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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 12:31 AM
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What is the correct dosage for Baytril?


I was just fanning through various threads...looking for reiterations of the correct dosage for Baytril.

I know it has been covered, but I am not finding the definitive mention, and the various mentions I seem to be finding, are starting to seem cunfuseing to me.

I find one mention of 15 mg of pure medicine per Kilo...which, say, for a 330 gram Pigeon, would be about 5 milligrams.

Does this sound right then?

Now, the Baytril I have says "10 %" on the label...so...would I use "5 times 10, or 50 Milligrammes? In order to get the 5 mG of the 'pure medicine'?

I am confused now...!

...do I take the "mG" to equate to 'mL', in which my syringes are callibrated?

And, is a Millilitre the same as a Cubic Centimetre then?


I have a bird with a wrapped for a day now Wing, setting what had been a commutated fracture of the ulna...and I want to adminster Baytril, but now I do not feel confident I know the right dosage to make up.


Lastly, does this medicine work 'best' when given straight into the throat or Crop? And if so, should it be on an empty Stomach? Or does that matter?


Thanks!

Phil
Las Vegas
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 03:35 AM
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Hi Phil,

I also work that out at 5mg for a 330 gm pigeon.

mgs and mls do not equate to each other.

The 10% solution has 100 mg of the active ingredient (enrofloxacin) per ml. So to give 5 mg you would give 0.05 ml (ie.1/20 of a ml).

The 2.5% solution has 25mg of enrofloxacin per ml. To give 5mg you would give 0.20ml (ie. 1/5).

Baytril is very bitter, I think best given into the crop.

I think Helen determined that a cc and an ml are roughly the same, I prefer to stick to mls!

BTW the dosage for a cat is a lot lower!

Cynthia
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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 06:31 AM
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Hi Phil,

One thing that might be helpful for you is a section in the Modena's Club Doctor's Corner called Weights and Measurements:

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.c...&_measures.htm

I find myself referring to it frequently when translating for the different dosages on directions, just don't have all the breakdowns memorized yet. I also got measuring spoons and other stuff that has both systems of measurements to help me.

Also, what I do is copy and paste informative posts on an illness or dosing of a specific drug into Microsoft Word with the thread link for the quote so I can always go back to that thread and look over the full context. Microsoft will highlight the thread and enable you to click on it from the doc and go to the thread. So for Baytril, I have a number of entries, with thread locations on its dosing, along with other links in separate bookmark folder. It's just easier to get your hands on what you need in a hurry that way. For the 10% Baytril, I think it boils down to a matter of how many drops you will be putting down their throat with a dropper. I usually see where I need to draw it up to by squeezing out the drops back into the bottle to see how many drops will come out at what level. Two to three drops for the pigeon down the throat.
Also, looks like you can double up on the dosage for one to three days at the beginning of treatment according to TAW:

From This Thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12190

Baytril dosage

I think we can summarize Baytril dosage by saying 1mg per 66g of bird weight, twice per day. Does that match your usage?

Last edited by NumberNine : 3rd October 2005 at 09:33 PM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberNine I can we can summarize Baytril dosage by saying 1mg per 66g of bird weight, twice per day. Does that match your usage?


Yes .. 15 mg per kg BID .. that works out to be pretty darn close. For those without gram scales it's easier to deal with approx 7+ mg per pound.

My vet also subscribes to the theory that you need to load on the front end .. meaning that you might even give a double dose for the first two days and then go to the standard dose. There are some interesting papers on the net about this and how this is beneficial for birds since their metabolism is so much different than dogs/cats.

Terry

Thanks Terry! I'll do research on double dosing Baytril during the first 48 hrs.

hope this helps,

fp
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 09:32 AM
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Thanks Cynthia and fp,


My Syringes are callibrated in mL...and or cc...

I have no way of determining what a Millligramme would be.

My Baytril is the 10 % kind, liquid of course, and I am sure I have previously been consistant in having my dosages wrong.

'Drops' can vary in size, but if need be, I could try and use so-many-drops, or so many drops of Baytril-and-water, to arrive at what otherwise is a Milligramme dose.

Who the heck has any metho of determinine milligrammes? And why the heck should a liquid Medicine be stipulated in a weight intended for solids?

The whole alleged practicality OF the metric system, in pharmacology, is that it defers to liquid VOLUMES, or, solid WEIGHTS.

This contradiction is really giving me a headache.

Meanwhile, it is day two and I have still not given my Bird any Baytril because I realised my prior dosages have allways been completely screwed up, and I am still vexed.

How the heck do I get from "Solid Matter Weight" to Liquid Volumne?

If a CC or a mL is not the same, for a liquid to equate to a 'Milligramme'...

If my medication is 10 % by WEIGHT of Baytril, and the rest Water I suppose, then what IS the actual weight of the Baytril vis-a-vis the Water? for me to know what I am doing?

What sense does it make to stipulate weight for a liquid that has presumeably, a solid in suspension then, when it is on the basis ofr the weight of the solid, that the doosage is calculated? - whose VOLUME is what is needed, somehow, in the basis OF the weight of the suspension?

Sheeeeesh!

I wish we still used the old systems, at least THEY made sense in practice!

Phil
Las VEgas
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Maggie-NC Maggie-NC is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 05:25 PM
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Phil, could you call your favorite vet and get his input. Baytril dosages are very confusing.. I do want to mention that the thread I'm working on (which I will probably finish after the first of the year) will have some of the medical definitions of ml's and cc's, etc. I am trying to get my vet to help me with some of the Bayril info because the dosage is pretty tricky. I am to the point that I do not dose any of my pigeons with Baytril without confirming the dose with my vet and getting her ok to use it.

fp - that is a good link. If I ever get around to learning how to cut and paste, I think that would be a great way to keep notes.

Maggie
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 08:59 PM
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Hi Thanks Maggie, fp...

Too, I did some 'googles' on Baytril dosages for Birds, and found wildly differing amounts being quoted, up to 300 mG a-day for smallish Birds even...yeeeeesh!

Very confuseing...as too, there is the "2%" as well as the "10%" kinds, and the 'Tablets' and...often, references are not specific to what the percentage is of the form in question, for the dosages being discussed...so...


Cynthia,


Thank you!

You mention:

"The 10% solution has 100 mg of the active ingredient (enrofloxacin) per ml. So to give 5 mg you would give 0.05 ml (ie.1/20 of a ml)."



Okay...this I can understand then, as for some sense of how to proportion it.

I will go with the "point-zero-five" ( .05 ) or, 1/20th, of a mL ( cC) for my roughly 300 and low change Gram Bird...

Now, this amount, should be once-a-day? Or...?


Whew!


Thanks all!


Phil
Las Vegas
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 09:26 PM
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Phil,

"BID" is a Latin phrase and translates to "twice daily".

The metric basic unit is the gram which was originally defined as one cubic centimeter of pure water at a standard temperature. The gram/cubic centimeter of water only really breaks down when you start getting a significant variation in the specific gravity of the fluid you're wishing to measure. I don't know what the specific gravity of Baytril is but I doubt it's too far off of water as the lion's share of the suspension is water. There is some alcohol although the lightness of it is probably offset by the L-arginine base which has a higher specific gravity than water.

Anyhow, I think you're fine to do the math exactly as you did in your ciphering above. If you want 5 milligrams of the 10% liquid, then dose 50 microliters (NOT "milliliters") which is tough to do accurately with the 1 ml (cc) syringe. That's why I showed the 1/3 ml (cc) syringe in that thread "Metering Individual Doses" (I think). A "microliter" is 1/1000th of a milliliter, by the way.

Another way of doing it is that one drop is a tad over 20 microliters or 20 milligrams so two drops is about there. That's actually how many of the racers do it. If you're worried about bitterness, try a drop on your tongue. You've already indicated that you've done this before and all I'm going to tell you is not to slug down the bottle if you find the taste agreeable.

Pidgey

Last edited by Pidgey; 16th December 2005 at 04:16 AM..
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 09:57 PM
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Hi Phil,

Quote:
You mean "0.05" millilitres, yes? Not "50"...

One way I could measure for doses, is to take say 1 full millilitre/cubic centimetre/milligramme...of the 10 % bottled Medicine/Solution...and to it, add nine of water.

Then, 1/2 a Millilitre of THAT solution, in a one mL Syringe, would be easy to deal with for a dose.


And administer that dose, two times a day...

That is what I have considered doing too. That way we know that 10ml has 100 mg of Enrofloxacin in it.

But the drops system works as well, because the recommended dose is 10 - 20 mg per kilo, so there is a margin for giving too large or too small a drop.

Cynthia

Moderators...I have noticed that my posts appear just above the one that I am replying too. If this is happening to others then the threads will sometimes make little sense!
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Last edited by Feefo; 15th December 2005 at 10:00 PM..
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pdpbison pdpbison is offline
Posted 15th December 2005, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pidgey
Phil,

"BID" is a Latin phrase and translates to "twice daily".

<<<<<snip>>>>>

Anyhow, I think you're fine to do the math exactly as you did in your ciphering above. If you want 5 milligrams of the 10% liquid, then dose 50 milliliters which is tough to do accurately with the 1 ml (cc) syringe. That's why I showed the 1/3 ml (cc) syringe in that thread "Metering Individual Doses" (I think).[/GREEN]

<<<<<snip>>>>>

Pidgey
Hi Pidgey,


You mean "0.05" millilitres, yes? Not "50"...

One way I could measure for doses, is to take say 1 full millilitre/cubic centimetre/milligramme...of the 10 % bottled Medicine/Solution...and to it, add nine of water.

Then, 1/2 a Millilitre of THAT solution, in a one mL Syringe, would be easy to deal with for a dose.


And administer that dose, two times a day...


Sound good?


Phil
el ve

Last edited by pdpbison; 15th December 2005 at 10:59 PM..
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 16th December 2005, 04:14 AM
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Oops!

Actually 50 microliters as 50 milliliters would be 50 cc's.

Sorry, too sleepy!

Pidgey
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feralpigeon feralpigeon is offline
Posted 16th December 2005, 07:14 AM
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Hi Phil,

There are sixty drops per teaspoon, and drops are considered to be the same size regardless of dropper used.

Here are a couple of conversion links:

http://www.manuelsweb.com/nrs_calculators.htm

http://www.earthmagics.com/charts.html

fp
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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 16th December 2005, 07:57 AM
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Is that 12 drops per ml then ?

The calculators were also a very good find!

Cynthia
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Yong Yong is offline
Posted 16th December 2005, 08:22 AM
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Hi there, I know the Baytril you are speaking of. Use 3 drops, or .15 ml twice daily for 10 days. It will work for 270g- 400g bird. Dosagae calculators are a major pain, but are needed. In this case, I have given SOOOOO much Baytril this past year, I know this one from heart. It's a good average to use. Yong
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TAWhatley TAWhatley is offline
Posted 16th December 2005, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyro51
Moderators...I have noticed that my posts appear just above the one that I am replying too. If this is happening to others then the threads will sometimes make little sense!
It's an option in the User CP whether you prefer the posts in newest to oldest order or oldest to newest. Perhaps your settings got changed somehow. I prefer to read newest to oldest, but it sounds like you are used to oldest to newest.

Terry



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Feefo Feefo is offline
Posted 16th December 2005, 12:39 PM
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Hi Terry,

Yes, I know the order can be reversed, ....You can have the first post first or the last post first but my post didn't get placed at the top or the bottom of the list, which would fit in, but immediately before the one that I was answering instead of being 1 or 9 it appeared as 8. So I was effectively responding to a statement that hadn't been made. It seems to have sorted itself now.

Cynthia
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