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Hello Ippychick,

You did receive the meds I sent, right, from what I understand?

The cipro is the human-designated version of Batril. Cipro was originally Ciprobay from Bayer, and Baytril from Bayer (Leverkusen) also. Remember the Bayer aspirin bottles. Actually, Aspirin was originally a Bayer trademark also (unless I'm getting senile).

Reti on PT once said that (at their clinic) you treat for the disease, os cipro should work in the place of Baytril.

I was also told you can give both cipro and cotrim simultaneously.

I'm not going to go against a vet, obviously, but you do have the other meds.

My docs have had me stop an antibiotic after a day or so, instead of holding to the full course of treatment, and switch to another antibiotic. See what the others on the forum think about switching.

It's possible your vet knows something we don't, since he handled the pigeon.

About him advising to put the bird down, it may be his experience that unless someone is aggressively determined to fight for an animal's life, and put in a lot of continuous effort, that any attempts to save the animal merely prolongs the torture of the animal before it dies because the human rescuer has gotten tired of the project. Anyone who is uncertain or easily persuaded may not have the necessary stick-to-it-tiveness. So, his advice may be good for the animal in that case. Would you like to be in intensive care where the nurses are negligent?

i once had to check into a hospital overnight before a more or less routine bronchoscopy. Nurses stood in the doorway all night long, smoking cigarettes in spite of my lung diseases, and kept me awake by taking my temp and blood pressure every two hours. This was during the days of promoting racial equality by giving jobs to persons even if they weren't qualified. I never got upset about it or complained; it was part of the culture back then and more or less accepted behavior.

Larry



Larry
 

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Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
Hello Ippychick,

You did receive the meds I sent, right, from what I understand?

The cipro is the human-designated version of Batril. Cipro was originally Ciprobay from Bayer, and Baytril from Bayer (Leverkusen) also........
Larry,

Yes, you understood right~ I DID receive the meds you sent! THANK YOU! They came only some hours after I had got the meds from the vet.

The vet who saw the bird~ I wouldn't trust my life (or any animal's) in her hands. The first time I saw her, she looked at the bird and then said nothing could be done. She said the bird should also be put down, because it can't walk properly. She didn't have that "let's see what we can do to save this animal" kind of attitude.

I, instead, am a person who'll do everything until the very end. I also know many vets want to put animals down easily ~ even if they suffered from something treatable, like diabetes ~ so I was prepared for that (even with human doctors I have the same attitude; they're just people and don't know it all, even if they thought so in many cases).

When I talked to her on the phone, she was reluctant to give me the medication ~ I thought to myself (without saying out loud to her) "What is your problem, you wanted to kill this bird anyway, so why are you so worried of giving her some medication".

I mean, I just didn't see what the problem was, because this woman was not after saving this bird's life in the first place, but ending it ~ so even if a wrong medication would kill/hurt the bird, atleast it would've happened by trying something. And she didn't even know about the "pigeon Salmonellosis", that it's not contagious.

So, you're right, Larry. I wouldn't & didn't trust the vet, and that's why I asked for the Baytril straight way, with no success though.

So you think I should change the medication now?

The one I have is liquid, and only lasts for the 10 days I need to give it to her. So I can't have a break in between, unless if I do swap the meds for sure. I'm sure it's no prob to change it, if that's what we decide to do.

The Cipro sounds good...

Let's see if anyone else has something to say about this ~ if not, then maybe we should just make a decision?

Jo
 

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Well, if you suspect Salmonella in the bird, Cipro should work well for that.

Reti
 

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Discussion Starter #65
::update::

Just to give an update;

The same day I started the medication the vet gave Vivi started to feel much better! I mean I could see some improvement in her already on the same day, and it only got better day by day! This is also why I decided not to swap the medication, because it really seemed to be working!!

Vivi has been doing so good for many days now; she is flying around and following a lot, really active and awake.

I don't know what happened the other day when she got so strange and so suddenly, and I guess there will never be a certain answer to it.

She still has some problems with the other leg, and she's been wearing a 'support' in it, like some of you suggested. It has made her walk really good, and she's been walking like a 'real pigeon' for a longer time already.

When the 'support' has been taken off though, she still crumbles the toes, which of course is not good... She's getting some physical therapy in the bad foot, so hopefully that'll help...

Thanks again for the help & support ~ to everybody!

Vivi says hello!! :p
 

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Discussion Starter #66 (Edited)
An Update on Vivi

Hi everyone!

It's been a while, hey? I've come to the forum every now and then to see what you guys are on to, but haven't posted in ages.

Here's an update on Vivi, the little pigeon from the railway station;

She's been doing really good and healthy. Her other leg never healed, because it had been broken; she's learned to use it though, and can even run really fast when she wants to!

I went on a holiday for a month, during which she was alone with my partner; when I got back she had got an idea they're a 'couple', so she's been quite angry when I've tried to touch her! She's after my partner all the time (ALL THE TIME), and has done a lot of cooing when he's around! Luckily she's very quiet though when she's alone with me! ;)

Vivi is not housebroken, BUT she's learned not to poop on certain areas!! She even sleeps in the bed with us (she has her own sleeping box there), and when she needs to take a poop she nicely walks to where it's ok to do! She's really come a long way, and especially with this pooping thing ~ been quite surprised about it, and it's great as we never wanted to keep her in a cage! So, I guess it's ok to say she's semi-housebroken? :p

ALSO, she made an EGG this morning! There's no doubt about her sex anymore, hey? I always thought she was a girl, but after she started to be so 'dominating' with me I thought maybe it could be a boy.

But yeah, the egg is in her sleeping box now, and I guess it's ok to leave there for a while? She seems to be doing fine; gets out of the box every now and then to collect leaves (etc) to build a nest with! She's a little quiet, but I guess it's just some post-first-egg-shock? She's eating and drinking, and seems fine overall.

Well, there was an update on Vivi for you! She & her egg send you many hellos!

I hope you all are doing fine!!

Ippychick

(Here's a little video of Vivi)
 

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Thank you for providing such a welcome and positive update.

Vivi should lay a second egg and then she will start incubating them. As the eggs will both be infertile you can leave them under her until she decides they are not viable. Removing the eggs without replacing them with a boiled or plastic eggs could lead her to lay another clutch prematutrely and could deplete her calcium reserves.

If she doesn't take breaks from her nest one of you will have to slide a hand under her and cover the eggs so that she believes that she has been relieved by her mate.

Thanks to you Vivi has grown up to be an exceptional pigeon.

Cynthia
 

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What GREAT news and update about Vivi!!

LOL...I am NOT surprised that your partner has been chosen as "mate!" ;)

Squeaks thinks I am his and while I don't do nest duty, I still "supply" nesting materials in the form of thin shredded paper strips. By the time I'm finished, he has built quite a nest (with added feathers from him) under him!

If you ever consider diapers for Vivi, our very own Boni Birds supplies "custom" made ones that have been the hit of the site! In fact, Bill's (nbdyuknow) Sophie, even laid an egg in hers!

Welcome back and please keep us posted!!

Hugs and Scritches

Shi & Squeaks
 

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Ippychick, Vivi looks wonderful. What a great job you have done saving this precious little pigeon. I loved the picture and video. I can tell she is spoiled rotten. :) Nice to see someone else kissing their pigeon's head.
 

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LOL...I loved the video and your update. That's one lucky bird.:)
Now that she has started laying, do make sure she has calcium.
Please, keep the updates coming.

I kiss my pigeons too.:D For a long time Sammy slept on a towel on my bed at night...that was until the dog arrived. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Ah, thanks for your all nice comments! :)

Yes, indeed, Miss Vivi is spoiled rotten.....but it's good to know also other people kiss their pigeons and let them sleep on the bed!! :D

We've given her some extra calcium now, so that's under control.

Will there be a 2nd egg for sure, or maybe?

I read somewhere it might be a good idea to give some olive oil for the bird, as that helps the egg come out easier?

Shi - this whole 'mate' thing is so funny! :p And is Squeaks' nest really nicely done? Vivi's nest making skills seem to be extremely poor so far, though she is carrying all that stuff into her box... The diapers; yeah, they might be worth trying! Just need to get used to the idea of them first! ;)
 

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Ah, thanks for your all nice comments! :)

Yes, indeed, Miss Vivi is spoiled rotten.....but it's good to know also other people kiss their pigeons and let them sleep on the bed!! :D

We've given her some extra calcium now, so that's under control.

Will there be a 2nd egg for sure, or maybe?

I read somewhere it might be a good idea to give some olive oil for the bird, as that helps the egg come out easier?

Shi - this whole 'mate' thing is so funny! :p And is Squeaks' nest really nicely done? Vivi's nest making skills seem to be extremely poor so far, though she is carrying all that stuff into her box... The diapers; yeah, they might be worth trying! Just need to get used to the idea of them first! ;)
LOL...neat? no, 'fraid not...his basket is just his size and all the paper and feathers are "jumbled" together under him. SOMEWHERE in there, is his egg! Oh yes, and because, sometimes, his feeding dish is next to his basket, there will be seeds on the bottom too!

When he goes to mate mode, I pick up the whole "bundle," toss is out, wash the towel and start all over again...next time!

Actually, the diapers are a godsend for those who have mostly "cage" free birds. Boni's are much less "intrusive" than the Flight Suits. Her diapers are made for each bird individually, you can choose a cute design and the material is cotton; half of a panty liner or "light day" pad is used as a "liner." Squeaks has no problem flapping his wings and running around.

Hugs and Scritches TO ALL

Shi & Squeaks
 

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What a wonderful update. The pic on the laptop is just great.
You did a wonderful job with this baby.

Reti
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Hi again!

Vivi the pigeon did make two eggs, and after two weeks with nothing happening she gave up sitting on them!

Weirdly enough, she went back to the mating mode immediately ~ is this normal?

This whole egg-business is so new to me; how does it really work? I mean, Vivi doesn't have a pigeon boyfriend, so the eggs will never become more than eggs.

How fast is her 'egg cycle'; she'll be sitting on the eggs for about two weeks, so how quickly after that is she going to make the next eggs? Is there any breaks in between?

Must take a lot of calcium from her little body... :(

Is it not good to have a single pigeon? I feel a little sorry for her now, because I fear she's gonna make some more eggs soon?! Hope not, for her own sake. :(

Other than that; I hope you all are enjoying the sunny days! I went out with my bird yesterday, and it was just wonderful to enjoy the sun after all these dark months! Loved it. :)

Ippychick & Vivi the pigeon
 

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Yes, that is quite normal.

It is okay to have a single pigeon if you keep her company, you can always get another hen for company or a male pigeon.

As long as she is in love she will continue the cycle's. Normally they lay 5 to 10 days after mating.

It is good you are allowing her to sit the eggs as long as possible, this helps get her calcium reserves up. Make sure to always give her grit or other calcium source.

If you are petting her on the back, that will also stimulate egg production. A high protein diet will increase the sex drive, increase of barley in the seed will diminish it.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Yes, that is quite normal.

It is okay to have a single pigeon if you keep her company, you can always get another hen for company or a male pigeon....
Thank you, Trees Gray!

YES, indeed, she's in love ~ with a human! So I guess that's why she's going to make more eggs soon! :p

It's good to know about the barley and high-protein diet! She'll be getting plenty of barley from now on. ;)

She's been petted on the back a lot, so that's gonna stop from now on! Thanks for telling about that!

Yes, she gets extra calcium daily, and we let her sit on the eggs as long as she wants to ~ she's more calm that way, too.

What comes to getting a friend for her ~ as soon as the situation allows another pigeon, it's definitely going to happen! :)

Thanks for all the info, Trees Gray! Big, big help!

Ippychick & Vivi
 
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