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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 07:34 PM
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Friend gave me a baby dove...questions...


A friend of mine raises doves, but do to a sudden emergency she has, she ran over to my place and gave me a 3-4 day old dove. I have experience in hand-rearing parrots...and I am reading up on raising baby doves and am getting a little nervous...LOL

I see they need a high protien diet. I told her I have had rearing formula, but she was really upset and left quickly. I told her I would take care of the baby.

The formula I have is Neo-nate and has 22% crude protien, 10% crude fat, 4% cruid fiber. Is this enough? No one in town sells squab diet formulas...and it could take a week for an order over the net to arrive. Could I add something to the neo-nate to make up the protien content?

Until next time...
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upcd upcd is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 07:41 PM
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Thanks


For caring for the baby. You can up the protien by adding cat or dog food to the mixture. She didn't have any other birds on babies she could stick it under? God bless you.
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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 07:43 PM
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Lightbulb

Looking through the archives...some people use the ballon over a cut off syringe to feed...would this work with this youngin? I've got syringes and a tube I use for smaller parrots. The tube is a bit big for this little guys mouth though....will get picture up soon here.

Until next time...
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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upcd
For caring for the baby. You can up the protien by adding cat or dog food to the mixture. She didn't have any other birds on babies she could stick it under? God bless you.
I dunno, she ran off in a hurry. She was a bit emotional and I am not one to pry. I am honored to take another baby in though!

Here is a link to the photos...couldn't upload them here. Thing said the file was too large.

http://photos.yahoo.com/crowcallerwoman

Until next time...
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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upcd
For caring for the baby. You can up the protien by adding cat or dog food to the mixture. She didn't have any other birds on babies she could stick it under? God bless you.

What about monkey chow? I see some references to that.


Until next time...
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Lin Hansen Lin Hansen is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 08:02 PM
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Jersey USA
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Hi CrowCallerWoman,

Welcome to Pigeon Talk. I am sorry to hear of your friend's emergency...you are a good friend to her. We have many members who have had personal experience with handraising pigeons and doves, and hopefully they will be along shortly to give you some good advice.

In the meantime, I am sure the formula you have right now will do in a pinch...it is better than nothing. If you feel up to it, I have found a recipe for homemade formula for baby pigeons and doves courtesy of our moderator Terry Whatley:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a copy of the MacMilk diet for pigeons and doves:
--------------------------------------------

MacMilk: Crop Milk Replacer Recipe

1 jar (71 grams) strained chicken baby food
1 hard-boiled egg yolk (16.6 grams)
1 tablespoon low-fat yogurt (15.3 grams)
¼ teaspoon corn oil (1.13 grams)
247.6 mg calcium carbonate
2 drops cod-liver oil (from gel cap)
1 drop vitamin E (diluted 1:10 in corn oil; see notes)
1 small pinch vitamin B complex (see notes)
25 mg. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)

For birds days 1 to 3, digestive enzymes (see notes)

Method: Mix all ingredients in a blender. Allow the digestive enzymes to work on the food for ½ hour before using at room temperature. Warm it to 'wrist' temperature before feeding.

Note: because the replacer offers more calories and is more bioavailable than other diets, you may require less than you are used to feeding. Weigh the bird, calculate its energy
requirements and feed accordingly.

MacMilk® Astrid MacLeod and Janine Perlman, 2001©

NOTES

Vitamins: Vitamin E, as purchased, is too 'strong' for the correction required in this diet. Mix one drop of vitamin E (from a 400 IU/ capsule) with 10 drops of corn oil. Shake or stir well. Then, use 1 drop of the diluted vitamin E in the recipe. The remainder can be kept in an airtight container and stored in a cool, dark place. It can be used over the next few days -. Because vitamin E degrades, it will have to be mixed fresh after a
few days, so don't make too much at once. The amount of B complex required is too small to weigh on a gram scale. The amount required for this recipe is a pinch the size of one sesame seed.

Enzymes: Hatchling doves do not have high enough levels of proteases and other enzymes to digest foods well. Although crop milk is high in protein, as described earlier in this section, some of the protein is in the form of 'free amino acids' - thus, already broken down. This is one of the reasons that raising hatchling doves has been very difficult in the past. We can break down the protein in the crop milk replacer by adding digestive enzymes.

Birds days one to three: digestive enzymes must be added to all hatchling diets, and can be discontinued after day three, when the bird's own digestive enzymes are at higher levels. Pancrezyme can be purchased from a veterinary clinic. Enzymes from the health food store probably will not be effective. Because enzymes are required for hatchling diets and in emaciation protocol, they are good to have on hand.

Method: You will require 1/8 teaspoon of enzymes for one recipe of MacMilk. Mix the enzymes with the food 30 minutes before feeding, to allow the enzymes to work on the food. Do not mix enzymes with the day's ration of food - only with what will be used in the next feeding. Otherwise, the diet will spoil. You will have to estimate how much of a recipe of MacMilk you require per feeding based on the number of hatchlings you have to feed. Then, add the enzymes as needed; for example, if you will be using 1/8th recipe of MacMilk,
use a small pinch of enzymes (1/8th the amount of what is required for the whole recipe). To do this, take the amount of food that you'll need for the next feeding and mix it with the enzymes. Let the food sit for 30 minutes before feeding, so that the enzymes can work on the food.

Columbids Day Four and Later: Discontinue the addition of enzymes to MacMilk. Some species begin to mix crop milk with regurgitated (partially digested) seeds or grains sooner than others. Generally, the rule of thumb might be to use crop milk replacer for at least the first week of life, and begin to gradually mix in other foods
over a period of two weeks. During the first days of new additions, the baby bird will not yet be digesting all the carbohydrates, and the high-protein food is still needed for growth and feathering, thus a gradual changeover is necessary. Good choices might be Exact® with gradual additions of foods like mixed-cereal pablum with an added tablespoon of strained baby food corn.

Feeding technique: To feed older nestling doves, one method allows the baby to 'root'. Pull up formula in a large feeding syringe and then remove the plunger. Across the wide opening of the syringe (not the tip), stretch a piece of vet wrap or rubber dam (used by dentists) that has a hole to accommodate the bull. Secure well with a rubber band. The bird will thrust its bill into the opening and 'drink', much as it does from its parent. These methods can be
messy until you acquire a technique; wipe up any formula on the baby with a Q-tip dipped in warm water.

Some rehabbers prefer to feed nestling doves and pigeons with a tube and syringe. This does take practice; the tube must slide down the side of the throat without getting any fluid into the tracheal opening. Instructions for tube feeding can be found in the fluid therapy section of this manual. As a rehabilitator's tube-feeding skills develop, the amount of formula the doves take at various ages follows a pattern. Although a rehabilitator may attempt to feed quickly at the height of baby season, haste can have serious consequences. Always go slowly when emptying the contents of the syringe into the bird's crop, especially with newly presented birds. Every so often a dove will have a smaller crop capacity than normal and the excess formula can aspirate the bird.

When using a tube and syringe to feed or hydrate any bird, make sure the tubing is soft and flexible. Medical grade tubing is expensive but worth every penny to prevent harm to delicate tissue in the throat and crop.

To prevent impaction, It is very important that the crop be allowed to fully empty before it is filled again. The crop is very noticeable as a sort of pouch that overlays the breastbone. After feeding, the crop should not be hard to the touch. Feed only enough to fill the crop ¾ full -- this feels similar to a hot water bottle that is ¾ full. An impacted crop results when the crop becomes too full for the normal passage of food.

Since doves have larger crops than gaping birds, they do not have to be fed as often. The rule of thumb for doves in their first week of life would be 4 feedings per day, and as the bird moves towards weaning, going to 3 feedings per day and gradually weaning to 2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even if you don't wind up making this homemade formula, I thought the above information would be helpful as it points out some facts about doves.

The balloon and syringe method would probably be your best bet for feeding...many members have had great success with it. There are a lot of useful threads in the Pigeon Daily section under Resources, that you may want to check out.

Well, thanks again so much for helping this baby....others should be along soon to offer help as well.

Good luck,
Linda

Last edited by Lin Hansen; 12th June 2005 at 08:04 PM..
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upcd upcd is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 08:07 PM
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Yes


monkey chow's fine. Balloon method too. I tend to use a tube feeder. It is a long tube. I get them from the Vet. the have very small one for little babies. I hook it to a syrgine so I can measure how much food is given. Must be careful you can choke baby if your not careful that tube goes into crop and not lungs. It a quick way to feed a bird.
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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 08:35 PM
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Hey thanks for all the information! I'm gobbling it all up!
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upcd upcd is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 10:47 PM
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Baby


How Is Your Baby Doing?
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TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 12th June 2005, 11:35 PM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208
The dove baby can be fed Kaytee Exact with good results (or one of the other brand names for baby hookbill formula). The MacMilk diet is truly an excellent one and was formulated by Janine Perlman and Astrid MacLeod (it's not my diet .. just one I posted here). MacMilk tends to be a bit impractical for rearing a single dove or pigeon as there are many ingredients, some of which, aren't all that easy to come by.

For doves or pigeons as small as the one you have, I will add a bit of human baby food (chicken, turkey, or beef) to the formula for the first week to boost the protein level just a bit. Keep the formula on the thin (watery) side for the first few days to help avoid dehydration and/or an impacted crop.

Terry



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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 13th June 2005, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upcd
How Is Your Baby Doing?
Hey there!

So far so good. Got the first feeding down this morning, and he/she gobbled it right down. I used the dammed syringe technique. Me so happy!
Now I gotta go down and get a little something extra to make up that protien.
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CrowCallerWoman CrowCallerWoman is offline
Posted 15th June 2005, 08:06 PM
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Air in crop?


WOW! This little guy is quite the gobbler!
I am noticing air in his crop after feeding...and I am worried there is more air than food. Any ideas on this? I am feeding using the dammed syringe method.

OH OH OH! And his eyes opened yesterday! He thinks the food comes from my fingers as he is always nudding my fingers and won't sit still till I litterally shove it's beak into the syringe...LOL! He/She so cute!
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