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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(To the moderator: I am sorry for posting here in my first post(I am xsr0 but have only previously posted a couple of small posts for help about sick birds). If it doesn't pass your test, please let me know how I can improve/modify my post to fit your guidelines. Ty.)


Hello, and thank you for your time in advance.

I am in singapore, and I have come to realize that the perception of pigeons as "dangerous disease carriers" is rather strong. One factor contributing to this is government-provided information(e.g. images A and B). Through the use of this "public education" and also the widespread conversion to covered rubbish disposal, pigeon numbers have already been reduced to numbers that by rights shouldn't create much money problems.

But recently I believe I have seen poisoning(people talk of dying birds, me having one die on me and bringing a second one to the bird vet where I learnt that it was poisoning). It may be people's complaints that are fueling this; I live in a private condominium block, and apart from the standard squealing out loud when the poisoned/sick bird drinks from the swimming pool, there's other worse stuff that I have witnessed(girls learning that they are dirty and diseased and sick ones unable to escape should be shot with water guns, and town council complaint calls for standing next to a pigeon).

The local government "education" undoubtedly has a large part to play in this:
- Image A is probably an older poster("besides, pigeon droppings can cause food poisoning, lung and brain infections").
- Image B is a current one nearby where I live.
- Image C is the cover of a "trusted major local resource"(http://www.selectbooks.com.sg/getTitle.aspx?SBNum=036166), Winged Invaders: Pest Birds Of The Asia Pacific; With Information On Bird Flu & Other Diseases, by Sodhi, Navjot S.; Ilsa Sharp
(The evil menace that is the pigeon happens to be hidden by the library barcode)
- Image D is some of the text in this trusted major local resource, giving the strong impression that there is a "body of evidence" for transmission of "a litany of 30 diseases" to us.
- If the images are too small to make out the words on them, please let me know and I'll add another comment to type out the text in the images.

I am attempting to distribute some information in my own condominium block(and perhaps the one with the pasted government "advisory") to hopefully reduce the "diseased birds" complaints(to reduce motivations to pacify complaints by poisoning them), and am also trying to find out about the poisoning(as expected, pest control companies did not reply me, and my condominium management also did not reply me). I am also not the owner of my property so I have less leverage, and therefore was hoping that my information distribution will lead to someone getting answers from the condominium management or town council. If these people are still not satisfied with the already low pigeon numbers and/or still choose to cater to resident "complaints", and if PiCAS international(or a similar advisory) is willing to cater to rubbish like this, then I will also try my best to persuade the condominium management to look at alternatives(and am willing to volunteer time to undergo training to take care of lofts and swap out eggs and such).

In view of this, I was hoping that pigeon-lovers here in this forum might be able to help me in my (rather lost atm) endeavors:

- Perhaps someone is a doctor or otherwise has access to reliable sources which can help bolster my credibility and reduce fears(I will need to reference "high-quality sources" since I will be seen to be contradicting "government information"). E.g. being able to credibly suggest that "cryptococcosis" is usually gotten directly from the soil(as opposed to pigeon droppings), or actual numbers of reported psittacosis cases, or even useful things like comparing these to dying in your sleep, traffic accident risks, home accident risks, lightning risks, anything daily you can think of at all and have numbers for, to put things in perspective for my planned information dissemination(my argument would be it would be rational to worry about the thousand-fold everyday risks first before thinking about the so-called "rats on wings").

- Still on sources: I won't be lucky enough to have somebody here that is in the research field and can comment more on this "trusted resource", do I? (I'm perfectly willing to send images of the book from cover to cover if need be; I also have their resource pages for anybody who's interested)

- Perhaps someone has experience with alternative non-lethal pigeon control(with PiCAS international or otherwise). No authority here is going to set aside space for pigeon loft construction, but are the tops of residential blocks viable? My hope was to persuade the condominium management here to take these as an alternative(under the guidance of PiCAS international or otherwise), and if proven successful, perhaps set a precedent for non-lethal control methods for town councils. (Yeah, fat hope I know; but pigeon-feeders are already almost non-exixtent as reflected by low pigeon numbers and *still* there is poisoning up till this day?)

- Perhaps someone has leads to any of the above for me, or quality electronic or book resources that don't come up easily in google searches, or connections to PiCAS, or anything at all.

- Perhaps you are in singapore yourself and can link me up with any work that is already going on or any community that may exist(or wish to be updated on anything I might find or any contacts I might get, even though I have no promises and may not be able to find out or do anything or find anybody in the end).

- And anything, anything at all that could help me in my information dissemination, or better ideas that I am sure I am missing, or anything at all, anything that could be helpful.


My email is [email protected]; I am sorry for the long and unusual post but I am still quite lost at the moment as to what to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ty Skyeking for the links. I know that people here will always "trust" local health authorities more than "some internet website"("trust" = part laziness + part indulging in their idea of a "nice clean safe environment"), but I will try to do what I can. Any "research book resources" or reliable statistics(to show how low parrot fever numbers and other numbers actually are in most developed cities) or anything that specifically discusses the "many evidences of disease from pigeons" that the winged invaders book talks so much about would be especially helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hello,

Just to let people know that I am still keeping eyes on this thread. I've been 100% tied up recently and have had no time to do anything; my current thought is to ask PiCAS if they are an option, and then go to my condo management(I am now sure that they are the ones that did it, even though I really should have been sure before when both them and pest companies were unwilling to communicate with me).

May some expert come and better equip me with knowledge, lol. That book is too powerful, and I know that the management is either consulting "pest control", the town council, the relevant government department, or some combination.
 

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you must know that the world anti-pigeon brainwashing campaign is the most successful propaganda ever since 21st century, ever more thorough and more wicked than north korean propaganda for Kim Jong-un.

And remember it is the Hong Kong government to initiate this campaign, even earlier than Livingstone massacre on trafaglar square pigeons.

It is the Hong Kong government (and media) as the pioneer round the globe to kill pigeons, set up feeding ban and imprison feeders, and educate public pigeons as life-taking disease spreading agent. And then the rest of the world follow. Hong Kong government and Hong Kong people should be cursed. They have been claiming >100000 pigeons life over the years.

If pigeons in other parts of the world suffer, it should be attributed to no one but the Hong Kong government.

Hong Kong government, media and people are the chief culprit of pigeons miserable lives round the world.

I hope to write this into history, so one day if people are clear-minded enough to redraw a fair judgement for pigeons, and repent for their past sins committed on pigeons, Hong Kong will feel shameful and guilty like hell on their past deeds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ty longlive_pigeon for the reply. (Update: I sent PiCAS international my anonymous email anyway; my guess is that I will not get a reply, then I will go talk with my condo management(as a non-owner, which is bad), then I will get nothing, then I will just do my "junk mail" info, partly in the hopes of reducing "complaints", and partly in the hopes that someone with more leverage will communicate with the management. The story may largely end there if I am not able to link up with others, other than perhaps small personal efforts or identifying individual "pigeon feeders" and trying to persuade them.)

(Additional info: I suspect that one significant source of food for the feral pigeons are bun offerings to deities(under trees and public places), but even if my suspicion were true, I doubt that the government will take the effort to introduce and persuade people to use covered boxes with say a plastic screen in front. (not that this *should* be done, but rather that if you are going to cull the pigeon, then how can you skip these steps and create more suffering? I.e. Nobody forced you to cull the pigeon, but if it is a problem for you, then these are the things that you should be prioritizing. My condominium management has replaced their originally 80% covered bins with the classical public 100% covered bin, but I have never ever seen a bird go into the old one to scavenge)

I will say a little more about my feelings on the "ugliness of people"(bearing in mind that I am a person myself). Throughout my "junk mail" writing(I did the little research I could) and throughout my communication with the condo management, I had to constantly overcome my "disgust". For I have seen and talked with this "condo management" before, and I can fully see how at least one of them will without a thought cull pigeons in response to resident fears of "sick birds drinking from the swimming pool". We human beings can be obscene. Here in this city, I "constantly feel disgusted" at a lot of the mainstream things; and I have been "persecuted" before(not about pigeons, nor about political power; it is roughly along the lines of social norms but I won't say further than that).

Longlive_pigeon is obviously more knowledgeable than me about how bird flu has affected pigeon welfare. And as I have said, I have a strong "bias" against my own country as well. But ultimately, I believe it is about human nature in general. I have tried to overcome/hide my "disgust" in the junk mail for at least two reasons: (1) Expressing my disgust will do the pigeon no good, (2) There will always be students who have not developed the "macro perspective" and sees the local government as 99% right and even as a moral authority, i.e. my disgust is not against the "innocent student".

So that's my thinking. And if some of this city's government people happen to be checking this, may you clearly see that this has nothing to do with politics, but my motivation comes from pigeon welfare, and *purely* pigeon welfare.


P.S. to longlive_pigeon: I wouldn't count on people feeling guilty; we have an "amazing"(unfortunate) talent of avoiding those kinds of things even when we catch a glimpse of why we might be wrong. Ty for your reply again. :)
 
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