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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does anyone know much about crop burn? or if there are any other conditions in the crop that resemble it? We have lost some doves resently at the center I work at. some new interns got trained on doves and suddenly they are getting what looks to be crop burn, but staff has been feeling the temp of the formula (we use Exact with warm water) and if anything the interns have been making it to cold. But I know it only takes one time, and they may have missed feeling it a few times.
I am really worried about the doves, it has been nearly 20 that have died or needed to be euthanized :(

It starts off with the doves looking lathargic, then you start to feel resistance in the crop with the tube when you feed, then it starts to show, and feel from the outside like a clump of clay in their crop, then it expans to the throat and they start having trouble breathing, they keep their eyes half closed, then they die :(

I''ve cried so much this week over them and don't know whats going on. I use a rubber tube and room temp Exact. and only feed once their crop is empty.

The feed board shows to feed the babies every 2 hours, the juvi doves every 4 hours and the adults twice a day.

The adults are all fine because they are just getting seed and water, but I'm worried some people can't judge if the babies need more food yet, and will keep tubing them more formula. They all digest slower of faster so just saying 'every two hours' isn't always right.
Plus they use metal tubes and I'm wondering if that is too rough for them and maybe that is causing something.

Please help, because whatever it is happening to these doves it's a really bad way to die, and I want to make it stop.

If anyone knows a good web site on crop problems please let me know.

P.S. when my vet has done necropsies on them, she said it still looks like crop burn. so it may be, but if there is a chance it's something else I want to know.

thank you.
 

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does anyone know much about crop burn? or if there are any other conditions in the crop that resemble it? We have lost some doves resently at the center I work at. some new interns got trained on doves and suddenly they are getting what looks to be crop burn, but staff has been feeling the temp of the formula (we use Exact with warm water) and if anything the interns have been making it to cold. But I know it only takes one time, and they may have missed feeling it a few times.
I am really worried about the doves, it has been nearly 20 that have died or needed to be euthanized :(

It starts off with the doves looking lathargic, then you start to feel resistance in the crop with the tube when you feed, then it starts to show, and feel from the outside like a clump of clay in their crop, then it expans to the throat and they start having trouble breathing, they keep their eyes half closed, then they die :(

I''ve cried so much this week over them and don't know whats going on. I use a rubber tube and room temp Exact. and only feed once their crop is empty.

The feed board shows to feed the babies every 2 hours, the juvi doves every 4 hours and the adults twice a day.

The adults are all fine because they are just getting seed and water, but I'm worried some people can't judge if the babies need more food yet, and will keep tubing them more formula. They all digest slower of faster so just saying 'every two hours' isn't always right.
Plus they use metal tubes and I'm wondering if that is too rough for them and maybe that is causing something.

Please help, because whatever it is happening to these doves it's a really bad way to die, and I want to make it stop.

If anyone knows a good web site on crop problems please let me know.

P.S. when my vet has done necropsies on them, she said it still looks like crop burn. so it may be, but if there is a chance it's something else I want to know.

thank you.
you say burn you mean a physical burn not a yeast or sour crop? if it is a burn from say hot water someone is not doing something right, what other possible thing can burn like that??? bad formula???

The only thing I can think of to look into is young bird sickness the here are the symtoms Death preceded by visible signs of illness:
During the period between the onset of symptoms and death (lasting from 3 days to 1 week), the following symptoms are observed: lack of activity, puffed-up plumage, refusal of feed, swelling of the crop, weight loss, greenish-yellow faeces in puddles, vomiting.
 

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Sounds like YOU are dong it correctly.
Adding more food to a crop that already has food in it is just asking for trouble because it can cause a bacterial infection.
With slow crop...add applesauce for human babies mixed with a couple of ccs of warm water... gently massage the crop and that should get the crop moving normally.
Have these Doves been checked for canker?
 

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The following is a big problem...

"The feed board shows to feed the babies every 2 hours,"
 

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BIRDS WITH CROP PROBLEMS

(crop stasis, crop infection, "sour crop")



1. What is the crop?

The crop is a part of the digestive system of most birds. It is a storage area for food before it enters the stomach. Young birds have a very large crop which contracts as the bird grows older. The crop wall is very thin in birds and is prone to tears, burns and injuries.



2. What causes crop problems?

Normally the crop empties shortly after the bird eats but sometimes a condition known as "crop stasis" occurs, in which there is a delay in the crop emptying. Delayed or reduced crop emptying can occur due to crop burns, overfilling or infections with parasites (eg trichomoniasis), fungi or bacteria. Kidney disease, heavy metal poisoning and viral disease (eg polyoma) can also be responsible. In handreared baby birds crop stasis may occur if the food they are fed is too cold. If the crop does not empty, the food inside then starts to decompose, leading to a condition often referred to as “sour crop”.



3. What are the clinical signs of a crop problem?

Clinical signs depend upon the severity of the disease. Signs range from “fluffing up” to decreased appetite, swollen crop, regurgitation and vomiting. Depending on the cause of the problem, your bird may show other signs such as excessive thirst, abdominal swelling and changes in the appearance of the droppings (eg abnormal colour or consistency).



4. How is the crop problem diagnosed?

A sample is taken from the crop and examined under the microscope to look for fungi or other parasites. Special staining of the crop sample is also necessary to determine the presence of harmful bacteria. In some cases, a culture and sensitivity laboratory test may also need to be performed to determine exactly which type of bacteria is present and the drug/s to which it is sensitive.

Blood tests or xrays may also be needed to detect the underlying cause eg heavy metal poisoning, kidney disease.



5. What is the treatment?

Treatment may involve antibiotics, anti-parasitic drugs, anti-fungal drugs, change in husbandry (eg temperature of food given to young birds) or just symptomatic treatment for the birds with suspected viral diseases. In severe cases your bird will need to stay in hospital for several days while it is stabilised and fluids and nutritional supplements administered.



6. What preventative measures are needed?

A good diet that includes pellets or crumbles and fresh foods; a clean cage environment with no exposure to toxic metals such as lead, zinc and copper; protection from wild birds; and protection from extremes of heat and cold. Annual health checks may find a crop problem before your bird becomes unwell.





Content © Copyright Bird Veterinarian
 

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If the vet saw crop burn in the necropsy, then that is pretty clear.
Do you microwave the water to warm it? Then it can be too hot. Better to use warm (not hot) tap water.
Your feeding is right, feed only when crop is empty.
If they use the same tube for all babies, wash after each baby thoroughly.
The formula should be not too consistent, they might have trouble braking it down and it can cause clumps to form.

Reti
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you so much for all of that. I'm going to talk to our vet on staff here tomorrow, we have been trying to get to the bottom of this with not to much luck because there are too many people in and out of that room feeding them. I with I could take over the room and make sure it all went smooth.
It's hard to suggest ideas to my superviser on changes to the feed board, but if you could give me feeding ideas (with solid proof-cause apparetly all my years of experiance isn't good enough to change the feed board)
The vet we have here is an amazing woman and she listens to all ideas to I will talk to her first and they will listen to her.
Thanks again so much. this helps a lot :)
 

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Thank you so much for all of that. I'm going to talk to our vet on staff here tomorrow, we have been trying to get to the bottom of this with not to much luck because there are too many people in and out of that room feeding them. I with I could take over the room and make sure it all went smooth.
It's hard to suggest ideas to my superviser on changes to the feed board, but if you could give me feeding ideas (with solid proof-cause apparetly all my years of experiance isn't good enough to change the feed board)
The vet we have here is an amazing woman and she listens to all ideas to I will talk to her first and they will listen to her.
Thanks again so much. this helps a lot :)
since there are so many people, maybe you can put a note up stating the proper warming method for the formula and what the problem has been.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
no. we NEVER use a microwave. and we use warm tap water. at least I do, it's hard to watch every intern every day, because I might be on the other side of the clinic giving val-molassas to a raccoon in a seizure. It's crazy here during baby season, and some people are rushed or have no bird experiance, it just makes me so sad :(
We use Clorahexidine then rince with water on the tube/syringe between each bird, but again like I said, some people might not because "it takes to long" which makes me mad.. we have about 100 doves/pigeons right now so some people get overwhelmed. where as i want to spend all day in that room with them to make sure they are getting the care they need.
what do you mean by 'The formula should be not too consistent' ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
since there are so many people, maybe you can put a note up stating the proper warming method for the formula and what the problem has been.
Oh believe me.. I've tried.. there is a HUGE bright yellow sigh at the 'formula station' and then another on the door to the room they are in and even another at the 'feeding station'

...some peope just don't seem to care.
I have brought it up to staff in our morning meetings so many times. but we are still having babies die :(
 

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Oh believe me.. I've tried.. there is a HUGE bright yellow sigh at the 'formula station' and then another on the door to the room they are in and even another at the 'feeding station'

...some peope just don't seem to care.
I have brought it up to staff in our morning meetings so many times. but we are still having babies die :(
wow what a set up you guys must have! the thing is if this is a physical burn the only solution is to stop the person doing it...if it is crop stasis then that needs to be treated like charis said...you may have to get tough on this one, wish we could be there in person to help but we can't so I guess it is up to you to try to correct the person doing it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We keep track of every feed on a chart for each bird and when you feed you need to weigh daily, mark how many cc's were given of formula/LRS or pedia, mark if the feces are abnormal, if they are dehydrated, and other observations, then initial.
but with 100 babies, some people don't keep track very well, or just write what they think without really checking :( it sucks.
But i've been doing some reaserch and trying to figure out which names keep showing up on the charts when the birds don't look well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I know to only feed when the crop is empty, but what should I tell staff to put on the board? I know that 'every two hours' is way to often, but it needs to be on the board, so how often shoud I say to them? I will add after it "Only if crop is empty"
 

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You know...it varies for every bird and depending upon the size. A little, just hatched baby won't hold as much formula and will need to be fed more often.
Instructions on the board do need to read...Only if crop is empty.
Maybe you can get everyone together for instruction or giver everyone a flier with Pigeon/Dove basic information.
They really are so different from the way one cares for other baby birds. That's what you need to get through to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I want to write just that, but my superviser doesn't seem to know much about pigeons... during training she said "Pigeons drink thru their nares"
And when I asked if I could give them bath water she looked at me like I was crazy to think pigeons would take a bath.... so it's a tough one.
We have young pigeons here with canker and she still tells people to use metal tubes to feed them... I always use rubber tubes because it's obviously safer.
I can't wait till I start my own pigeon rescue. I hate watching babies die here because people are getting taught improper feeding.
 

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Give her a link to this site or any other site where she might be educated about Pigeons/Doves and their care.
 
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