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Colombina Colombina is online now
Posted 14th April 2019, 06:19 PM
Join Date: Jan 2017
Country: Italy
Posts: 713
Hi Hekie, thank you for the update and for the photo, I really hope that you will find a wonderful home for Gael soon. BTW he is really cute!

Just a few advices about contamination risk: change your clothes when you have to handle a sick bird (for feeding, giving the med, cleaning his cage, etc), wear them just for him; wash carefully your hands; have a pair of slippers specific for the room where you leave your healthy bird free to move and walk (wear them just in that room); keep the birds in separated rooms.

I read about Stefania even in your other threads, I really really hope she makes it. I saw the video, she is absolutely lovely and sweet.
Last December we rescued a young pigeon who was entirely blocked by canker, I thought he was going to die. We had to fight hard but he won his battle against it, a Christmas miracle! I will write you more about him tomorrow, we called him Chris.

Thanks for the video, I'm glad to see Beth! She looks fine! She is a very beautiful cat!

Of course, I will let you know when I choose a name for my dove.

Last edited by Colombina; 15th April 2019 at 04:31 AM..
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 15th April 2019, 12:24 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Country: Spain
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 222
Stefania died about an hour ago, Colombina. It was so sad. She had been struggling to breathe overnight. I tried to feed her which was a stupid thing to do. Her breathing got worse and I tried desperately to clear some of the canker out but it didn't work. If it were a few hours later we could have gone to the vet. Times like this I really wish I were a vet - I didn't know how to safely remove the canker. I think she was so close to being OK. RIP. I really cared about her a lot, she was very dear.
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Colombina Colombina is online now
Posted 15th April 2019, 04:14 AM
Join Date: Jan 2017
Country: Italy
Posts: 713
Oh Hekie, I'm really really sorry to hear she didn't make it.
I know you really cared a lot about her, you gave her all your help and your love. Sometimes, unfortunately, we can't just save them. Sometimes, even a good vet can't save them. I know how you feel because I lost too some birds (other than my wonderful cat Kira), I'm so so sorry.

When I read about Stefania I thought about a baby dove who had too a bad canker and some liquid in her beak. We rescued her in summer 2014, I brought her to a vet (not my current vet), we started the treatment but unfortunately she died in a couple of days.

When you feel better, I will tell you about the use of povidone iodine (Betadine) in canker in add to the med. You could talk about it with your vet and maybe try it next time. I learned about this method from my French vet.

Anything you need I'm here 💜 .
A big hug.
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 15th April 2019, 06:53 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Country: Spain
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 222
Thank you, Colombina. I'm frustrated with myself for again making a wrong decision like with Luisa. If I'd chosen differently, I think Stefania would have survived.

This process of learning from birds dying is incredibly painful. I felt particularly attached to this little one right away and I'm so upset I pulled her through yesterday when she nearly died then made the wrong decision today and she's gone. I really wanted her to be a happy story. She brought me a lot of joy these past two days. I buried her in the big park.
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Colombina Colombina is online now
Posted 15th April 2019, 01:27 PM
Join Date: Jan 2017
Country: Italy
Posts: 713
I perfectly understand how you feel Hekie. I'm sure you tried your best. She spent her last days in a warm place, loved and cared by a wonderful person like you, I think that this is an important thing. I'm sure Stefania felt your love. You know, I think she is now happily flying with all the birds we lost and with my beloved cat Kira. They are watching over us.

I just want to tell you about the use of povidone iodine in case of canker shown in the beak/throat so you could talk about it with your vet.
In France some vets (I learned this method from my current vet) suggest to apply inside the beak/throat povidone iodine (Betadine 10%): you have to dip a Q-tip in it (just be careful, the Q-tip must not bee too impregnated with Betadine) then gently apply it topically twice a day.

As I want to give you all the informations, I know that not all vets agree with this method. Personally I always follow this suggestion (even for yeasts, I will talk about it if you want).

Here you can read the informations found by Howl about povidone iodine:

https://www.pigeons.biz/forums/#/topics/116644

Try to stay strong, Gael and Beth need you!

Edit: sorry I wrote Giovanna instead of Stefania, I corrected it... Last day my neighbor gave me her phone number and her name is Giovanna...sorry...

Last edited by Colombina; 15th April 2019 at 05:55 PM..
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cwebster cwebster is offline
Posted 15th April 2019, 08:38 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Location: Central Coast, CA
Posts: 6,244
Am so sorry to hear Stefania didnt make it. I have lost creatures of all kinds trying to save them and it always hurts. My vet used to say focus on the ones you save and dont look back. Thank you for trying to save Stefania.
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 19th April 2019, 11:57 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Country: Spain
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 222
Thank you both very much for your kind words. It helped.

I felt horrible in the first days after Stefania died. I am accepting it now but I'm trying not to think about her too much. This is one baby where I will always wish desperately that there had been a different outcome.

Gael is doing well and I have started looking for a home for him. He has three options so far, but one is very far away and two are if he's and girl! Which I actually think he is and I have thought that for a while. But I won't know for sure until s/he's a lot older.

Colombina, that is very interesting about your canker treatment. So you apply it to the mouth and throat, and the canker growth itself?? Stefania's was juge and blocked her whole throat. One major issue that I have is that I do not speak Spanish perfectly so I cannot have the depth of discussions I would like to have with my vet. I manage OK, but not well enough to discuss some of this. I need to ask him about what medicines he is giving me as well - he doesn't tell me the specific names, which makes it hard to share here with other people who could also give me advice.

I just found a new baby bird. I will start a new thread. What is going on this year, there are so many!?
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Ladygrey Ladygrey is offline
Posted 20th April 2019, 06:43 AM
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I had a orphan pigeon from my domestic flock, he was about a week or so old when the parents stopped feeding him, I hand fed that baby for another three weeks, but he just stopped developing, he was at a stand still and I could not figure it out, he just was not hardy enough to grow and develop, I got so attached to his funny fuzzy orange color, he was so sweet and a real trooper, he passed away, just sitting in his nest I made for him in a laundry basket. It is sad and sometimes that is just nature. We have to accept these things or I would go crazy! Lol. Iím sorry for your loss. If you get into the rehabbing of birds this will happen again , but it in no way reflects on the super care you give.

To add, keep in mind, if a bird can be picked up, they are very sick already, a bird that has gone down is a hard case to treat and cure, it can be done but for that reason that is why some veterinarians do not treat birds. People bring birds to the vet for a reason and the vet already knows that bird may die if it is showing illness , well this can reflect badly on the vet when the bird dies, so they stay clear of birds. Avian vets have a special place in my heart..lol.. they can explain this to the owners of the pet bird well. So when we find a bird down you already have an uphill battle, but kudos to the ones who try and succeed!

Last edited by Ladygrey; 20th April 2019 at 07:02 AM..
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 20th April 2019, 10:32 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Country: Spain
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 222
Thanks for your kind words, Ladygrey. I'm very sorry for the loss of your little buddy as well. It's very heartbreaking to try and help these birds. But there is also so much joy.

My sister re-trained as a vet after a business career and she always recites the lecture name they had when they covered birds: "A sick bird is a dead bird." She has birds herself, and was lucky to have one of her wee ones pull through a bad situation where she was sure she'd lose him. They definitely don't handle trauma very well. I'm super glad to have the reptile warming pads I bought. They work really well.
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 20th April 2019, 10:35 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Country: Spain
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 222
I have a question about Gael's age. How old would you think he might be based on this photo? I won't state the age I thought so as not to influence your opinions.

I ask because I thought he was younger but I just noticed this afternoon that his good eye is now bright orange, which is the adult colour in my flock.
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 20th April 2019, 10:35 AM
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And another angle.
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Ladygrey Ladygrey is offline
Posted 20th April 2019, 10:46 AM
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Infection is the killer in cases with wounds, esp if it was a dog or cat. So antibiotics ASAP is recommended. The vet should clean the wound and maybe use surgical glue if itís not abscessed or an abscess.
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Friend John Friend John is online now
Posted 20th April 2019, 01:44 PM
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 266
Gael looks to me like he's 40-50 days old.
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Colombina Colombina is online now
Posted 21st April 2019, 07:21 AM
Join Date: Jan 2017
Country: Italy
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hekie View Post
Thank you both very much for your kind words. It helped.

I felt horrible in the first days after Stefania died. I am accepting it now but I'm trying not to think about her too much. This is one baby where I will always wish desperately that there had been a different outcome.

Gael is doing well and I have started looking for a home for him. He has three options so far, but one is very far away and two are if he's and girl! Which I actually think he is and I have thought that for a while. But I won't know for sure until s/he's a lot older.

Colombina, that is very interesting about your canker treatment. So you apply it to the mouth and throat, and the canker growth itself?? Stefania's was juge and blocked her whole throat. One major issue that I have is that I do not speak Spanish perfectly so I cannot have the depth of discussions I would like to have with my vet. I manage OK, but not well enough to discuss some of this. I need to ask him about what medicines he is giving me as well - he doesn't tell me the specific names, which makes it hard to share here with other people who could also give me advice.

I just found a new baby bird. I will start a new thread. What is going on this year, there are so many!?
Yes, I apply Betadine to the mouth/throat and to the growth itself. I apply it even in case of yeast (as alternative, you could apply …osine 2%. If you can read French - I remember you worked in Paris so maybe you can speak it - here is a link about yeasts, you can read there about …osine

http://www.colombophiliefr.com/maladies/muguet.htm

).

Of course, the disinfectant is something more than the main treatment (I mean the medicine).

As medicine for canker, a few years ago I started using spartrix (carnidazole), personally I had good results with it even in bad cases of canker. I think that the direct contact of spartrix on the canker may be helpful. I could explain you how I gave it to Chris.

I understand what you meant about the language, even my French is not perfect.. Fortunately my vet speaks a perfect Italian (he is French but loves Italy so spends a lot of time there!). If I can ask it, where are you from?

I'm glad to hear that Gael is doing well! Three options are a good start, I hope you will find him (or, better, her !) a wonderful home soon.

I'm going to read your other thread.

BTW Happy Easter 😊!
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Hekie Hekie is offline
Posted 24th April 2019, 08:03 AM
Join Date: Apr 2018
Country: Spain
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 222
Happy belated Easter, Colombina and to all.

Friend John, thanks for your guess - I was worried that he may be older than I'd thought but your guess makes me feel much better. I estimate him to be around 70 days old now. He was bigger than my last baby when I found him, so I suspect five weeks or older. And he weighed a whopping 265g!!! So he may be older but clearly I'm in the right ballpark which is reassuring.

Colombina, thanks for the info - I'll gather it all together from the different threads to better understand canker. I do mostly read French, though it's been a while.

Gael has had another option open up so it's a matter of deciding which imperfect option will be best. None of them are bad, just not perfect. I will let you know what I decide. At the moment I think the bet option is if he goes to my friend in Galicia.

I had two more birds in the last 12 hours, it's just ridiculous. I've had four in two weeks and it's exhausting. The one yesterday, my workmates contacted me while I'm on holiday because there was a sick pigeon on the terrace of our office. I opted for euthanasia and it was so sad. It's the first time I've done that with a bird. The one today was a blackbird and Beth found it (as per usual). I got very lucky because a neighbour who also helps birds was walking her dogs. We caught it together, I ran home to get a carrier and some parasite spray (poor thing was covered in them) and she has taken the bird home to care for it. She also took and scalped baby pigeon a few months ago that I found, but didn't have room to care for (I had three wild kittens at the time). So I hope that the bird today will have a happy ending. RIP to Marquesa, the pigeon who died yesterday 😞
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