Is This Paratyphoid ?? - Pigeon-Talk
Pigeon-Talk  
Go Back   Pigeon-Talk > Pigeon Crisis - Emergency! > Sick or Injured Pigeon and Dove Discussions

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
TAWhatley's Avatar
TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 14th March 2005, 08:07 PM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208

Is This Paratyphoid ??


was asked to take a Hungarian Giant House Pigeon in for
treatment by a friend who raises them. Three of his birds are
sick with this. I think what I am seeing is paratyphoid, but would
welcome a confirmation of this and suggested treatment. The
three birds most affected have been started on Amikacin, high doses,
and the "boils" have been lanced and drained, cleaned with Betadine,
and packed with antibiotic cream, and lightly bandaged to keep
the area clean. If this is paratyhoid, then what is the "flock" treatment
for this? I can handle individual birds, but am not sure what to
recommend for the others that have been exposed.


Thank you for any advice and assistance!


http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid

Terry (Teresa)



Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Pigeonpal2002 Pigeonpal2002 is offline
Posted 14th March 2005, 11:23 PM
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,379
Hi Terry,

I don't know if what you are seeing is in fact paratyphoid or not. The wing boils would seem to lead in this direction. It's best to have a culture done to be sure because there are different strains of the bacteria and you would need to get the right antibiotic. It would seem baytril or amoxicillan are still your best bets to treat individually however. Here are a few very good links regarding paratyphoid. The first one is from a renowned veterinarian in Canada, the second is just general information. The 3rd link is from Siegels describing the symptoms and then offering treatment options.

1) http://www.albertaclassic.com/chalmers1.php

2) http://www.pipa.be/artikels/pi-account/paratyphoid.htm

3) http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-paratyphoid.html
Reti's Avatar
Reti Reti is offline
Posted 15th March 2005, 05:43 AM
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Location: Miami,Fl
Posts: 9,868
Hi Terry,

here is what Foy's recommends for Paratyphoid outbreaks;
--if you have an outbreak you should immediately stop breeding
--Drugs proven to work include Cipro, Baytril, Sulpha-trimethoprim, Albon, Sulmet and Aureomycin.

--Another prevention is to acidify the litter. A combination of Sodium Acid Sulfate and Sulfur applied to the floor will work well.

--A tablespoon of vinegar per gallon of drinking water will help control Salmonella from being spread in the water.

--And of course vaccinating HEALTHY birds will prevent any further outbreaks.

Reti
 
re lee re lee is offline
Posted 15th March 2005, 09:23 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: enid okla
Posts: 4,198
It could be related to. But most often swollen joints weight loss and death happen. I was wondering is it possible parisites .But I was at a racers home about 2 weeks back. His flying team seemed to have cocsd, or parat. And a few birds did have boils on the wings. the birds was off weight also. I gave him sulmet for flock treatment. He did have a mice problem That he need to get under control. I let him know mice can cause alot of health issues. I still wonder on parisites also. I will be checking back with him soon to see if the birds are getting better. Its just his flying team of old birds seperate loft. About 60 birds are down on weight . other lofts are ok.
Birdmom4ever's Avatar
Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 15th March 2005, 03:33 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,981
Hi Terry,

You've already gotten good info. I just wanted to add that from what I've read (including a book written by a pigeon vet who also raises homers) Baytril is the drug of choice for treating Paratyphoid. If possible, as Brad said, running some tests to see what strain of bacteria you're dealing with would be good. But even if you can't, Baytril is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic.

Of course, once the pigeons recover they should be vaccinated with Sal-Bac, which involves an initial vaccination and a booster 3 to 4 weeks later.

We had an outbreak a couple years ago. Didn't see swollen joints, but some diarrhea and we lost a lot of babies in the nest. I treated the whole flock with Baytril and then vaccinated them. So far, we haven't had a problem with it again. I've heard that some pigeons that recover can remain carriers, but that doesn't seem to be the case with our flock. I vaccinate all youngsters and new birds and give yearly boosters. The packaging says every six months, but I can't seem to get around to it more than once a year (we have a lot of birds to vaccinate!). My vet told me these vaccines actually give immunity longer than the packaging says.

Anyway, best of luck treating your friend's Giant House pigeons.
TAWhatley's Avatar
TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 15th March 2005, 09:17 PM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208
Thank you everyone for your responses about this. My apologies for being MIA all day .. just too many rescues to arrange, coordinate, and take in the sick and wounded. I have been reading posts and am up on that count but haven't been able to respond until now and am still waiting for two more incoming this evening.

Anyway, the big beauty is some better today, so I will continue treatment .. have restocked Baytril today and given the first dose of that .. a double dose actually.

Will keep you posted, and thank you all again!

Terry



feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 11th April 2005, 10:46 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAWhatley
was asked to take a Hungarian Giant House Pigeon in for
treatment by a friend who raises them. Three of his birds are
sick with this. I think what I am seeing is paratyphoid, but would
welcome a confirmation of this and suggested treatment. The
three birds most affected have been started on Amikacin, high doses,
and the "boils" have been lanced and drained, cleaned with Betadine,
and packed with antibiotic cream, and lightly bandaged to keep
the area clean. If this is paratyhoid, then what is the "flock" treatment
for this? I can handle individual birds, but am not sure what to
recommend for the others that have been exposed.


Thank you for any advice and assistance!


http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid

Terry (Teresa)

Hi Terry,

I looked in all the supply houses that I know of and using search engine, I typed in Amikacin and got no listing for it. Is this the correct spelling, and
could this product be listed under something else?? Just curious especially
after your recent success with this under the thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9883

Thanks,

fp
TAWhatley's Avatar
TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 11th April 2005, 11:51 PM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208
FP .. Amikacin is a broad spectrum antibiotic. The paratyphoid birds were started on it because that is all I had that I thought would be potent enough on the first day. The birds were switched to Baytril which is really the drug of choice for paratyphoid.

One of the local avian certified vets in my area uses Amikacin for many, many things .. my own vet prefers Cipro (the human version of Baytril). Baytril was definitely the way to go on this one.

If anyone else gets such a bad case of paratyphoid, do NOT try to lance and drain the boils. I did this once and got out a large amount of fluid, but it just came back. The "texture" of these boils is also fairly thick/dense, and it is difficult to make a "dent" in. The Baytril and supportive care are what makes the difference.

I was also told by some experienced pigeon folks not to lance the boils .. unfortunately I got that advice after I had already tried it.

Here's one link for Amikacin http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/amikacin_ids.htm just for some basic info and to verify the spelling of the drug.

I'm glad you brought this topic back up as I would be moritified to have people thinking they needed Amikacin for paratyphoid when they should be using Baytril.

Here's some more links: http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/text...robials_2.html, http://info.med.yale.edu/yarc/vcs/infectives1.htm, http://www.vetsoftware.com/acvc2002-hess1.htm.

Terry



feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 12th April 2005, 07:28 AM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
Hi Terry,

Thanks for the clarification and once more all of the great links that you provided. Also, a point well taken about the lancing....with all of the info in here from senior members, it will be quite a resource for members in the future,
thanks to all,

fp
Birdmom4ever's Avatar
Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 12th April 2005, 07:59 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,981
Yes, the most up-to-date information I have (including a recent book written by a vet) says that Baytril is best for paratyphoid. Once they recover you should consider vaccinating them with Sal-Bac. We had salmonella in our loft a few years ago, introduced (we think) by rodents getting into the old aviary. I treated the flock with Baytril and then vaccinated them. We continue with vaccinations each year and haven't had a recurrence.
feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 12th April 2005, 10:26 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
Hi Birdmom4ever,

I'm glad you brought that up because I was wondering if you ran the full prescribed course with the baytril, and the bird was considered cured but a carrier, could you still vaccinate with benefit and no risk to the "carrier"?
Also, would the bird be determined to be a carrier from blood work or fecal float--which is better?

And one last question, do all of the abnormalities from paratyphoid resolve
after the treatment?

Thanks,
fp
Birdmom4ever's Avatar
Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 13th April 2005, 12:48 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,981
Yes, I gave them the full run of Baytril. None of the adult pigeons were ever tested. The avian vet I was using at the time told me salmonella is hard to test for; that a bird could test negative following a course of antibiotics and yet still turn out to be a carrier.

Only one of my adult pigeons ever exhibited symptoms and that was just diarrhea. It was the chicks, which nearly all died (about 10 in all), that were affected. That's how we knew we had a problem--all our babies were dying. We did have a chick necropsied, thinking they would confirm it was salmonella. It cost $200 and all they told us was that it died from a "massive intestinal bacterial infection." They explained that to determine the exact organism that caused the infection would have cost even more. We were disappointed not to know for certain, but dropped it. But the chicks' symptoms pointed to salmonella.

We had no complications after we vaccinated following treatment with Baytril and our chicks after that point were healthy. I don't think there is any risk to a carrier by vaccinating it once it recovers, but it would be best to check with an avian vet.
TAWhatley's Avatar
TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 13th April 2005, 04:43 PM
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA, USA
Posts: 21,208

Article By Dr. Marx


Indicates that it may be beneficial to vaccinate the bird during treatment for paratyphoid:

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdire...aratyphoid.cfm

Terry



feralpigeon's Avatar
feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 13th April 2005, 10:17 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern, CA
Posts: 6,859
Hey,

Thanks you guys for the Paratyphoid 101 !!

The info is very helpful and I appreciate your responses.

fp
re92346mos's Avatar
re92346mos re92346mos is offline
Posted 13th November 2005, 08:58 AM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Highland, Ca.
Posts: 351
Terry, SULFADIMETHOXINE is good, use in water, Tablespoon per Gallon. For 5 days. I am going to double check the exact dosage and will let you know, I am pretty sure its a Tablespoon, but I like to make sure. The breeders say it is good.
Closed Thread

Tags
adult pigeon, avian vet, bacterial infection, healthy birds, house pigeon, hungarian giant house, pigeon supplies, pigeon supply, pigeon supply houses, respiratory infection, sick pigeon, young bird

 
You may also search for:

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2000-2016 pigeons.biz