Sounds a lot like canker, not cancer? I've never heard of pigeons getting cancer, but I'm no vet. Canker can spread like a wildfire if not treated. Spreading through the crop into other organs is likely. Most of the time you'll see it in the mouth and throat first but it can pop up just about anywhere. Eating and drinking after infected birds spreads it through the flock pretty quickly.
Cancer in local pigeon population- anyone heard of this?
Last week I posted about a pigeon with a huge, fast growing growth on its head that was looking like it was extremely sick. The pigeon disappeared and I presume it died, poor little girl.
So I've been keeping an eye on our local flock, and another pigeon has been getting very ill. It developed a huge, noticeable internal `bulge' in its crop region and was having a terrible struggle with swallowing food. This one knew me, it looks like one of the handsome males that was spinning circles for all the hens during the summer. He had lost a lot of condition, and this morning he walked right up to my feet while I was cleaning his water and putting out seed. He tried to eat, but couldn't get more than a few small seeds down; he was obviously in pain.
So I picked him up (he just stood still and let me) and called the vet. The nurse told me that both sick pigeons sound like they caught a viral cancer that has been affecting pigeons and other native birds. She said the only thing could do was to bring him in to be euthanased.
So I did it. When I took him to the nurse she told me he was starving and that the tumour seemed to have taken over his crop and spread to his lungs. I left him there to be put to sleep, but I feel so rotten. I have been sobbing and feeling such pain; I wish I could have helped in a better way than taking his life from him, you know?
The nurse is calling it a viral cancer, with no known cure or method for prevention. But one thing I've learned about vets is they tend to be dismissive of feral pigeons, and they also withhold information.
Do you think anything can be done for the flock, or should I just accept that I am helpless in this situation?
So I've been keeping an eye on our local flock, and another pigeon has been getting very ill. It developed a huge, noticeable internal `bulge' in its crop region and was having a terrible struggle with swallowing food. This one knew me, it looks like one of the handsome males that was spinning circles for all the hens during the summer. He had lost a lot of condition, and this morning he walked right up to my feet while I was cleaning his water and putting out seed. He tried to eat, but couldn't get more than a few small seeds down; he was obviously in pain.
So I picked him up (he just stood still and let me) and called the vet. The nurse told me that both sick pigeons sound like they caught a viral cancer that has been affecting pigeons and other native birds. She said the only thing could do was to bring him in to be euthanased.
So I did it. When I took him to the nurse she told me he was starving and that the tumour seemed to have taken over his crop and spread to his lungs. I left him there to be put to sleep, but I feel so rotten. I have been sobbing and feeling such pain; I wish I could have helped in a better way than taking his life from him, you know?
The nurse is calling it a viral cancer, with no known cure or method for prevention. But one thing I've learned about vets is they tend to be dismissive of feral pigeons, and they also withhold information.
Do you think anything can be done for the flock, or should I just accept that I am helpless in this situation?
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I think it sounds like canker too. Very treatable.
Hi Bella,
Whatever you do, do not take your dog or cat to this clinic. While it is true there are viruses that do cause cancer in humans, they are quite well known and in some cases treatable. There is the papilloma virus, for instance, but for anybody to diagnose any condition without even seeing it is really a stretch.
DO not take any more pigeons there to be killed; let them live their lives out.
If you want to get involved in this you are going to need some place to keep the sick birds while you watch them and care for them. Since you really do not know what is causing these problems, you need to observe and keep records of your observations. Several diseases mimic each other, so it is in the differences that you observe that you can determine what, if any, the common denominator might be.
For a start you will need a supply of antibiotic and antifungal. If you can start scouting around for antiviral medication, Tamiflu is cheap right now and easy to get. If you need help, come back to us.
Good Luck to you ..... and your flock.
Whatever you do, do not take your dog or cat to this clinic. While it is true there are viruses that do cause cancer in humans, they are quite well known and in some cases treatable. There is the papilloma virus, for instance, but for anybody to diagnose any condition without even seeing it is really a stretch.
DO not take any more pigeons there to be killed; let them live their lives out.
If you want to get involved in this you are going to need some place to keep the sick birds while you watch them and care for them. Since you really do not know what is causing these problems, you need to observe and keep records of your observations. Several diseases mimic each other, so it is in the differences that you observe that you can determine what, if any, the common denominator might be.
For a start you will need a supply of antibiotic and antifungal. If you can start scouting around for antiviral medication, Tamiflu is cheap right now and easy to get. If you need help, come back to us.
Good Luck to you ..... and your flock.
Thanks heaps Charis and Becky,
When i posted about the other sick pigeon, members here said it looked and sounded like canker.
I did a google search for pigeon cancer, and I can't find any relevant search results at all. Nothing. You'd think if there was such a thing there would be information about it?
I realise that canker is treatable and I quizzed the vet nurse about a treatment for it or at least for the flock, but she outright denied it was canker. But when I was leaving the bird with her, she said something that made me feel a bit suspicious. She said that all pigeons have `a bit of cancer' and that trauma can set it off. That sounds more like canker to me, not cancer.
I'm starting to get pretty disillusioned with vet nurses. The last vet nurse I spoke to worked for our local Avian specialist. She told me that there was no oral treatment whatsoever for mites or lice in birds, which is a blatant lie, as I later discovered. I rang her back and asked her why she lied to me, and she hung up on me.
I don't understand it; its as if vets have their own agenda when it comes to `pest species' and will say anything to the public to get them to fit in with their agenda. That's how it seems anyway.
I think I'm going to find out what to do to prevent canker, and do it without their help. And next time I find a sick pigeon, I'm not going to have it killed just because the vet tells me to do it. Not unless I'm certain there's no other way to save it life.
When i posted about the other sick pigeon, members here said it looked and sounded like canker.
I did a google search for pigeon cancer, and I can't find any relevant search results at all. Nothing. You'd think if there was such a thing there would be information about it?
I realise that canker is treatable and I quizzed the vet nurse about a treatment for it or at least for the flock, but she outright denied it was canker. But when I was leaving the bird with her, she said something that made me feel a bit suspicious. She said that all pigeons have `a bit of cancer' and that trauma can set it off. That sounds more like canker to me, not cancer.
I'm starting to get pretty disillusioned with vet nurses. The last vet nurse I spoke to worked for our local Avian specialist. She told me that there was no oral treatment whatsoever for mites or lice in birds, which is a blatant lie, as I later discovered. I rang her back and asked her why she lied to me, and she hung up on me.
I don't understand it; its as if vets have their own agenda when it comes to `pest species' and will say anything to the public to get them to fit in with their agenda. That's how it seems anyway.
I think I'm going to find out what to do to prevent canker, and do it without their help. And next time I find a sick pigeon, I'm not going to have it killed just because the vet tells me to do it. Not unless I'm certain there's no other way to save it life.
Thanks for your advice. Wow I feel so terrible, like I totally did the wrong thing by my little guy.Hi Bella,
Whatever you do, do not take your dog or cat to this clinic. While it is true there are viruses that do cause cancer in humans, they are quite well known and in some cases treatable. There is the papilloma virus, for instance, but for anybody to diagnose any condition without even seeing it is really a stretch.
DO not take any more pigeons there to be killed; let them live their lives out.
If you want to get involved in this you are going to need some place to keep the sick birds while you watch them and care for them. Since you really do not know what is causing these problems, you need to observe and keep records of your observations. Several diseases mimic each other, so it is in the differences that you observe that you can determine what, if any, the common denominator might be.
For a start you will need a supply of antibiotic and antifungal. If you can start scouting around for antiviral medication, Tamiflu is cheap right now and easy to get. If you need help, come back to us.
Good Luck to you ..... and your flock.
I'm going to get the meds you suggested, a bird cage, and see what I can do for my flock. I hate this! I feel like an idiot for trusting that vet nurse.
There is tons of information about it. I'll go find some links.
Do you think the nurse said canker instead of cancer?
Here's a link...
http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/ailments.htm
Here's a link...
http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/ailments.htm
Charis, No, I quizzed her and made sure, because I know about canker and that its treatable. She used the term cancer.Do you think the nurse said canker instead of cancer?
Here's a link...
http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/ailments.htm
Thanks for the link Charis. I wish I'd looked down its throat to see what was there! The symptoms he displayed could have been canker, same with the other bird.
Bella...it isn't always in their throat. Canker can be internal too.There is usually a bad smell to the breath if they have canker.
Thanks Charis. From the links you provided, his symptoms fit with a very advanced case of `sour crop', but of course I don't know for sure. Thanks a lot for helping me, you're a doll as always
Apple cider vinegar helps the imune system. This may not help, but isn't there some thing they can put in the water or on the feed that may help the rest of the birds?
Dave
Dave
Bella,
don't be too hard on the nurse, because we all have our failings. Maybe she wasn't lying to you, she may have been passing on info (correct or otherwise) which has become lodged in her system and takes a lot of effort to alter or remove.
We pick up some idea, and adjust other ideas to fit in. Think of how long the flat earth theory explained our view of the world? Think of the numerous religions there are, with most adherents thinking theirs is the one which truly connects the human to the divine. Usually it is the religion of their parents. One of my aunts approved of a female relative's marriage to someone of a different religion because "if he's a farmer, it will be okay." You couldn't be a "good-for-nothing" in the 1930s and 1940s and maintain a farm.
It is interesting to think sometimes of how those in the future may view our "enlightened" times as extremely primitive and barbaric. Eating a piece of meat or flesh may be something done in a university lab setting or a museum setting, perhaps as a curiosity item on a culinary reenactment of our times. Driving a car with an functional steering wheel (without autopilot), firing a rifle or gun, ditto. Perhaps manmade-looking fences between (widely-spaced) houses will be a rarity. Vehicular noise may be unheard of, other than the occasional swoosh. Nonhuman species will be treated differently.
Maybe things won't get better, but we know they will be different. We will still be making mistakes, because finite beings can never encompass the infinite.
Larry
don't be too hard on the nurse, because we all have our failings. Maybe she wasn't lying to you, she may have been passing on info (correct or otherwise) which has become lodged in her system and takes a lot of effort to alter or remove.
We pick up some idea, and adjust other ideas to fit in. Think of how long the flat earth theory explained our view of the world? Think of the numerous religions there are, with most adherents thinking theirs is the one which truly connects the human to the divine. Usually it is the religion of their parents. One of my aunts approved of a female relative's marriage to someone of a different religion because "if he's a farmer, it will be okay." You couldn't be a "good-for-nothing" in the 1930s and 1940s and maintain a farm.
It is interesting to think sometimes of how those in the future may view our "enlightened" times as extremely primitive and barbaric. Eating a piece of meat or flesh may be something done in a university lab setting or a museum setting, perhaps as a curiosity item on a culinary reenactment of our times. Driving a car with an functional steering wheel (without autopilot), firing a rifle or gun, ditto. Perhaps manmade-looking fences between (widely-spaced) houses will be a rarity. Vehicular noise may be unheard of, other than the occasional swoosh. Nonhuman species will be treated differently.
Maybe things won't get better, but we know they will be different. We will still be making mistakes, because finite beings can never encompass the infinite.
Larry
Well, I did a lightening quick google for "viral cancer" and birds, and there is such a thing. I need to do a lot more reading about this, I have never heard of it before and I can find no reference to it in the book "Infectious diseases of wild birds". I doubt that the correct diagnosis could be made on the basis of a quick examination, but she might have seen other cases to base her diagnosis on.
The veterinary nurses at the surgery that I go to are incredibly compassionate, but probably know very little about birds. One telephoned me about a wood pigeon that had lost his tail and wanted to know "the prognosis" before she decided whether to pass it on for rehabilitation.
Cynthia
I need to do a lot more reading about this, I have never heard of it before and I can find no reference to it in the book "Infectious diseases of wild birds". I doubt that the correct diagnosis could be made on the basis of a quick examination, but she might have seen other cases to base her diagnosis on.The veterinary nurses at the surgery that I go to are incredibly compassionate, but probably know very little about birds. One telephoned me about a wood pigeon that had lost his tail and wanted to know "the prognosis" before she decided whether to pass it on for rehabilitation.
Cynthia
Hi Cynthia and Larry,
Thanks for offering your thoughts, they are comforting.
Cynthia, yes the nurse did base her decision to euthanase the pigeon on there being a viral cancer going around in our local feral pigeons at the moment, which she said was spreading to Australian native birds like magpies.
She said it was suspected to have been introduced by an exotic bird, and had no known cure nor prevention. She said they'd seen it manifest as wart like tumors, growths that ate away the eyes, and internal tumors.
I got a huge scare when she told me all that, and I immediately felt that it was better to have it removed from the population ASAP for the greater good.
I realise now she was just a nurse, not a vet, and she hadn't even seen the bird. But I guess if there really is a cancer going around that can wipe out natives as well as ferals then she said/did the right thing; there's a bigger picture to think about.
I think I'm going to stop beating myself up now. I'm not a vet and I'm not qualified to diagnose a sick bird. If the professionals I have to rely upon are negligent or wrong, its out of my hands.
Thanks for offering your thoughts, they are comforting.
Cynthia, yes the nurse did base her decision to euthanase the pigeon on there being a viral cancer going around in our local feral pigeons at the moment, which she said was spreading to Australian native birds like magpies.
She said it was suspected to have been introduced by an exotic bird, and had no known cure nor prevention. She said they'd seen it manifest as wart like tumors, growths that ate away the eyes, and internal tumors.
I got a huge scare when she told me all that, and I immediately felt that it was better to have it removed from the population ASAP for the greater good.
I realise now she was just a nurse, not a vet, and she hadn't even seen the bird. But I guess if there really is a cancer going around that can wipe out natives as well as ferals then she said/did the right thing; there's a bigger picture to think about.
I think I'm going to stop beating myself up now. I'm not a vet and I'm not qualified to diagnose a sick bird. If the professionals I have to rely upon are negligent or wrong, its out of my hands.
If you find another bird that has symptoms that could be canker then ask if a swab can be examined under the microscope. Canker is caused by trichomonads , a protozoa that is easily identified with a microscope but which does not survive for long outside a host (so the swab must be fresh).
I took one of my early canker rescues to the vet, she diagnosed canker but put him to sleep and said that she would have done the same if it was a valuable racing pigeon (she was a nasty woman who said she didn't believe in trying to save the lives of animals that others were trying to kill...I wonder if she will feel the same if she is ever a victim of attempted murder?). Later I realised that there was a chance a rehabber could have nursed him back to health.
Cynthia
I took one of my early canker rescues to the vet, she diagnosed canker but put him to sleep and said that she would have done the same if it was a valuable racing pigeon (she was a nasty woman who said she didn't believe in trying to save the lives of animals that others were trying to kill...I wonder if she will feel the same if she is ever a victim of attempted murder?). Later I realised that there was a chance a rehabber could have nursed him back to health.
Cynthia
Cynthia, I'm sorry to hear about how that vet treated your first canker patient. I don't understand her attitude towards pigeons.
Rehabbers here in Australia don't take on sick feral pigeons, so apart from entrusting their care to vets, there's not a lot of options for people who find sick pigeons and want to help.
In situations like this, I wish I had the qualifications to diagnose and treat diseased birds. But I don't. I feel that a regular person should be able to go to a vet and get them to do their job, which is to save life. Theres noone else to turn to.
Rehabbers here in Australia don't take on sick feral pigeons, so apart from entrusting their care to vets, there's not a lot of options for people who find sick pigeons and want to help.
In situations like this, I wish I had the qualifications to diagnose and treat diseased birds. But I don't. I feel that a regular person should be able to go to a vet and get them to do their job, which is to save life. Theres noone else to turn to.
You are 100% right Bella. Nobody is going to pay a vet $500 or more to help a feral pigeon but they will pay that to a vet to help their dog or cat. Veterinarians run a business, not a charity.
If you want to do something you can; after all nobody is going to do anything for the pigeons except someone who wants to try.
Oncoviruses, or viruses that cause cancer usually come from humans. ALthough there are some forms of cancer that affect birds, dogs and cats, nobody really knows what causes cancer. So that means that even if you try to help and fail, at least the last days of the bird's suffering can be lessened. You should also know that pigeons do recover from some forms of virus, with help and supportive care.
If you want to do something you can; after all nobody is going to do anything for the pigeons except someone who wants to try.
Oncoviruses, or viruses that cause cancer usually come from humans. ALthough there are some forms of cancer that affect birds, dogs and cats, nobody really knows what causes cancer. So that means that even if you try to help and fail, at least the last days of the bird's suffering can be lessened. You should also know that pigeons do recover from some forms of virus, with help and supportive care.
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
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