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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,
I've been following this forum since my dad brought home a baby pigeon on Tuesday night. She was found on the ground, and there have been sightings of cats nearby therefore, my dad quickly salvaged it. He brought her home and as the only person who isn't working (just left my job a few weeks ago), it's up to me to care for the little one.

According to the speedpigeon's website, she looks about 13-15 days old when found. It's been 4.5 days and she still looks the same. Am I doing anything wrong?

Diet - I've been giving her Kaytee Exact, mixed with boiling water and left to cool slightly. I always do a testing on my wrist to make sure its not crazy hot before I feed her.

Feeding - For the earlier 2 days, I used a baby bottle but she was slurping a lot of air. Now I've changed to the syringe method attached with a baby-bottle nipple, and she usually gets 20ml (3 times a day 8am, 1pm and 6pm). Is this amount ok? After every feed, I give her boiled water cooled to lukewarm.

Supplement - Yesterday, I added ACV to her warm drinking water and made her drink it twice after meals. Today, I added probiotics into her food and fed her twice (8am and 1pm). As I can only find human probiotics (for infant and babies) in a sachet powder form, how much should i add into her food? The whole sachet seems too much for her tiny crop, so I added just a few shakes. Is that sufficient?

Nest - I'm using 2 different basket interchangeably for her nest. One is made of wood (it looks fake, maybe not really wood) and a square plastic one. Newspaper as base, lined with white napkin, and then topped with crushed white towels. I switch the entire nest on alternate days, and my dad washes the other one with Dettol before we dry it to use for the next day.

Hygiene - Since I'm at home all the time, I change her towels after every 2 poops. I can't stand the sight of them! She always have fresh clean towels but unfortunately, the same can't be said about her coat. Every feed leaves a nightmare and it's hard to clean her when she nozzles my hand all the time! Is she too young for a bath?

Poops - They look plump but I am a little concern about some of them. I've looked at some of the links in the forums and they look like those salmonella ones. Should I be worried?

Preening - She seems to be itchy all the time, digging into her feathers. I'm afraid she might have some lice. I saw the product below in the supermarket but wasnt sure if i should get it. Is it safe to use on her feathers? What if she preens herself and accidentally consumes the dust? Is it dangerous?

Anti-ant Duster
Anti-Ant is a dusting powder based on Permethrin (a syntheitic pyrethroid), for the control of crawing insect such as ants, cockroaches, bedbugs, fleas, beetles, silver fishes, crickets, etc., in kitchens, lawns, gardens and round the houses. It is practically non toxic to humans and warm-blooded animals.

Vet - We're thinking of taking her to the vet for a check up. Just to check her lungs, crop, feathers, presence of lice, if she has broken any bones, wings check, etc. As vets in Singapore are super expensive, any advice I can get from this forum is very valuable.

Behaviour - She is one heck of a chirper! She squeaks at the slightest thing and begs for food all the time. Is she hungry or is this normal? She is really hyper, flapping her wings and jumping out of her nest and leaving mushy souvenirs onto our marble floor! She used to laze around after feeding time, but for the past 2 days, she constantly chirps and makes more noise. Is this normal?

My concern is that, despite all those in the past 4.5 days, she doesn't look like she's grown and no signs of new feathers. Please advise!

Also, my initial plan was to care for her and then release her at a nearby park but we've been too attached to her and she has contact with too many humans already (we have 4 ppl in the house). I'm a little concern about her lack of pigeon socializing... and there are no pigeon rehabilitation centres in Singapore. What do I do?

Thanks in advance for your help!
 

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Hi Miss-S,


Can you post some fairly close-up images of her?

And, some good close up images of the poops?


Please see if you can be more accepting of her poops.


Just use white Paper Towels to line the Cage bottom, and change these out each morning.


You can feed small whole Seeds ( Finch or Canary Mix) by shaping your brought-together Fingers to function as a parent's Beak...Seeds roll down the trough into the assertively Nuzzling opening-and-closing Beak of the youngster -


About as seen in this image, of me Daddy-Feeding an older youngster.

This works very well for those who are two weeks old also.


 

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As far as socializing her to he Wild kin...begin "NOW", bringing her to the Park...elect a sensible spot, scatter Seed for the Wild birds, set her 'there' among the scattered Seeds, and crouch down five feet away or so ( keeping your arms still, just stay still and no arm or hand motions ) just you, no extra people close... and supervise.

Keep your attention on her and if need be step in and scold any Birds bothering her if she does not manage to do it herself.


Do this every day for fifteen or twenty minutes....from now till she is about able to fly.


She will be able to learn what she needs...including pecking, self assertion and modes of awareness and response.


Most two week olds will learn all this after only a couple sessions...and be pecking, wing slapping or Beak lunging to rebuke any other Birds crowding them or eating 'their' Seeds, etc.

Once she is able to fly a little, cease the sojournes, and wait.

When released, at say 55 days old or so, release to that spot and those Birds.
 

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Formula wise...best to mix and freeze, and then correct any consistency issues by adding more water...

Just prepare and mix in a Coffee or Tea Cup using cold Water...Freeze for a while...then thaw/warm it then in a Sauce Pan of hot water, stirring soon as thawed...adding additional Water if need be.

Never microwave.

Formula should be about like melted Ice Cream on a hot day...and be about body temperature when served.


Otherwise, the mixture is not hydrated well, and will absorb further Water in the Crop and make problems or cause illness.

Hot tap Water is also full of Anaerobes which are bad for Babys.

If having to use Tap Water, use the 'Cold' and let it run for a couple minutes first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi pdpbison,
Thank you very much for the kind advice! I will take some pictures of her (and the poops) tonight. The one about the park is an excellent idea! I will try that soon. I will also try the finger-seeds method like you've shown.

For the mixture, I used boiled water, meaning normal tap water that has been boiled and left to cool. Is that ok? But now, I will do the sauce-pan thing, as you've advised. Thanks again.

I have another problem though:
1) Now she has diarrhea poops - the colour is now turning alarmingly yellowish and super watery (will post pictures soon!)
2) She is also extremely hyper. Maybe a bit too active. She squeaks like there is no tomorrow and gets way too excited, flapping her wings crazily and chirping nonstop. I ignore her most of the time, but as soon as she hears my voice (when I'm talking to my family), she goes hysterical again. I can't be in the same room without her going nuts. Is she sick? Is it a cry for help? Is she hungry? What's wrong with her?

Again, thank you very much for your help! Totally appreciate it. I'm so attached to her I want the best for this lil monster. Her name is Krik-Krik (my dad insists it's a dude, but I think it's a she), Should I bring her to a vet to get those poops tested?
 

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Hi

They are not 'normal', though youngsters wouldn't necesssarily have well rounded, compact poops and a Kaytee diet would tend to make them looser. This poop is from a healthy adult on a normal diet of pigeon mix:



A vet may be able to analyse a sample of the droppings and check for any specific problem and advise treatment if necessary, if they are at all familiar with birds.

20ml three times a day should be OK. Frankly, I wouldn't bother with making her drink ACV water after each feed - it's fine if put in water a couple of times a week really, as it just helps to get the right ph balance in the gut for beneficial bacteria to flourish, and she obviously needs to learn to drink on her own.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks John for the input.

I'll take her to a vet soon and get a full check up. Avian vets are rare here and even so, it will cost my lifetime savings!

Attached are pictures of Krik-Krik. As you can see, she is bald in certain areas, behind neck, crop belly, and under her wings. I'm not sure if its because the feathers are not grown yet, or is something wrong with her?

Am I allowed to bathe her? Should I be providing bath tub for her to clean herself? She seems uncomfortable with the dried Kaytee that have spilled over her coat. She is super hyper, it's impossible to keep her down to clean her coat! And I don't want to handle her in case I accidentally hurt her, she seems so fragile...
 

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I agree, ACV probably isn't necessary at this point.

1) I want to say, quite honestly....if she is now 20 days old....please do NOT take her to an open space and pluck her down amongst the ferals, loose and free. I agree wholeheartedly with the premise of acclimating, and that 20 days old is not too young to start. But please put her in a cage or carrier with visually 'open' sides all around.
It need not be large, maybe 18" square or so. Then you can just put the cage on the ground and sprinkle seed around it, and the flock will come and surround the cage and forage.

I say this because, seriously...one just never knows what might happen with a loose, rescued baby amongst a flock of adult ferals.....in an open, unenclosed exterior space.
Too many stories of folks who thought they had all of the exit routes covered, thought they had the baby in a safe situation...then something 'unexpected' happened. Could be a loud noise, or a predator unbeknownst to the caregiver, or a jerk of a human passerby, or a nice gust of wind which actually allows the flapping baby to lift. The cage works just as well and provides so much more security. There is no add'l benefit to free and open, but tons of add'l risk.

2) The permethrin powder will work...you can also just get flea powder from a pet store and use that; but I believe flea powder is permethrin, too. Cover her eyes, mouth, and nares (nostrils) and dust her lightly...rub the powder into the wings and body, then sorta brush her off a bit. Put her down and if she has lice, you sill see them first come to the surface of her feathers, then drop off and die.

3) At 20 days, you can start feeding her peas and corn, by "veggie popping". Get some frozen, thaw it under hot tap water (don't use microwave) antil the insides aren't cold any longer. Let cool to lukewarm. Open her beak gently and 'pop' them into the back of her throat, one at a time. Close the beak and she'll swallow. (If she starts shaking her head, it is lodged, so open the beak and remove it - although this very rarely happens).

For her age, about 25-30/day would suffice, break it up into 3 or 4 separate feedings. In about 5 days, increase to 35-45/day.

You have done a great job so far...keep it up. Thanks for saving her ! She's a cutie.

Remember, she is not releasable until 8 weeks old, minimum. You may read 6-7 weeks in some places. No...don't do that...still too young and you wanna maximize her chances, not just get 'er outta the house.
And you must do a complete 'soft release' regimen before releasing.
 

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Hi Miss-S,



Hard to say what the poops are showing...make sure she is allowed to drink off and on through the day.

If you guide her Beak with your fingertips to tepid Water, keeping your finger tips n her Beak, she will drink.


If this is a youngster you have already had a week or so, and they accept you as their stand in parent...they will not go running off if set to be among the grazing ferals with your five foot away supervision.

A cage in that context would not work and would prevent interaction, which is a big part of what she must master.

I did not know you were in Singapore.


Candida infections are common with how people tend to mix and serve formula instantly, so that may be what we are seeing some beginnings of.

If you can get real Apple Cider Vinegar, mix up three Tablespoons of it into a Gallon of pure Water, or Boiled Water which has cooled.

Use it for her formula mixing, and for her drinking for the next 7 days.


See how the poops go.


Do not try amd bathe her...in a few weeks she will be naturally interested in bathing, and will gladly bathe if provided with a bathing pan of cool Water.


You will be able to tell by how she is acting with her drinking Water bowl, once she is ready.


You can soak-blot areas which have formula on them, and work off the softened formula with your finger-nails.


Best wishes!


Phil
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Jaye,
Thank you. It does makes sense. There are a lot of crows here and my dad has personally seen an adult pigeon being attacked. Unfortunately, he was driving and unable to save it. I'm a little worried about KK being attacked by crows too if left in the open.

ok, about the permethrin powder, the thing is... She's crazy hyper! How do I calm her down? I tried wrapping her in a towel but she escaped easily, and she has mastered the art of neck twisting! It's almost impossible to handle her! Is there a certain method to get baby pigeons to cooperate?

I'll try both the seed feeding method and the popping seeds and see which works. Krik-Krik is a cutie isnt she? Too bad I can't cuddle her! Thanks for the advice, Jaye! Much appreciated!

Hi Phil,
Again, thanks for all your help! I hope Candida isn't serious, I'm not a fan of medication. Is hyper-activity part of the condition? She seriously, is one hysterical bird. She doesn't stop chirping, screaming bloody murder! My neighbours probably think we're torturing her! From your experience, is this normal? Or is she crying for attention cos she's sick?

I have changed the feeding preparation into the one you've suggested. Now, I'm warming the mixture in a sauce pan before feeding her. I hope that will help. Her crop isn't bloated though. It clears at an acceptable speed and flattens before the next meal.

The ACV I'm using is "Braggs". Ok, I'll continue mixing it with the feed and also add into the drinking water. Thanks!

She knows how to drink by herself and she always takes the opportunity to wash her face, beak, etc. I think she may be desperate for a bath but should I wait another week, just in case? Do birds drink from the bathing tub? If so, should I put warm 'drinkable water' in case she drinks it? Don't wanna risk tap water bacteria getting in her crop...

Apologies for asking too many questions. This is the first time I'm rescuing a bird and I'm completely clueless. Thanks very much for this forum and all your kind help! I will update on the progress!

Have a blessed day everyone!
 

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Hi Miss-S,


Hi Jaye,
Thank you. It does makes sense. There are a lot of crows here and my dad has personally seen an adult pigeon being attacked. Unfortunately, he was driving and unable to save it. I'm a little worried about KK being attacked by crows too if left in the open.

No one said anything about "LEAVING" a youngster in the open.

I had said, PICK A SENSIBLE SPOT where the PArk Pigeons already graze and forrage...scatter Seed for the already wild/feral Pigeons...set your youngster there amid the Seeds...REMAIN CLOSE - like five feet away, crouching - AND SUPERVISE...have your attention on the youngster.

There is no other successful method of socializing them to the wild modes an reflexes and awares and assertiveness they need to acquire, and need to acquire by actual experience.

Cages set out will not do it.


Allowed to learn and acquire these things "now" pays off very well later...where they may be released to that 'spot'.


Later is too late to begin...and you only have a small window left to work with for this.


ok, about the permethrin powder, the thing is... She's crazy hyper! How do I calm her down? I tried wrapping her in a towel but she escaped easily, and she has mastered the art of neck twisting! It's almost impossible to handle her! Is there a certain method to get baby pigeons to cooperate?
Permethrin...for what?


I'll try both the seed feeding method and the popping seeds and see which works.


There is no 'seeing which works', there is either doing something correctly, or having no patience or interest to bother, and seeking expedients which ruin or compromise further things.


Either will work for the time being...so would lots of other things.


The idea also is for them to be an active agent IN being fed, and or to be fed in a natural way which they are asking for...hence, the image and info I had offered.


If they are 'Nuzzling', you can also guide their Beak into a deepish small Bowl of whole small Seeds, and, keeping your finger tips on their Beak, they will 'gobble' the seeds just as if from theor parent's Throat.


If it does not seem to work, then try again in a slightly different way, since you have to get your side of things right...the Bird knows what to do and it is you the care giver who needs to adjust or learn to adapt to what the Bird needs...not the other way around.

I could do this with your Bird in two seconds, and, also have them self feeding by effecient independent pecking in fifteen minutes.


What 'works' is doing things in the Bird's terms instead of imposing superficial conveniences of the care giver, merely...while imagining that is 'good enough' so why bother with anything more.



Guiding their Beak into a small deep cup of small whole appropriate kinds of Seeds, is a very effecient and satisfying to them of feeding method, and, will also very soon lead to their pecking effectively...they need to 'feel' your finger tip pads ON their Beak in a way which is like mom or dad's Throat was when their biological parents were feeding them.


This is some of your Bird's desperate frustrations and implorings...is...asking for 'that'...for the right tactile and interactive elements.



Can you get them 'Nuzzling'? ( Asserting with their Beak, asking to be fed?)



Forcing Seeds into their mouth is totally un-necessary...as well as tedious and ineffecient...an will continue to frustrate the youngster who WANTS something else and keeps asking for something else.


Krik-Krik is a cutie isnt she? Too bad I can't cuddle her! Thanks for the advice, Jaye! Much appreciated!

And, why can't you cuddle her?



Hi Phil,
Again, thanks for all your help! I hope Candida isn't serious, I'm not a fan of medication.

It can kill them.


Is hyper-activity part of the condition? She seriously, is one hysterical bird. She doesn't stop chirping, screaming bloody murder! My neighbours probably think we're torturing her! From your experience, is this normal? Or is she crying for attention cos she's sick?

Deficient diet...not enough food, no Seeds, no satisfying feeding method for the Bird's satisfaction in their terms of what they want...often makes for a period of increasng despertion in the youngster, asking desperately for something which has been missing nutritionally and tactile-wise and inter-active wise and otherwise..


I have changed the feeding preparation into the one you've suggested. Now, I'm warming the mixture in a sauce pan before feeding her. I hope that will help. Her crop isn't bloated though. It clears at an acceptable speed and flattens before the next meal.

Okay...

The ACV I'm using is "Braggs". Ok, I'll continue mixing it with the feed and also add into the drinking water. Thanks!

She knows how to drink by herself and she always takes the opportunity to wash her face, beak, etc. I think she may be desperate for a bath but should I wait another week, just in case?

If she seems to want a Bath, then fill a Frying Pan or similar thing with cool Tap Water, set it on the floor on a Towel and let her have a Bath as she pleases.

Do birds drink from the bathing tub?


Not particularly.


If so, should I put warm 'drinkable water' in case she drinks it? Don't wanna risk tap water bacteria getting in her crop...

Then boil the Water first, let it cool...use that.

Pigeons like 'cool' Water for Bathing.


Apologies for asking too many questions. This is the first time I'm rescuing a bird and I'm completely clueless. Thanks very much for this forum and all your kind help! I will update on the progress!

Have a blessed day everyone!

Best wishes!


Phil
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Another image, just made, showing the youngster opening his Beak for being fed by the 'Daddy-Beak-Hand' arrangement -


I fed about two ounces of Seeds in about 60 seconds.





This is not a Baby I had raised, but, an 'ooops' Baby who's dad then got sick, and is in a convelescent cage presently, and who's mom is handicapped and had not got to the chow line herself yet, so both youngsters were hungry.


So, this youngster is not used to me or to me feeding them, and, we got things worked out in like two seconds.


This is a very good method, please do not disparage it if for trying it for briefly for the first time, you do not manage it right, stay on it till you do manage it right.

Your Hand tilts toward them for the Seeds to roll into their opening mouth/Beak...let them swallow, tilt Hand again, etc...there is a rythum, a cadance, which the youngster knows...so like having a dancing pardner, follow "them", where in this case, the youngster will subtley guide you into how this is done.



Phil
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the pictures. The little one in the socializing pics looks a lot like KK so let's hope that works for her too.

I'll go to the birdshop to get some proper seeds. What I have now probably isn't appetizing to her (black sesame seeds) and maybe that's why she simply refuses to eat that way. I'll keep trying.

Will cuddling and talking to her be a set back if I plan to release her into the wild when she's older? Too much human interaction?

I've prepared a bath tub for her to cleanse herself as she wishes. And yes, it's cool boiled water (just in case!)

The permethrin mentioned earlier is for lice. There aren't visible but she seems uncomfortable and keeps nuzzling her beak into her feathers. I think she's also uncomfortable about the dried Kaytee splash on her coat. If she bathes regularly, maybe permethrin isn't necessary...

Thanks for the advice. I'll continue to try the seed feeding method.
I hope KK turns out fine. She seems active and strong, also inquisitive.

I'll take pics when we go to the park tomorrow!
Thanks very much Phil!
 

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Hi Phil,
Thanks for the pictures. The little one in the socializing pics looks a lot like KK so let's hope that works for her too.

If the youngster is distrusting or not bonded well to the care giver, and, is old enough to run well...then this will not tend to work well, because the youngster will instead see the occasion as an oppoortunity for escape...and try running away.

So, the method presumes there is a bond and trust and that the youngster regards the person "as" a stand-in parent.

Lots of verbal praise and admiring looks are good to do also, of course...assurances or re-assurances if needed.


The youngster will usually be looking to the Care Giver for cues or status updates or other kinds of communication things.





I'll go to the birdshop to get some proper seeds. What I have now probably isn't appetizing to her (black sesame seeds) and maybe that's why she simply refuses to eat that way. I'll keep trying.

Black sesame Seeds would be spurrned by just about any Pigeon on earth of any age.

So, yes, get some good actual "Pigeon Mix" if there are any Farm and Feed Stores in your area...and, if not, get Finch or Canary Seed mix at petsmart, and get some White Safflower Seeds also to add to it.


Will cuddling and talking to her be a set back if I plan to release her into the wild when she's older? Too much human interaction?

I cuddle and kiss and do 'Hand Nest' and so on with any Babys I raise.


I am their Daddy, and I do everything a Daddy would do, and, they all become fiercely independent and the Bond dissolves as they acquire their skills and modes of independence, just as it would with their biological Dad or Mom.


Once flying, do not allow them to land on or perch on you...otherwise, cuddle all you like for now, and gradually ease up on it as they continue to grow and develop...offer praise and admirations and positive 'mirroring' in every way...and respect their growing up as a progress toward independence.

Cuddling should easy up as the begin flying or a little before, while Daddy-Feed or Momma-Feeds continue for a while yet.


One does not want to inadvertently confuse them with sensations or stimulations which in their mind could be those of a Mate...so, one eases off as they are developing, as far as cuddles and kisses go, and or the youngster decided he or she has had enough of that anyway, and you can tell then they are done with that stuff.



I've prepared a bath tub for her to cleanse herself as she wishes. And yes, it's cool boiled water (just in case!)

Once she is near it, you can splash and wiggle-splash your fingers in it to invite her to Bathe.

She may also like to have water strizzled onto her as she lays in the Water raising a Wing...


The permethrin mentioned earlier is for lice. There aren't visible but she seems uncomfortable and keeps nuzzling her beak into her feathers. I think she's also uncomfortable about the dried Kaytee splash on her coat. If she bathes regularly, maybe permethrin isn't necessary...


They need to do endless preening...it is normal.

Adding fresh ( non rancid, not a bottle opened months ago which sits on a shelf, but "Fresh" ) Olive Oil to her formula, and or lightly glistening her Seeds with it, is very good for them nutritionally, and also cuts down on the itching which dry skin can cause.


If she had Body Lice, you would be finding them on your Hands from handling her, they are quite visible also, almost as large as Sesime Seeds...and...Lice are very quick to matriculate to any new opportunities.

So, if you have not found any Lice crawling on your Hands, I would say do not bother with the Permectrin or anything else...and to conclude she is merely about a normal level of preening all those growing Feathers.

They grunt or make sounds and or appear to preen quite aggressively sometimes...all normal...


Thanks for the advice. I'll continue to try the seed feeding method.
I hope KK turns out fine. She seems active and strong, also inquisitive.

I'll take pics when we go to the park tomorrow!
Thanks very much Phil!

I expect she will turn out splendidly..!


Talk with her too...explain the Park deal and what it is about, and how you will stay close and guard her.


Crouch low stay still, keep your arms down, so the Wild Birds will not be alarmed or spooky.


If need be, back off to ten feet, or see...feel it out, as for what you need to do for the situation.


If the Wild Birds all bolt, maybe there is a reason which is not you...so be alert...enter into their mode.


If you have Hawks in your area, be alert, and be prepared to rush in and scoop up your youngster.


Likely she will be VERY aware of the Sky...even yellow 'Down Babys' are very aware of things moving in the Sky...so, watch how she is watching things.

If she hugs the ground, head tilted, looking "up", then something up there is frieghtening her.

The other Birds will of course be very aware of all these things also...




Best wishes,


Phil
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the awesome tips Phil!

I've bought the canary mix and she has started pecking and eating them from the floor. It seems completely natural and she's getting the hang of it. But since I'm sitting there, she frequently begs me for the formula. I gently say no, and continue pecking the floor with my finger. She follows and continue eating. Once she's finished the pinch of seeds on the floor, I'll feed her the formula. It works!

I tried bathing her today in a huge basin, big enough for her to circle and spread her wings competely. She did drink some of the water, so thankfully, it was cooled boiled water. Halfway through cleansing, she pooped and I had to remove her. It didnt work out. I'm going to try another bathing method tomorrow. My concern is the dried Kaytee, she looks really uncomfortable and they have hardened. Once those are off and she feeds only seeds, I'll continue the "natural" pigeon bath.

Ok, now I have another problem. The nearest park is populated with dogs, running children and joggers. I've never actually seen any pigeons in there, and it's way too busy. Since Singapore isn't tolerant of pigeons and if I am caught feeding them, I will get arrested. I dont mind going to jail for KK, but what I'm more afraid of is the officials "confiscating" her.

My other option will be at the foot of my apartment. I've seen some wild pigeons feeding in clutter (sadly, only about 8 max?). However, that area is also home to about 5 fat cats. These cats get fed by a good samaritan 3 times a day and are humongously overweight. Their agility mirrors that of Garfield. I've seen them try to "chase" after the birds but always unsuccessfully, and their attempt seems half-hearted. I'm in a huge dilemma. Is it 'safe' to release KK to my neighbourhood? The wild pigeons seems fine, and I've never seen an injured one in this area before.

Plus points - Fellow pigeons, partly domesticated, living close to humans. Close proximity to MY home, and I can do regularly visit or occasionally throwing some seeds to "help" KK & friends along...

Minus points - Fat lazy cats around the area. Possible risk. (But they are NEVER short of food. The samaritan is famous for overfeeding them!)

Would appreciate your thoughts and advice on this. This decision will affect 'where' I socialize KK...

I wish I have a garden but alas, I live on the 9th storey and absolutely no room to house her when she's a full adult. Sigh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Oh by the way, KK cuddled me today!

It was honestly, one of the most enlightening/enriching/glorious moment of my life! She hopped out of the basket when I sat across her. She started preening, and grunting, and expecting me to watch her. I did, and naturally rested my hands on the floor. She walked over and casually wriggled into my hands and sat there. She murmured and began resting. It was sooo heartening! I knew then that she truly loves me! Awwww....

I didnt move my hands and allowed her to snuggle for a good 25 minutes! By then, my shoulder were beginning to ache and I carried her back into the basket, and she sat there, content. WOW!

Pigeons are the most beautiful, intelligent and lovable creatures ever! No wonder they are viewed as sacred and special. My experience with KK certainly made me a believer. She is just a gem. It's been 5 days and we have such intuitive bond. I will miss her sooo much when she's a big girl....
 

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Hi Miss-S,



Glad to hear you allowed her to cuddle a little.


The appreciate physical forms of emotional acceptence and security, same as any other child or young creature.


Somehow I thought you had a good Pigeon friendly Park near you.



Unless she can be socialized NOW ( you do not have much time left ) she would not do well when 'released' since she would not know what to do or how to do it or how to be with other wild Pigeons or have the necessary shift into the needed modes of attunement and awareness.


The exercises I suggest are necessary.


In Nature, they are fed by their parents untill well after flying competently, where, following Dad to foraging sites, he continues to feed them as they also learn to peck, and, learn to have the modes of being and awareness for being with and tuned into the other Wild Birds.



See what you can find, for a safe sensible place where Pigeons already graze comfortably...since the socialization spot will also be the release spot.


Pigeon parents differ from individual to individual...some spend more time with this-age youngsters than others...and usually it is the dad who continues to feed or preen them or cuddle a little with them or spend short interludes with them, from now till they are flying well enough to follow him for the final phases of their learning and impending indepenedence.


So...see what you can find for a spot for her socialization forays...


Try the 'Hand Beak' for feeding her Seeds where she can eat about as if from a Pigeon parent...


Like this -




Your Fingers as I have mine, thumb on top of his Beak...Seeds in your Hand roll down into his opening-and-closing Beak
Work with her pecking skills, also...


Feed formula also, once a day anyway...


Keep up the good work!


Phil
Las Vegas
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks Phil for the encouragement.

Today's socializing didn't work out as I had hoped for. We brought Krik-Krik to the pigeon grazing spot downstairs but the sky turned dark showing signs of thunderstorm. To our pleasant surprise however, the pigeon population looks healthy, not 8, but maybe about 20 of them. There also seems to be a Pigeon-Mynah alliance as they can be seen grazing together.

My dad laid out some seeds on the pavement. I released KK but she seems hesitant at first. I took a few steps back (crouch, hands on the ground, very still) but all the pigeons ignored us and didn't come closer to the seeds. It looks as if someone else has been feeding them (hooray for good samaritans!).

As usual, KK made a ruckus... and THEN! I heard increasing sounds of crow.. and the flock of pigeons and mynahs became agitated (they continued to graze though). KK did what you had described. She seems aware of the surrounding, became verrrry quiet... and ran to me. As soon as she hid under me as I was crouching... a pair of crows started flying and circling us...making a lot of noise...

I was REALLY scared. My dad also sensed something, and told me to scoop KK and put her back into the cage. I did, but the crows kept watching us. In the end, we took cover in the lift lobby. When danger was over, KK was more interested in preening than watching the other 'good' birds.

We will keep trying. I will be super watchful but crows are just really mean! They looked like they were gonna attack ME as well...

Anyway, at the end of the day, at least KK got a lesson about predators. She has been exposed to the danger and reacted accordingly (fearful) so I hope natural skills will take its course in future. I didn't know there were crows in my neighbourhood. They seems far more dangerous than the fat lazy cats!

She is naturally pecking seeds now. I'm still trying to seed-feed her as you've shown but boy, does she struggles! I've tried re-adjusting my position, the fingers, the approach, looks like it's gonna take a while for us to achieve this. She seems more at ease pecking them from the floor.

She's less hysterical now after the cuddle. Maybe that's what she wanted? She LOVES it when I do the hand-nest thing, and the contentment on her face... awww...

Apologies we didnt manage to take pictures for the first socializing after the crow drama. I'll try to get some tomorrow!

Thanks for all your patience and kind help, Phil!
Hope you have a great day :)
 
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