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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
ok so here's the situation...

Oct 20: noticed limping in one of my flock and brought him home to monitor. (thinking a sprain or break ut found nothing) ... after about 7-10 days, swelling started; Right hock, left foot. I tried penicillin/streptomycin for 7 days.... nothing.. infact worse.
Brought to vet... she agreed with my thought of paratyphoid, and started on Baytril and metacam (for pain).

He has been on baytril for over 21 days and there is no change really.... less fluid around the hock now, but still big looking... the inside toe of right foot had started to swell 12 days ago (now it's pretty big and has a flat yellow scab-like spot) in the last 7 days, the middle toe, right foot, has lost control to the mid joint.

Not a biggy... one bird... we can fix it!.. NO! now another that I had here, before Mr. Swelling.... has started to get swollen feet!!!

I have kept them apart...but they did come from the same loft. Mr. Swollen Feet, I believe had cocci as he was super skinny, his poop was horrible and even after a few days with care ... always seemed seconds from death. he was very slow to recover but was getting so much better 2 weeks ago ....

I gave him a new feed pellet, high protien, grower pellet... recommened by many racers here... he ate it like crazy (Great because hand feeding was getting hard with a new job)....then a few days ago his feet started swelling too! I started him on baytril right away.. hoping jumping on it would help... NO! it has only gotten worse.. slowly... but worse.

I'm about to start Cipro on Mr. Swelling... keeping Mr. Swollen Feet on baytril.... I hope it will work, but has anyone else had unexplained/uncontrollable swelling??

I use natural methods as much as possible, so many of my birds have never had antibiotics, these ones included... baytril should have worked according to all I have read here....

I HATE antibiotics.. But I know when I'm licked... HELP!!!!!
 

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Did your vet not get the droppings tested to confirm the paratyphoid? I really recommend getting them tested so you'll know what to use.

But, strepococcus can act very much like paratyphoid and is often mistaken as it. They treat for paratyphoid and it fails because they treat for the wrong thing. Amoxicillin is the drug of choice for streptococcus. Sounds like that could be it.
 

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I agree with Becky. It would probably be best to change to another family of antibiotics, as Cipro is pretty much the same thing as Baytril . I would try either Sulfa antibiotics (eg triple sulfa/bactrim/ Sulfa -trimethoprim etc) or Amoxicillin. Both will treat strep and staph infections, which Baytril/Cipro won't.

The Vet probably should have done tests for the illness, I wonder why she didn't do that? Vets cost enough, you expect them to do tests. If you want a wild guess, you go to an internet forums ,lol.
 

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I agree with Becky. It would probably be best to change to another family of antibiotics, as Cipro is pretty much the same thing as Baytril . I would try either Sulfa antibiotics (eg triple sulfa/bactrim/ Sulfa -trimethoprim etc) or Amoxicillin. Both will treat strep and staph infections, which Baytril/Cipro won't.

The Vet probably should have done tests for the illness, I wonder why she didn't do that? Vets cost enough, you expect them to do tests. If you want a wild guess, you go to an internet forums ,lol.
I agree, although I'm not that surprised. My doctor prescribed my mom antibiotics not long ago without even taking her temperature or taking a white blood count :eek: Just like, oh, here's some meds to spend money on and let me know if it works :p LOL. I think it's gotten to where you won't get much out of doctors unless you ask about/for it
 

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I would take a fresh poop sample to the vet and have them send it out for a 'culture & sensitivity'. You shouldn't have to take the bird back in to him. But in the meantime, I would do as suggested and switch to triple sulfa.
It takes about 5 days to get results from a C&S.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
tests were done..... it all came back negative. But she said to stay on the baytril anyway.

Gout has been brought up, but with 2 with swelling... I can't believe that is it.

I have spent too much... I told her I can't bring him in a 3rd time.
I'll try the bactrim, I have some.

I tried pennicillin... and it did nothing,so I assume Amoxicillin would be of no use either.


Thanks for the input.. I'll keep you all posted, these guys are so uncomfortable! I feel so sad for them!!
 

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If the tests were done while the bird is on antibiotics, the vet wouldn't be able to tell a thing. The bird will need to be off antibiotics for at least a week to be able to culture bacteria.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
If the tests were done while the bird is on antibiotics, the vet wouldn't be able to tell a thing. The bird will need to be off antibiotics for at least a week to be able to culture bacteria.
the test were done before the vet's antibiotics were given... I took him off what I was giving him for almost a week before going to the vet ....as to not cause interactions, or taint the test...
 

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Have you treated them for mites? Many folks don't think their birds have mites, when in fact they do. Mites are so small that they are difficult to see, even after they have fed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
yup... they had feather louse so to keep my "at home" pigies from getting them... they were treated upon arrival.
 

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Mites hide in the loft and come out at night. They are very different form feather lice.
Just because you've treated once, doesn't mean you do not meed to treat on a regular basis. The mites are so tiny that it's almost impossible to see them with the naked eye.
 

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That's a really good point about mites -- scaly leg mites can cause all kinds of swelling and inflammation. They're skin burrowers, and apparently fairly difficult to get rid of. They get under the scales of the legs, and can get into the unfeathered portions of the face as well (eyes, cere, etc.)

Other possibilities include a localized fungal infection, or something viral. With more than one showing symptoms, it does appear to be contagious/communicable.

Can you post a picture of the leg swelling?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Mites hide in the loft and come out at night. They are very different form feather lice.
Just because you've treated once, doesn't mean you do not meed to treat on a regular basis. The mites are so tiny that it's almost impossible to see them with the naked eye.

I removed these two from the loft, treated them for bugs and brought them inside the house. I change the beding daily and they are not scratching at all.

I know mites can be an issue causing this... but the 2nd sweller had been here for over 3 weeks before he started to swell.

it seems the 2nd started swelling after about 2-3 days of eating the pellet feed I brought from the loft... it was from a different manufacturer then I normally use...
The 2nd one was very underweight, so once I saw he was finally intersted in eating something other than peas and corn on his own (he was trying to eat the rabbit's hay pellets) then I brought home some of the pigey pellets, in the hopes if putting the weight back on him

I wondered if it's an infection from bad feed? food poisoning?
it's really the only commonality I can find.
As soon as I had these issues I stopped the pellet feed but by then they had already eaten 70 lbs of it (I have 150 birds so they do eat alot)


UPDATE: bactrim seems to have helped some on the 1st bird (the worst one)..... the swelling is still there and is still hot.... but his toes don't curl under his foot anymore...
I noticed by morning the weak toe had changed from the centre to the outside toe... this morning neither toe curles! YAY!!

it funny... the worst one has the most energy and is very happy to fly around the living room then head back into his "medical tent" when I let him out for excercise.

the other (only has swollen feet) is so sad.... he's been through so much! he just sits in the corner of his own medical tent and gets up when I feed then goes back to bed.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
the heat! I just can't get over how HOT the swelling is... they are so sad... not puffing up tho! just sore and miserable :(

My 2 house pigies (Squeeber and Alfalfa) have been kept seperate, and show no signs of issue... they did eat the pellets at one meal only, but they show no signs of swelling thank god.

Squeebs is my fav.. if anything happend to her... wow I'd lose it! (shes a splayed bluebar with a few white flight feathers that was born to 2 all white parents... She LOVES me like CRAZY!! LOL! As soon as I wake up she grunts little grunts sometimes for hours, when I pick her up she grunts louder, if I rub her ears she closes her eyes and leans in and garbles harder.

She nuzzles my toes and sleeps on my feet, and if my BF sits in my chair she attacks his feet until he moves and lets me sit there!!!
Nice to have my 'peeps' lookn' out for me. :D
 

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Yeah, keep those precious ones safe! I have a little splay hen who is much like that -- total love muffin who sings and love-grunts to me all day long.

That fevered swelling doesn't sound good at all -- I'm doubting it was the feed, since only two showed symptoms.

Do you have any metacam?
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
the problem is I also have 4 others that can't fly, this showed up at about the same time... no swelling, but you can see how sore the wings are as they flap funny when they do it at all. (they are the only ones in the 'big' hospital loft, I was able to only get Cipro as it did not come from a vet... so far they are on it for 5 days... today I will test their wings again.... if after the 12 days (as was recommended) that I don't see anything getting better, I will trade up for triple sulfa or something I can get through the farm supply

when I first noticed the issue, I let everyone out for a flight... these guys didn't go out!
when I pick them up, they nose dive to the ground sometimes not opening wings!.. othertimes just falling with weak flaps, unable to hold up their weight in flight... very weak flapping... with one wing not really opening fully in most cases.

BUt again.. no swelling or heat that I can find!
I had such a great summer! it took a year to get these birds in perfect shape as the last loft manager had no clue about birds and didn't care to know.
They have been happy healthy and free of issues.. then as of Oct... pox, swelling, weakness, generally sad looking birds!

I have isolated all the sick ones, (15 in total with most getting better once the pox was gone) boosted the immune systems of the rest and they are all alot better.. but these last 6 have me stumped!! They never even had visible pox!

The 4 are all adults who are 2-3 years old, the swellers are this years babies
 
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