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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up this baby with severe canker. I cannot say where is located the canker but the mouth was horribly smelling and was pus, partly bloody, inside mouth and on the beak.

When I inserted the tube in her crop to feed him and gave medicines, the tube came out with something reddish at the tip, from what collected on the bottom of the crop.

I gave her metronidazole, injectable and oral before feeding and then, after feeding, Nystatin. I cannot say if the oral medicines were absorbed into body. The injectable metro was around 7 mg. Unfortunately, the food may not let the nystatin reach the bottom of the crop, though I made a solution of water and tablet powder.

I feeded him defrosted peas made a paste. If is candida or canker blocking the crop, itmay simply be the fact even such soft food is too hard for her condition.

She passes some small, mostly (yellow) urates droppings with a smaller feces of brown color, maybe because of blood.

 

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Hey Andreas,

The blood in the crop sounds like some kind of impaction...maybe caused by the canker do you think?. Crops heal up fast luckily, but whether it can still pass food is a problem. I have used warmed applesauce to feed very sick pigeons with crop problems, it sometimes helped, other times the crop wouldn't move again. I think the nystatin and metro were the right drugs to start her on.

Do you have anything like amoxicillin to give with the nystatin and canker med?
I only mention it because I had a pigeon with a torn crop from a hawk attack, with canker. She made it, and amoxicillin was the antibiotic I used. I used it because it is good for soft tissue infection.

Hugs to you, sour crop is very hard to deal with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for idea of using antibiotic. I gave right now Lincospectin, as an oral antibiotic I don't think can reach the proventriculus.

Is possible for apple sauce to favorize candida? What other kind of food I can use?
 

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Baby applesauce would be better without all the sugar and all. Mix with a bit of warm water and feed that. Looks like canker. I would do Metro and Baytril. And of course Nystatin because of the Baytril.
If you don't want to use applesauce, add a few drops of ACV to whatever you do feed. Applesauce usually helps the crop to move.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is no doubt is canker, the smell, the feathers missing under beak, the pus. For moment, it seems the canker stepped back but it can attack back anytime, stronger.

She also seemed comforted after injection with Lincospectin which makes me think she has some associated bacterial problems, maybe an infection following internal canker-caused lesions.

The problem is she doesn't pass droppings, though I feeded her. Do you think is smart to fill her crop with some food to have it over night?
 

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For me, I would feel more comfortable focusing on re-hydration with water and the applesauce (if you have any), and see how her droppings are in the morning. Feeding more when the crop isn't moving is usually not good.

When the canker/yeast and bacteria has eased up over night from the medicine you gave, the crop will have better chance at working.
 

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I agree with Bella. Would go with the applesauce for now, and wait till the crop starts moving. Adding new food to old food will only cause problems, and it will just ferment in the crop.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There are some non-stop shops around but I doubt they have apple sauce, even less baby apple sauce. I think I have to wait up to 8 AM (now is 2 AM) for some supermarket to open.

Thankfully, she passed a real dropping few minutes back. I think she needs hydration (she is scary dehydrated) but she doesn't drink on her own (water has a hard time reaching the crop) and is reluctant for me using a tube and the tuibe doesn't slip inside because the mucosa of throat is dried.
 

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You oil the tube or wet it with water. I use olive oil.
And applesauce is easy to make. Just peel the apples and core them. Cut them up and cook with just a dash of water in the bottom of the pan. Cook till soft and let it cool. Doesn't take long.

Yea, I keep formula in the freezer with peas, and jars of baby applesauce in the bird cupboard, along with baby food peas, corn, and carrots. LOL.
 

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You're very well prepared Jay, that's a great collection of food.

Andreas, Often dipping the sick pigeon's beak into a cup of water will make them drink. The first time might scare them, but usually on the second or third try they will realize that its water and they will drink. Keep trying, she will be thirsty and want a drink badly.
 

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AndreiS be very careful with the crop needle, friend had a pigeon to the vet, with canker and when they did a crop wash and the bird bled to death because they ripped a canker nodule. I instructed her a second time to NOT go and they vet did the same thing to another bird. Brought the bird back to her bleeding out the mouth in time to die in her hands. She has never gone back since. Maybe better with just peas for feed after she is hydrated, medicated and kept warm, she looks miserable, is there an updated better pic?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You oil the tube or wet it with water. I use olive oil.
I use my own saliva. Oil I noticed it accumulates in crop during multiple uses and if crop has problem, the oil gets rancid, with a very bad taste and smell. Saliva is like K-Jelly, is water soluble and very slippery.


And applesauce is easy to make. Just peel the apples and core them. Cut them up and cook with just a dash of water in the bottom of the pan. Cook till soft and let it cool. Doesn't take long.
I think I will refrain from using anything sweet, in the end. I will stick with the peas past.

Andreas, Often dipping the sick pigeon's beak into a cup of water will make them drink. The first time might scare them, but usually on the second or third try they will realize that its water and they will drink. Keep trying, she will be thirsty and want a drink badly.
Yesterday she drank a little by her own, from cup and apparently water doesn't travel well her throat, it came back up in the mouth and distressed her. This is why she don't want to drink, I have to give water by tube.

AndreiS be very careful with the crop needle, friend had a pigeon to the vet, with canker and when they did a crop wash and the bird bled to death because they ripped a canker nodule. I instructed her a second time to NOT go and they vet did the same thing to another bird. Brought the bird back to her bleeding out the mouth in time to die in her hands. She has never gone back since. Maybe better with just peas for feed after she is hydrated, medicated and kept warm, she looks miserable, is there an updated better pic?
I know, I never forcee, rather let the tube slip inside and if is not sliping, I renounce temporary.

This morning, as I supposed, canker was back, pus in mouth and the cracking noise that other pigeons hosted in the warmed place has manifested. Is some germ in environment or maybe a condition that makes canker proliferate in the sinus. I gave her water with metro, I will give ronidazole and perhaps some more metro in the afternoon / night. She also got some peas past, juste a little, and will get more later (several meals of small amount of food).

This morning, apparently a little more relaxed:

 

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I use my own saliva. Oil I noticed it accumulates in crop during multiple uses and if crop has problem, the oil gets rancid, with a very bad taste and smell. Saliva is like K-Jelly, is water soluble and very slippery.

By doing that, you are introducing many germs and bacteria to the bird that are harmful. Do you not understand about the amount of bacteria in the human mouth? Don't use old rancid olive oil. Use fresh and keep it in the refrigerator. That's a lot safer than human saliva.




I think I will refrain from using anything sweet, in the end. I will stick with the peas past.

Applesauce isn't sweet if you use baby applesauce or make it without adding sugar. It does help the ph of the crop and does help to move things through the crop. Peas do neither.

Yesterday she drank a little by her own, from cup and apparently water doesn't travel well her throat, it came back up in the mouth and distressed her. This is why she don't want to drink, I have to give water by tube.


I know, I never forcee, rather let the tube slip inside and if is not sliping, I renounce temporary.

This morning, as I supposed, canker was back, pus in mouth and the cracking noise that other pigeons hosted in the warmed place has manifested. Is some germ in environment or maybe a condition that makes canker proliferate in the sinus. I gave her water with metro, I will give ronidazole and perhaps some more metro in the afternoon / night. She also got some peas past, juste a little, and will get more later (several meals of small amount of food).

The canker comes back because it never left. You don't give enough or for long enough. That helps to build resistance and it will come back.


This morning, apparently a little more relaxed:

......................................
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok, I will buy some baby applesauce and use olive oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I tried to gave him applesauce, but there seem to be a blockage at the entrance of the crop, I mean, between esophagusd and crop. I can't pass with the tube beyond this blockage (as I don't want to force at all) and liquid food also seems to not pass, or pass just little and it remain there and perhaps go up into trachea.

Now it breaths open mouthed and bobs the tail but I don't know if is because aspirated water or because of sinus problems, because also makes sinus gurgling sounds like the previous pigeon.
 

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If it doesn't go in easily, then you take out the tube and gently try again. If it still doesn't go all the way in, then you don't release any food or liquids, as they won't be going in far enough, and can too easily aspirate. Sounds like that is what you did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Now the sinus sound (temporary) stopped and so did the open-mouth, so hopefully (because is less serious than aspiration) it was the sinus problem.


She had periods during day when the crop was blocked, probably by candida, and after much water with vinegar and Nystatin she started to pass some droppings with feces, then again blocked crop and so. She has some energy, she even flyes few meters.
 

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I'm sorry to hear about all the problems with the blockage.

I noticed that you gave 7mg in jection of metro the first day, was that all it recieved in total, or did you continue that? 7mg seems very low dose for severe canker, but maybe it is different concentration. And did it receive antibiotics just once also?

If there is an impacted canker nodule there blocking entrance to the crop, I think very thin liquids for food/rehydration via syringe and medicines are the only chance. It can live without food much longer than it can live without liquids. Most importantly, it needs water .
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
As I stated, I also gave oral metronidazol, plus roonidazol. Overall, he received the amount of a medium size pigeon - 50 mg, but he is around 150 gr.


I noticed that if I put the food in the esophagus, is absorbed into crop. He made over night some small dried droppings and now in the morning a bigger and wetter one, from the applesauce. It seems the applesauce works fine.
 
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