[Henk69]

Hi,

Saw these two breeds next to each other on a dutch exhibition (the Gelderlandshow) and wondered how the silvery pattern on the body of these pigeons inherits.
I have a modena at home that looks like the svaber but with the entire body silvery. Only the face is dark.
Also, is this bodypattern always linked to toy stencil?

Have you ever seen any other areas that can be silvery like this?
Is there any relation to the pied genes or maybe grizzle?

Thanks in advance.

Spreeuwduif (dutch)

Svaber

 

[rudolph.est]

Svaben (Suabiens / Pheasant pigeons as they are called in the US) are definitely T-pattern toy stencil and extreme dirty. It also takes a lot of selection to keep the head crescent clear and the breast, wings and tail dark.

Grizzle and pied are not at all involved in making this phenotype, and indeed wold probably be detrimental to a project to breed these colors.

I think the toy stencil complex has been introduced into Modenas. I think they are called argent, but I may be mistaken.

Toy stencil is a complex of 3 genes that need to be expressed to have white markings where black markings are expected. At least two of these genes are dominant alleles (one of them is Modena bronze) and the third is recessive.

 

[Henk69]

Is there a bronzing factor that colors that breast crescent specifically?
I know there is a pied factor doing just that...

 

[rudolph.est]

There is a 'bronze' that causes a silver / gold neck as is seen in many of the Egyptian swift varieties, and it looks a lot like the 'blaauw silvergeschubd' in the pictures you posted. Dina Mergeani names it Egyptian swift bronze on his website and lists is as an allele of archangel bronze. Archangel bronze without modifiers will also only bronze up the breast and lower neck. This effect can be seen in the Lucerne gold collar, as well as many of the dark lark breeds. No one knows for sure what effect the toy-stencil complex has on these bronze areas, but it is assumed that the bronze parts are lightened as well.

On the other hand I know that starlings have the white crescent gene (the pied one you were referring to).

 

[Henk69]

I got myself some archangels.
One couple is toy stencil (gold body blue wing white bar) created with pheasant pigeon/spreeuwduif.
No silver on the neck.

Just thinking out loud.
Not true because I think in dutch

 

[rudolph.est]

I got myself some archangels.
One couple is toy stencil (gold body blue wing white bar) created with pheasant pigeon/spreeuwduif.
No silver on the neck.

Just thinking out loud.
Not true because I think in dutch

I know that white bar archangels are possible, but I have never seen a picture of a T-pattern toy stencil archangel, nor a Check toy stencil archangel. I assume these genotypes cause what are called pheasant pigeons and suabiens, because that is what I have been told.

The only way to know for sure is to breed one and find out. I'll have to get myself a toy-stencilled breed and try it!