Is This Paratyphoid ?? - Page 2 - Pigeon-Talk
Pigeon-Talk  
Go Back   Pigeon-Talk > Pigeon Crisis - Emergency! > Sick or Injured Pigeon and Dove Discussions

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
re92346mos's Avatar
re92346mos re92346mos is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 09:01 AM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Highland, Ca.
Posts: 351
Terry, I wouldnt use Baytril as a flock treatment.
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Skyeking's Avatar
Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 09:04 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 25,397
Rena,

Thanks for bringing this thread up.

This is a good one for us all to revue, especially with the current thread on "Wing boils?"



__________________
TAWhatley's Avatar
TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 11:10 AM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208
Thanks for the sulfadimethoxine info Rena. Since I had only the one bird to treat, it was easier for me to use Baytril. I rarely have a situation where flock treatment is needed as I get the birds one at a time to care for.

I also found some articles indicating that some types of salmonella are resistant to the sulfadimethoxine.

http://www.jarvm.com/articles/Vol1Iss3/Malik.htm

This particular article also noted that Amikacin was effective in the tests they did.

Terry



 
re92346mos's Avatar
re92346mos re92346mos is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 08:42 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Highland, Ca.
Posts: 351
Hi Terry, thank you for the link, we have been discussing this lately on Modena Talk, this is pretty interesting also-Resistant Forms


We are hearing more and more about resistant forms of the various organisms we encounter with our pigeons. These are the main ones:
Trichomonas: Reports mount and my experience shows that trichomonas is showing resistance to the commonly used drugs. This has been experienced for some time and it was just a matter of time before we started seeing resistant forms here. The best line of defense now is to rotate the anti-trichomonas drugs that one uses.

Worms: The main thing here is the resistance of roundworms to Ivermectin. Ivermectin has be a great aid in controlling the more severe worms such as Capallaria (hairworms), and Stomach wall worms (Tetrameres and Dispharynx); but with increasing incidence, it fails to eliminate the common roundworm. The recommendation here is to use the old standby-Tramisol or the newer wormer-Pyrantel pamoate for roundworms but continue to use Ivermectin for the others.

Bacteria: In pigeons as in humans and other species, the incidence of bacteria which are resistant to the more common antibiotics is increasing rapidly. Years ago the tetracycline drugs did a great job of controlling salmonella. Now it is the uncommon salmonella that is sensitive to the tetracyclines.

Bacteria become resistant to antibiotics most easily when they are repeatedly exposed to a particular one. What makes it easier for this to happen is to use too weak a dose for too short a time.

Also, indiscriminate use of antibiotics exposes the bacteria to them at an incidence that encourages resistance to occurr. Do not use antibiotics indiscriminately; remember that antibiotics are a treatment, not a preventive--they have no preventive effect except in an epidemic situation. Use proper dose for proper time when using antibiotics as a treatment.

Coccidia: This parasite, too, becomes resistant to various treatments. Rarely is sulmet or the other sulfas adequate in controlling coccidiosis anymore. The stalwart drug, Amprolium is now failing in increasing numbers or cases. We are relying more and more on Baycox to effectively eliminate coccidia, although amprolium is still very effective in the majority of cases.
re92346mos's Avatar
re92346mos re92346mos is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 09:00 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Highland, Ca.
Posts: 351
Baytril is my drug of choice to Terry, but I like to use it only when I have to because it is such a strong drug. When I do use it I use 1/4 Tablet. I have heard it causes fertility problems. Just what I heard. Thank you for the links, I need them for refrences. I just got back from you know where, I am going to see how much work I have on 911. It would be nice to hear what everyone thinks causes the resistance our birds are getting to these drugs and everyones opinion on over medicating birds as preventive measures.
TAWhatley's Avatar
TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 09:40 PM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208
Great post, Rena .. we'll all be following up on your information. We all have to deal with these things, and all input is so very valuable.

Terry



Maggie-NC Maggie-NC is offline
Posted 4th December 2005, 11:07 AM
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,856
Hi all. Somehow I missed this thread but thought I'd offer some opinions.

When we started rehabbing birds in the fall of 1993, about the only medications we administered were on an "as needed" basis. For a few years we would get the pigeons past the crisis point and then give them to a fellow rehabber to go in one of her aviaries for awhile before releasing them. After she gave us an aviary she wasn't using, we kept the pigeons until we released them. We never had a problem until a pigeon came in with coccidiosis and we had to treat the entire flock. Now, we routinely treat all of them every six months. We also routinely treat them for worms every 3-4 months. I can't say that I have noticed a resistence to either medication - Sulmet and Pyrentel/Strongid.

I have been looking over all my records while working on the formulary/dosage thread that has been discussed. Last night, something really struck me about those records. From 1993 until about 1999 we had a higher mortality rate than we did from 1999 to now. In 1999, I got with my vet and we decided to begin treating each bird that came in with Bactrim, Nystatin, Pyrantel/Strongid and either Spartrix or Metronidazole. The mortality rate seemed to drop considerably because of that. Of course, anytime you pick up a sick pigeon off the street, you know you may lose him no matter what you do, but the few that died usually died overnight or the next day.

I don't exactly consider our "shotgun" approach with new arrivals quite like I do the preventative medicine we give for coccidia and worms. All I know is it makes a big difference in a pigeon's survival and for now I plan to continue this regimen.

Maggie
Skyeking's Avatar
Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 4th December 2005, 11:24 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 25,397
Maggie,

I think it is excellent that you keep records of everything, how interesting to see a pattern when you used a different regimen for treatment. It is not only beneficial for you to go back and see the change, but we can all learn from it!
Thanks for sharing.



__________________
Maggie-NC Maggie-NC is offline
Posted 4th December 2005, 12:49 PM
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,856
Thanks Treesa. The records have been a real godsend to us. If we get in a bird that has injuries or is sick and it seems familiar, we go to the records and check out what we did for the first one. It really helps.

They're not as inclusive as I would like them to be. For many years we were getting in so many it was hard to keep up with the posting of medicines, vet visits, what she did for them etc., but I tried. Lots of times I had so many post-it notes lying around it would take me two days to figure out what to do with them

Maggie
Birdmom4ever's Avatar
Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 4th December 2005, 12:50 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,981
Just a few things I wanted to share:

Baytril and fertility: perhaps it causes some fertility issues short-term, but we've had quite a few pigeons treated with Baytril (either by the vet or by me) and they produced normal, healthy chicks aftwards.

Drug-resistance: I've used Baytril for individuals but not as a flock treatment or preventative, for obvious reasons. We had an outbreak of respiratory infections this summer. I treated several individuals successfully with Baytril and isolated them from the flock, of course. However once I realized I was dealing with an outbreak I treated the whole flock with Doxy-T and that put a stop to it.

I just met my first Baytril-resistant bacteria in a 6-month-old nun pigeon. The actual cause of his illness is still a mystery to us. His only symptoms were weight loss and unwillingness to fly. The vet checked for Trich and Coccidia and found nothing. No worms, either. So he did a blood panel. Organ function was normal but he had a very high white cell count, indicating a bacterial infection. The odd thing was, except for the weight loss he looked otherwise normal. Normal droppings (though not enough volume), no respiratory or other symptoms.

The vet put him on Ticarcillin, an injectible antibiotic. He had to stay on it for a week and now he's better. None of the other pigeons have been sick.

I asked my vet if he would recommend checking some of my pigeons for Trich and Coccidia periodically or or simply continue what I'm doing, which is to treat for those things several times a year, rotating meds. He recommended I continue to treat them prophylactically.
feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 17th March 2007, 03:42 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
In my internet surfing, I found the following article on Paratyphoid/Salmonella
that was pulled directly from the insert enclosed w/the Sal Bac vaccine. It is an excellent description of the disease and thought it best to tag it on to this existing information on the disease.

From this site:


http://www.kjsgroup.com/rprs/aspx/do...Salmonella.asp

Salmonella

A Disease Description

Editors note: I noticed the following when vaccinating my young birds. It is a short and accurate description of the disease and wanted to include it on this site so that it would be readily available for those using the search feature on this site.

Paratyphoid (Salmonellosis) in pigeons is an acute or chronic bacterial disease caused by Salmonella. The most common species identified in cases of paratyphiod in pigeons is Salmonella typhimurium. ( Murium is Latin for mouse)

The primary means of infection is through fecal contamination of feed, water or the environment( by rodents). The devastating nature of this disease is impacted by the occurrence of asymptomatic carrier birds which show no signs of illness and spread the disease to other birds. The organism may localize in the gallbladder or intestine and may then intermittently be shed through the feces.

Clinical manifestation of paratyphiod is broad in its range of symptoms. Of the several forms of expression, the disease in squabs (nestling pigeons) causes high mortality. Symptoms are usually evident soon after hatching and appear as retarded growth, diarrhea and death. Necropsy often reveals an unabsorbed yolk sac in addition to typical intestinal lesions. The squabs which survive the initial infection may develop swollen wing joints which prevent them from flying.

Adult birds may only show a mild infection or be completely without symptoms. Hens often develop infected ovaries and reproductive tracts leading to transovarion transmission of the Salmonella to the developing embryo and newly hatched chicks.

An articular form of the disease usually develops through a chronic course and involves the joints of the wings and legs. Dropped wings or leg lameness are clinically visible in this form. Another characteristic sign is apparent as joint swellings or "wing boils". The swelling is due to a collection of gelatinous exudate in the joint capsule. The Salmonella organism can readily be cultured from this exudate.

A septicemic form may be acute or chronic in course and clinically appears as depression, poor performance, weakness and watery, muciod diarrhea which leads to dehydration. Any stressful conditions exacerbate these symptoms. Other symptoms may be evident in the form of respiratory distress, anemia, or torticollis, a neuromotor defect due to encephalitis or inner ear infection causing the head and neck to be twisted to the side or extended over the back. Septicemia often causes an acute, severe enteritis with diarrhea and emaciation. Peracute deaths may occur as well.

The above is reprinted from the Sal Bac (vaccine for Salmonella typhimurium) insert. This vaccine is produced by the Biomune Co., Lenexa, Kansas, USA.


Hope this is helpful for members.

fp
Reti's Avatar
Reti Reti is offline
Posted 17th March 2007, 04:02 PM
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Location: Miami,Fl
Posts: 9,868
This is great fp, thanks for sharing.

Reti
Chris Y Chris Y is offline
Posted 17th March 2007, 04:28 PM
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 51
Thanks fp. Very useful information!
PigeonQueen PigeonQueen is offline
Posted 17th March 2007, 05:36 PM
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 610
Useful information. Thanks feralpigeon.
Skyeking's Avatar
Skyeking Skyeking is offline
Posted 17th March 2007, 08:12 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: SE Coast Central Florida
Posts: 25,397
Excellent fp.



__________________
Closed Thread

Tags
adult pigeon, avian vet, bacterial infection, healthy birds, house pigeon, hungarian giant house, pigeon supplies, pigeon supply, pigeon supply houses, respiratory infection, sick pigeon, young bird

 
You may also search for:

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2000-2016 pigeons.biz