away from the heat source.
Done.

Its feathers now look a lot more ruffled up. some fall/fell.


Quote:
Has he been pooping ?
Yes. Much better compared to when I force-fed it apple.
poops have been frequent compared to the other day, since Ive stuck to peas. Like every 45mins to an hour.

They are mostly completely green and pasty, with bubbles.. lots of bubbles.

Poop after first dose of Metro appears mostly white. but landed entirely on tissue paper.. so cant say much about texture.

Last edited by birdtalk; 30th May 2019 at 02:45 PM..
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 30th May 2019, 10:54 PM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
His droppings will be green and mushy when getting fed peas. At least we know the food is digesting. Bubbles/foamy droppings can be a sign of yeast that also appear as whitish yellowish growths. Can you get hold of human Nystatin from a pharmacy?
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 31st May 2019, 12:55 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
The Nystatin is a thickish yellow liquid. You will need to give him about 0.3ml twice daily on a empty crop. It does not get absorbed in the system, but needs to come into contact with the yeast. The antibiotics will also make the yeast worst.
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Marina B Marina B is offline
Posted 31st May 2019, 01:06 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Country: South Africa
Location: Lamberts Bay
Posts: 2,302
So every morning: give him Nystatin, wait an hour and then feed him peas and then give the metro. The Nystatin comes with a 1ml medicine dropper, so just draw up the correct amount an put little bits in front of his mouth and give him time to swallow. He will hate this!

Try to get him to drink some water. You can add 5ml of apple cider vinegar to 1 l of drinking water. Put some in a small bowl and also dip the tip of his beak inside there. Be patient, he will eventually have to learn to start drinking.
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birdtalk birdtalk is offline
Posted 31st May 2019, 02:14 AM
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
Update:

> After giving it applesauce with warm water, I left it alone for about 4-5 hours and gave it another dose of Metro.
Then I slept off..

Woke up in 4 hours and saw it had pooped a lottttt!.. Its crop is much much softer now. Its about 70-80 % softer compared to yesterday.
Poop is Greyish-Brown and white in color mostly.

Poop : http://www.imagebam.com/image/5905bb1237692864



I fed it about 30 Peas .. And The crop was not even 30% full after feeding it peas. It still refuses to eat or drink.
10 mins after feeding peas, it pooped Green. This was pretty quick.


Another issue
Its started to bite/poke/itch itself a lot more - under the wings.. over the shoulders. A lot more than usual.
A pic of amount of feathers its lost. It does it every 2-3 mins. I checked it for bugs and stuff.. none. its clean. I want it to stop poking itself with the tip of its beak.

Pic : http://www.imagebam.com/image/c843571237692874


> I will try to get Nystatin. Lets hop Its found here.
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baby pigeon, canker, drowsy, sad, sleepy


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