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I do have another location For Brooklyn Dr. Michael Keocher 718 435-6900
Birds are dropped off -no fee- They will be evaluated and given to a rehabber for care.
Thank you, Tony,
I'm very sorry about the dove. It all seems so unfair.
 

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Tony,

I'm sorry to hear about the dove.

I know it's a moot point now, but I'm curious. What was Dr. Pesek's advice when you spoke with her this morning?

Jennifer
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Well, Tony, I'm sorry you failed to mention that the bird had a broken wing. If you had given that information I would have told you that the WBF is bound by law to PTS any wild native species that cannot be returned to the wild. if the bird only had pox, the girls would have kept it and cured it and released it. Private persons are not allowed to harbor any native species and the licensed rehabbers MUST by law PTS any bird that cannot be released back to the wild. I hope you can understand that they have no choice if they wish to keep their license. If you had only shared the information about the wing, I would not have told you to take it anywhere. With some supportive care you might have saved it...we'll never know now. Please be advised that anyone who has a protected species must hide that fact or relinquish it to the authorized person, either a Vet or licensed rehabber. Please don't be down on WBF, they save a lot more than they have to PTS and they are the most helpful we have here in the NYC area. As it turns out with the wing problem, anyone you went to would have done the same, again I emphasize, they must by law.
Well it's not any ones fault here, nobody knew including me, that the wing was broken. I'm not that upset now. I guess it was the whole driving there and being told there was no other choice that got me more then anything.
I'm sure WBF does a great job and Rita was a wonderful person. I felt she did the best she could, she fed it as soon as I brought into her and I have nothing against her she did say she will keep for a while not sure how long that was but who knows. They know more then me and we live and we learn.

Next time I will be more careful and show better pictures. But what gets me me is the bird did fly to me from the cage right to the spot I fed it from, that's why I didn't think anything was wrong with wing.

Well this is still the best group I found for help and will always come here first if I find another little friend in need. Thanks again to everyone who helped out it's only sad we have these types of laws. I guess they are there for a reason...

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Tony,

I'm sorry to hear about the dove.

I know it's a moot point now, but I'm curious. What was Dr. Pesek's advice when you spoke with her this morning?

Jennifer
Hi Jennifer,
Well that's the thing I never had the chance to bring the dove to Dr. Pesek's. Who knows maybe It would have been different.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
EVALUATED..... what does that mean??? It means IF the bird can be repaired and RELEASED back to the wild, they will repair it.IF THE BIRD CANNOT BE REPAIRED FOR RELEASE...IT MUST BE PTS. That is the law
Good Point to know now, will put that into my long term memory :)

I'm sure this Thread will help others to come, and I'm glade to see so many people with the same love towards birds like I have!

Yes one little one was lost today but hopefully this thread will save more in forthcoming months and years to make up for it!

Tony
 

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Tony and all .. especially Tony ..

I am so very sorry that things ended as they did for this dove, It is very difficult at times to know what is best, and I think we all did try to give you the best advice here on Pigeon-Talk. Sadly, that resulted in the death of the dove. There is nothing I can say that will make that right or OK for you, and my heart goes out to you ..

Tony .. I don't think it is that tough in New York State .. go get your rehabbers license and do it now! Then you can legally care for birds such as this dove.

I rescue and rehab lots and lots of birds, but the ones I take in do not require permits or anything .. I do the underdogs .. sparrows, starlings, pigeons, exotics, and domestics.

Please do feel free to stay with us here on Pigeon-Talk. Again, I am very sorry this ended as it did.

Terry
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
Tony and all .. especially Tony ..

I am so very sorry that things ended as they did for this dove, It is very difficult at times to know what is best, and I think we all did try to give you the best advice here on Pigeon-Talk. Sadly, that resulted in the death of the dove. There is nothing I can say that will make that right or OK for you, and my heart goes out to you ..

Tony .. I don't think it is that tough in New York State .. go get your rehabbers license and do it now! Then you can legally care for birds such as this dove.

I rescue and rehab lots and lots of birds, but the ones I take in do not require permits or anything .. I do the underdogs .. sparrows, starlings, pigeons, exotics, and domestics.

Please do feel free to stay with us here on Pigeon-Talk. Again, I am very sorry this ended as it did.

Terry
Terry,

After this experience I think I am going to get a rehabbers license.
This is one of the best groups I found on Doves and Pigeons and will tell all my friends that have problems to here first.

I am going to start a new thread about the recent decline in my backyard doves. And feel this thread would not be the place I will keep the pictures of the little guy up however, so others can see what to look for. And thanks again for having such a wonderful site!
Tony

If anyone needs Info on becoming a New York State Wildlife Rehabilitator here is the link
Part 184: Wildlife Rehabilitators

Wildlife Rehabilitator License

License to Collect or Possess
 

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Tony .. I don't think it is that tough in New York State .. go get your rehabbers license and do it now! Then you can legally care for birds such as this dove.
Actually, to legally rehab any migratory bird species (which basically means any species other than pigeons, sparrows, and starlings), you need a federal permit, not just a NYS license. The requirements for obtaining a federal permit are much more stringent than that for the state one: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-10b.pdf

Tony, if the bird can fly now, I'm not sure why it would have to be euthanized immediately. The question in my mind is whether he can fly vertically as well as horizontally.

From what I know about Dr. Pesek, she goes out of her way to save each bird. She cares for and provides sanctuary for many different species, and I doubt she would euthanize a bird who couldn't fly.

Jennifer
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
Actually, to legally rehab any migratory bird species (which basically means any species other than pigeons, sparrows, and starlings), you need a federal permit, not just a NYS license. The requirements for obtaining a federal permit are much more stringent than that for the state one: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-10b.pdf

Tony, if the bird can fly now, I'm not sure why it would have to be euthanized immediately. The question in my mind is whether he can fly vertically as well as horizontally.

From what I know about Dr. Pesek, she goes out of her way to save each bird. She cares for and provides sanctuary for many different species, and I doubt she would euthanize a bird who couldn't fly.

Jennifer
Jennifer,
I'm sorry to say it never made it to Dr. Pesek I took the Dove to Animal General in NYC were it was seen by Rita a rehabilitator whom said the dove had a frozen wing and had to be PTS. The Dove was able to fly to me from 10 feet it took off and landed fine I seen the missing feathers she was saying this is a frozen wing. I should have just left with the dove and went for a second opinion. But it is to late now. I have learned from this mistake and it will never happen again.



I think they had no room that's what I think
Tony
 

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So sorry about your little dove! I hope that you take Terry's and Nona's advice, as you would make an excellent rehaber! It would be the best tribute to your little friend.
 

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To TonyB,

You do not need a license to help wild birds. If you do they will have a leash on you by threatening your license. You will not get rich rehabbing birds and the truth is you don't need them.

Parenthetically, there is no way in the world the people you consulted could have known if the bird would fly again, and if it was able to fly to you their excuse is pure BS.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Thanks Nona, I know you had no idea I didn't either I'm sure the little guy is in a better place now flying free.

I did research on what is needed to become a rehabber. I am going to start on getting my permits ASAP. Brooklyn needs more, the only one here that I called did not even want to look at her, makes me sick.

I myself do not think any bird should be kept in a cage. Birds were made to be free and fly in the air, not sit on a stick in a cage for people to look at. That goes for all birds. People that have house birds should let them fly around their house not sit in the cage all day. We used to have pigeons when my great grand mother was alive, she would let them free fly all day and they would always come home before dusk. More people should train their birds to fly around and come home. I have a lot of work to catch up with and that's why I didn't respond sooner but I will keep you posted. I am really worried about the other doves I hope they all don't get the pox

Tony
 

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Tony, I agree with you about birds not being kept in cages all the time and my one of my little parrots is sitting on my shoulder as I type this post. The other is in his cage because the one on my shoulder attacks him and so I must rotate their time out.
Many of us are unable to let our pigeon fly free either because of neighbors or Birds of Prey.
I think you will make a terrific rehabber and you know we will keep you busy.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
The girls at WBF are totally dedicated to saving as many of their patients as possible. The bird may have been able to fly across the room but that does not mean it could manage in the wild. NY State rehabbers are bound by law to PTS any native species that cannot be returned to the wild with reasonable expectations of survival. Their actions were neither an excuse nor was it BS.
I won't hold a grudge against WBF they were very nice and the little guy had Pox and was very sick. They had to do what was best, thinking about it today made me realize my little friend could have made a lot of other birds there sick and I think that and the fact his wing was bruised was to much. If I had another bird that was not as sick and no broken wing I would bring it to them I know they do the right thing.
Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Tony, I agree with you about birds not being kept in cages all the time and my one of my little parrots is sitting on my shoulder as I type this post. The other is in his cage because the one on my shoulder attacks him and so I must rotate their time out.
Many of us are unable to let our pigeon fly free either because of neighbors or Birds of Prey.
I think you will make a terrific rehabber and you know we will keep you busy.
Thanks Charis, I'm trying to figure out what room I'm going to use :) I'm sure it will take a few months to get the permits, hopefully by next year. Only because I do get so many little doves. It's hard to climb up a 20 foot tree to stick them back in and I'm good for 2 or 3 doves a season. Last year 2 fell out and I was able to get them safely back in. This year I was not lucky at all :(
 

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You do not need a license to help wild birds. If you do they will have a leash on you by threatening your license. You will not get rich rehabbing birds and the truth is you don't need them.
I have to disagree with you, Grimaldy. In most states no permits are required to rehab English Sparrows, European Starlings, or feral pigeons as they are considered non-native species. All other wild birds are protected under federal and state law, and permits are required to rehab them .. both state and federal permits. It is true that non-permitted individuals can legally rescue sick, injured, or orphaned protected species of birds, but by law, any such birds have to be taken to a permitted facility or individual within 48-72 hours. I am well aware that the laws are not always followed and for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately a mean spirited person can cause a great deal of hardship for someone "possessing" a protected species of bird without the permits.

Terry
 

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Tony, you will need more than a room. NY requires you have an outside aviary to acclimate the rehabs to be released
This isn't true to my knowledge, unless there's some specialized NYS rule for migratory birds I'm not aware of. I'm NYS licensed and in no way do I have an outside aviary. The same holds true for other NYS licensed rehabbers I know.

Jennifer
 

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I'm fairly certain I'm right. You certain are not required to have outdoor space for nonmigratory species. And other licensed rehabbers I know who release migratory birds don't have aviaries, either.

Jennifer
 

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Discussion Starter #60 (Edited)
Tony, you will need more than a room. NY requires you have an outside aviary to acclimate the rehabs to be released......thankfully you have the backyard, I hope you have legal access to use it. One of our best NYC rehabbers was forced out of her home of many years, & forced out of ''business'' by a new building owner because she had her aviary in the building's back courtyard.
Thanks Nona, we have a nice size backyard with a porch. Under it was our Pigeon coop. We own the house so I don't think I would have any problems with that. To bad we don't have the coop anymore, Guess I'll have to build a new one:)
 
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