Pigeon-Talk banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi everybody! We found an adult pigeon with one wing drooping and swollen lower than the other 5 days ago. We have been searching in forums and we found out he has salmonella, his symptoms are as follows:

* Lower and swollen left wing, although he stretches both wings and has attempt to fly a couple of times but really low. He also preens himself quite often.

* Mostly stays at the same spot tho he moves sometimes up and down and doesnt show any articulation problem on his feet.

* He eats and drink very little, so we have started feeding him and giving the meds with a syringe. He has taken salmonella antibiotic called Tetra 250 capsule and vitamins for the last 2 days and he does look more energetic since.

* His droppings were very green at first and since meds they turned lighter green, a bit watery and with white bits.

* We have read also that its important to give him in the meantime probiotics but we have just found that out and we dont know which ones to buy.

We will attach a picture in the morning, if anyone can please give us some advice on how to take best care of him we would really appreciated, also any other effective antibiotic against salmonella.

Thanks a lot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,989 Posts
Hi, welcome to the forum.

This medicine, Tetra 250, contains tetracycline. Its ineffective for Salmonella ; it will treat respiratory illness and some rarer illnesses like staph/strep infections.

So I can't really explain the improvement you described. Your bird either doesn't have salmonella, or it has some sort of co-infection perhaps. It might also be responding well to warmth, regular food and water, as it may have been starving before you found the poor little thing.

What you need is a medicine called `Baytril', if the pigeon does have Salmonella. Some other options are enroflox or ciprofloxacin, which are other names for the same kind of medicine as Baytril. Not sure where you could get them in Turkey, apart from a vet.

Finally, probiotics are a type of `beneficial' bacteria. The antibiotics will simply kill all bacteria (including beneficial), so its no real use to give probiotics until after the antibiotics are finished.

PS.Some other causes for drooping wings can be muscle strain due to an injury, and starvation due to another illness like coccidia etc.

Hope some of that helps- sorry I don't know where to get Baytril in Turkey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
Welcome, Jazztel! Thank you for helping this bird!

Salmonella (also called paratyphoid) is a disease I have treated fairly frequently -- and I do agree that it sounds possible that your bird has it (though other things can cause similar symptoms). How much of the antibiotic are you giving the bird daily?

Tetra 250 is tetracycline, which actually isn't the best treatment if this is salmonella -- the most effective antibiotic against salmonella is Baytril, which is sold in a generic form under the name enrofloxacin or enroflaxyn. A close cousin of this drug, norfloxacin, also works well.

I use the enroflaxyn tablets found here:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-paratyphoid.html

I've also heard good recommendations for this product: I'm pretty sure this vendor ships internationally --

http://www.pigeonsproducts.com/salmonella-tab-by-pantex-720?keyword=Salmonellosis

My probiotic of choice is Health Gard, which can be found here:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-pro-biotics.html

With Baytril, I generally give a preventive treatment for yeast -- in addition to probiotics. I use a product called Medistatin, which you can find here:

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-651/MEDISTATIN-100-g-(Medpet)/Detail.bok



What are you feeding the bird right now?

Also, It's good to provide supportive heat to a sick bird -- I put them on a heating pad, set on low, and covered with a towel or soft cloth.

Since you are in Turkey, I don't know what medicines are readily available to you, but this gives you an idea where to start.

If you could try to get a close-up of the wing swelling, that would be really helpful. Also, if you can post a picture of the dropping, that also helps.

Since the tetracycline seems to be making a difference, I would continue that until you can get some of the enrofloxacin --
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
Bella -- great minds think alike, eh? We were posting at the same time, and saying basically the same thing.

I'm also not sure why the bird is improving on the tetracycline, but it does seem to be making a difference, so it may be that the bird has E Coli instead, which can look a lot like salmonella, and does often respond to the cyclines. Some strains of salmonella respond to the cyclines, too, though they generally aren't as effective as the fluoroquinolones

Or, it is a combined infection -- most of the paratyphoid birds I see have other infections going on too, since salmonella opens the door to just about everything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thank you guys. We are currently feeding the bird bread. He also has wheat in front of him in a plate. We are giving like 0.5 mg every day. We'll try to acquire the medicines you listed tomorrow, and take a picture of him and post here. Since its night here, we dont want to pester him so much for taking his picture since we are keeping the room we are sitting with him rather dark. We'll update this in a few hrs and Thanks again!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
See if you can get some pigeon seeds. In the mean time, defrosted peas and corn (the frozen kind) are good -- if you warm them up to room temperature, you can feed them to the bird one at a time ... open the beak and place the pea inside, toward the back -- they generally swallow automatically.

Letting it rest in the dark is good -- that really helps them recover.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,047 Posts
Do the droppings smell bad? That is one of the symptoms of salmonella. The wing could be broken at the joint. The green droppings could be due to starvation were he unable to find food?
I realize you are in Turkey and I don't know if you have pet stores like we do in the US. If so, do look for a dove mix. If you don't have a pet store, perhaps you can find a grain mix that is sold to feed chickens. To it you can add dried peas, lentils, brown rice. You can also add those items to the dove mix if you find it.

If you are going to hand feed the peas and corn...you will need to hand feed quite a lot of them. Here are pre-written instruction, for a young pigeon that hasn't learned to eat on his own. The work just as well for an adult pigeon.

You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines them without hurting them and makes it easier to handle. With babies that have been hand raised, this won't be necessary. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the mouth and over the throat. You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding and every time the bird’s crop empties until you know he is eating on his own.

The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas and corn make it lumpy and squishy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,989 Posts
Bella -- great minds think alike, eh? We were posting at the same time, and saying basically the same thing.

.
Hey yeah! Sorry for not seeing your post before posting mine!

I do think you have a really great mind:) Tons of experience too by sounds of it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
Bella -- I think we were probably both writing at the same time....

Thanks for the sweet compliment! I also value your experience and your contributions to this board. I think you have a great mind, too :)

I'm just now starting to feel somewhat experienced ... I've been rehabbing since 2005, when I was a complete beginner to pigeons, and I ended up saving two babies, and hand rearing them. (I still have both of them).

I learned a lot from our old poster FeralPigeon, who lived near me, and was willing to teach me... she taught me how to crop feed, how to do an injection on a bird, and the basics of diagnosis and treatment. I also learned a ton from reading this board ... the archives are full of information that covers just about every possible topic.

After that, I was totally hooked, and I've done a lot of learning by researching, and by doing. I feel pretty confident handling most issues at this point, though there's always more to learn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Hello guys, a pharmacy nearby ordered Baytril for us and we are gonna get it tomorrow. In the meantime we are feeding him with corn. Here are the pictures of his left wing and droppings. We dont think the wing is due to broken or injured cause he doesnt show pain and he stretches them and preens. We will keep updating. thanks
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,047 Posts
Pigeons don't have an expression for pain. Because of that, some contend they don't feel pain, which is not true at all.
Does the poop smell bad? That would be an indication of salmonella.
Also, have you felt and looked, where the wing connects to the pigeon's body, for a break? You should be able to feel it if it's broken. It would be quite swollen at the joint.
Beautiful little pigeon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Charis, we have examined pigeons wing and yes, we missed it out but there is hard lump in his wing. Could this mean that its a broken joint? and if it is a broken joint or his wing is broken, how are we going to treat him ?Also the droppings dont smell too bad, like if you are pretty close they smell a little but we dont really know weather this is bad enough. we have little experience with pigeons so we really appreciate your advice. We were gonna get Baytril tomorrow, what shall we do now? Also his dropping have started to have more white bits on it. Thanks a lot
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,221 Posts
The way you took the pic from above, seems like the swollen joint is between 18 & 19, but from the first pic looks like there's some damage on between 16 & 17

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
This swelling is right on the joint, which is a very, very common place for paratyphoid (salmonella) to cause swelling.

Does the joint on this wing feel significantly bigger than on the other wing?

I'd go ahead and treat with the Baytril, if this were my rescue. E Coli and Salmonella can both cause joint swelling, and Baytril is very effective against salmonella, and against many strains of E Coli, too.

This type of wing drooping could also be from an injury, but I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to a possible bacterial infection. Salmonella can get severe very fast if it isn't treated promptly,

Salmonella droppings don't always have a terribly strong smell. These aren't the classic, dark vivid green that often comes along with salmonella, but they don't look healthy, either.

This really is a beautiful pigeon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thanks minimonkey! we are just about to go and get it. How long will it take to see any improvements if swollen joint is cause by salmonella? and how much of Batryl do we have to give him? Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
How is your baytril dosed? Is it liquid? Pills?

Generally the dose for an average adult pigeon is around 7.5 milligrams per day, preferably given in two doses ...

When you get it, let us know, and someone will be able to help with the dosing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
We got 2.5% 100 ml baytril, its oral solution. We were reading about the dosage in this forum, it was kinda of confusing, hopefully we got it right tho pigeon seems a bit sleepy and we noticed last nite that he was shivering a little. We have given him 0,2 ml in 7 ml of water. Is this correct? Is it good to keep him warm? we read the shivers can also we due to salmonella. Thanks a lot for helping us
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
It is a bit confusiong -- but that sounds about right, yes.

I don't suppose you know the bird's exact weight, do you?

Most formularies call for 15 mg/kg of bodyweight, for Baytril.

The 2.5% solution contains 25 mg of the drug per ml/cc -- so, using 15 mg/kg as the dose, the amount to give for each 100 grams of weight would be 0.06 cc/ml.

100 grams 0.06 cc/ml
200 grams 0.12 cc/ml
300 grams 0.18 cc/ml
400 grams 0.24 cc/ml

Assuming your bird is between 300 and 400 grams (most adult ferals are, unless they are really underweight) then 0.2 cc is the right dosage. Adding some water into the mix is good... I've heard that Baytril solution can burn a bit otherwise.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top