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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, Cocoa is back inside. This is the 3rd fall in a row that I have had to bring him in. Now I'm convinced he has "chronic" paratyphoid.
Symptoms - limps off and on all year
When cold weather sets in - puffs up, rapid weight loss (but still eats).
He's fading quickly! (no canker and he's been wormed)
I've had him on clavamox for the past 2 weeks. *Should I change to Baytril?
He's only interested in eating wheat bread on his own now. (when I put his food in, he just stands and looks at it. If I crumble some wheat bread, he runs over and gobble's it down :confused: but won't touch his seed) I'm going to have to tube feed him to get some nourishment into him.
So my MAIN question is - Would it be beneficial to change him over to Baytril and can I do it right away?
Any and all additional help would be appreciated!!
 

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I'm so sorry to hear about this.

Has this been diagnosed?
If so then I'm sure Baytril would be the recommendation.

The only thing is if the bird has been on so many medications he just may need to have his immune system brought back in check also.

What supportive measures have you been using?
 

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Baytril is a recommended treatment for Paratyphoid. I would use Clavamox (Synulox here) for wounds, especially from a predator.

Not aware of any reason why you cannot switch over to Baytril.

Does he have the swellings on the joints often associated with Paratyphoid? Has he actually been diagnosed with Paratyphoid in the past?

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, He was diagnosed 2 years ago (the first time he had symptoms) in the fall.
Returned last fall, same symptoms. Brought inside, treated with 2 different antibiotics, on heat and supplemental feedings. Pulled thru again but had to stay inside for the winter. Was fine and put back out this summer. Great all summer. As soon as cold weather came - same symptoms returned. So I brought inside again with heat and started clavamox (2 weeks ago).
Limps and 1 leg joint swells off and on - year round
He was not on any antibiotics all spring or summer.
ACV in water 2 times a week. He IS eating some food, but mostly wants wheat bread. Haven't had to tube feed yet. But I think maybe soon just to give him a boost.
 

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Ok what I usually do is taking care of two aspects of the paratyphoid:
Pain in joints and most probably in GI tract – that requires separate treatment and in this case Arnica for joints swelling and chamomile tea for GI pain calming will work fine.
Bacterial infection – salmonella that I would treat with Chloramphenicol (Chevita) rather than Baytril or Amoxicilin. So far I had much better results with it than any other antibiotic.
Supportive care is a must if bird is not eating enough and again, baby formula with drop of honey is my choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok what I usually do is taking care of two aspects of the paratyphoid:
Pain in joints and most probably in GI tract – that requires separate treatment and in this case Arnica for joints swelling and chamomile tea for GI pain calming will work fine.
Bacterial infection – salmonella that I would treat with Chloramphenicol (Chevita) rather than Baytril or Amoxicilin. So far I had much better results with it than any other antibiotic.
Supportive care is a must if bird is not eating enough and again, baby formula with drop of honey is my choice.
I don't have any chloamphenicol on hand (and if memory serves me well, I had a hard time finding that last year, but I do have baytril.
I just found my medical notes for last year.
Cocoa was started on Baytril. Then a month later put on doxycycline.
 

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is antibios given in all chronic cases just in case? I know pmv is a virus, when they are having an episode do they always have secondary issues?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
is antibios given in all chronic cases just in case? I know pmv is a virus, when they are having an episode do they always have secondary issues?
Good question - I wish I had a really good avian vet that could answer that :confused:
In previous episodes my vet started on antibiotics, and it brought him around.
But I guess the supportive care could have had a hand in it too:confused:
That's why I'm asking - really not sure, but I have to do something.
 

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is antibios given in all chronic cases just in case? I know pmv is a virus, when they are having an episode do they always have secondary issues? [/B]
When the birds are having an "episode" it is usually when they are stressed. Those episodes deplete their B vitamins and calcium and much more, which leaves them wide open to secondary issues, including watery poop as their gut flora also becomes off as it depleted by stress, so it is important for them to get some extra nutrtrition in the way of calcium with D3 ( if they don't get any sun) and B complex also important for issues involving the nervous system.

When not on antibiotics I would give alfalfa tab, cod liver oil, in addition to a good source of B vitamins, such as brewers yeast, followed with probiotics. If the stomach isn't upset i would give a garlic cap each day, along with Neem oil. You have to consider also that antibiotics deplete gut flora as well as keep other nutrients from assimilation.
 

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I don't have best experience with Baytril so I'm the last person who will recommend it. :)
I would use LINCO-SPECTIN if possible it is better then other ones and works on gram + and - bacteria.
Also 2,5% lactose solution instead of water reduces colonization of salmonella bacteria.

P.S. If nothing else then go as you did last year and let's hope that works again.
 

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is antibios given in all chronic cases just in case? I know pmv is a virus, when they are having an episode do they always have secondary issues?
Just to confirm, we are talking PARATYPH (Salmonella) not PMV (Paramixovirus) Salmonella=bacteria reacts on antibiotic, PMV=virus reacts on immuno-stimulants.
 

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Just to confirm, we are talking PARATYPH (Salmonella) not PMV (Paramixovirus) Salmonella=bacteria reacts on antibiotic, PMV=virus reacts on immuno-stimulants.
ohhhh, I did get them mixed up.
Salmonella can cause Balance disorders as well as pmv.

hope he pulls through for you, I know you must be worried about him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ohhhh, I did get them mixed up.
Salmonella can cause Balance disorders as well as pmv.

hope he pulls through for you, I know you must be worried about him.
LOL Yes, salmonella - I knew that lol Treat with antibiotics -- I think I was brain dead this morning. I get that way when I'm tired of thinking :rolleyes:
 

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Waynette...it could be something different this time and would be worth while to have him re-diagnosed.
Have you ever treated your birds for coccidia?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Waynette...it could be something different this time and would be worth while to have him re-diagnosed.
Have you ever treated your birds for coccidia?
When I had the culture and sensitivity done the last 2 times it came back salmonella. Just to be sure, I'm going to take another sample to work with me tomorrow.
 

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When I had the culture and sensitivity done the last 2 times it came back salmonella. Just to be sure, I'm going to take another sample to work with me tomorrow.

I think that's a good idea...just in case.
 

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Just to add a note,since there seems to be different meds being advised and may be confusing. Paratyphoid should be treated for a minimum of 21 days and as long as 45 days in severe cases. Doxycycline 20% "vet n pigeon experts suggestion" is a recommended drug as is Amoxicillan "Frequently recommended by vets". Sulmet and Albon 12.5% are also recommended drugs, Albon stays in birds system for 12 hours at a time.Drugs should be alternated so an immunity is not built up against 1 drug (different breakouts that is ). The bird is a carrier of the disease if it keeps coming down with the disease,which is correct as stated can be brought on by stress. The loft should be cleaned and disinfected,as not to spread the disease.
 
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