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Hi Everyone,

Did you know....
"A shocking 1.186 bird species risk becoming extinct in the next 100 years. Even worse, 182 of these are Critically Endangered - meaning they could be extinct in just 10 years."

Many of our members are aware of the tragic story of the decimation of the Passenger Pigeon. Many bird species have and will suffer the same fate. The following link provides information and most important, what you can do to help prevent this from happening:
http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/actionalerts.html

Any comments or opinions would be welcome.

Thanks,
Linda
 

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Thanks for bringing this link to our attention. The statistics are mind-boggling,
I loved looking at all the beatiful birds while @ the same time feeling horrible about them. And then I clicked on the coffee link and felt like a heel :( .
I've been aware for a long time about how our habits effect so many conditions
on the planet, but it still hit hard.
Thanks again,
fp
 

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Thanks Linda,

It's most unfortunate that this subject has to come up. I wish I had more optimism regarding this soon to be "mass extinction". Sadly, man has destroyed most of the rain forests and natural habitats globally. Unless there is a HUGE change in politics and general conservation worldwide, I don't see it getting better before it gets worse. The human "species" is (in my opinion) a disease that is infesting the planet. We are ruining and taking over every eco-system available. Unless there is a new plague or another asteroid impact, I feel that we are killing ourselves and the rest of nature. Sorry to be such a pessimist about it:(
 

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Hello Lin,

Do you think extinction of varies species, evens hundreds or thousands of them, is part of the "Natural Order" ? After all, this process has been going on for millions of years. Right now humans are infesting the planet. In time this infestation will go full circle, and humans will become extinct.

Every day, billions of people, contribute to the destruction. I am afraid I don't have much faith, that this specie will not literally destroy itself from the results of over population.

In the end, my bet is Mother Nature will win out, and correct the situation. When humans become extinct, nature will repair itself from the wounds infected on her, in a relatively short period of time. Major improvement will occur in just a few thousand years. Who knows, maybe a few hundred thousand years after the last human, there may be very little evidence we were even here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Warren,

Do you think extinction of varies species, evens hundreds or thousands of them, is part of the "Natural Order" ? After all, this process has been going on for millions of years.

Good question.....

I am definitely not an expert on this, but in my opinion, the answer is "No." Perhaps as recently as two thousand years ago, extinctions of various species may have occurred as a part of the "Natural Order," but not anymore, I feel.

What I am about to say is just my own theory--not anything that I've read anywhere--so I would welcome any comments to the contrary if my thinking incorrect.

I would say that before the inventions of modern technology, modern industry, gas powered and steam powered machinery and vehicles, etc., humans were pretty limited as to the extent of damage they could do to the environment. I would say that damage to land and the animals that inhabited the land was fairly limited to the most populated areas that humans inhabited, leaving vast stretches of country untouched. I would theorize that at this time, the Natural Order was still for the most part occurring. As humans gained the means to go out of their areas to harvest what they needed (or just wanted), this is where the trouble started. I think that for a very long time humans felt an "entitlement" to just take what they wanted and also without thought (whether through arrogance or ignorance) to the fact that some animals and resources could indeed be finite...that is to say, to take and take and take, without any thought to conservation or preservation, those animals and resources would run out and be gone forever.

I think it's a good thing that many people and nations have begun to wake up to this fact and are at least making an effort to correct the situation. On a much smaller scale, the situation has occurred in my own area. I live in a part of New Jersey that was always known as "the wetlands." Over the last hundred or so years, building and industry took over, paving and building over many of the wetlands, causing many animals to lose their natural homes and eliminating a natural part of our local environment. Luckily, the last few years a real effort has been made to re-establish and permanently preserve our wetlands...and the wildlife is coming back, so progress is being made, albeit on a very small scale.

No one would ever think of me as a "tree hugger," by any means--and I fear your comments and Brad's comments may well be true...pessimistic, yes, but true all the same--but if everyone would make an effort of their own to conserve or preserve, even in a small way, it certainly wouldn't hurt matters, and may in fact, help.

Linda
 
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passenger pigeon

when i read this i immediately thought of the passenger pigeon. This species, which used to have an extimated population of 5 BILLION were brought to extinction in 50 years. \
how SAD is that?????
 

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Extinction Sucks

as indicated in title, EXTINCTION SUCKS! :mad:
and it is our fault...
here we are, a small minority group in a world that hates feral pigeons (a bit drastic, yea...but it is kind of correct)
what if one day, they would be rendered to extinction just like the passenger pigeons???
:eek:

Oh, no...
 

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As Warren indicated. Extinction is natural. Unfortunate but natural. Man causes extinction many times, but so do other causes. Weather, and other acts of "God".

We can attempt to save what we can, but in the end. Many species of life will become extince every year. I actually read somewhere that there are THOUSANDS of species of life that become extinct every year. Thousands every year.

That is hard for me to comprehend but it seems to be so. Apparently most of these species are insects and such.

How does one take steps to save a gopher on one hand, and not take steps to save a mosquito on the other?
 

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It's a quandary for sure, conditionfreak.
 

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Interesting thoughts, I too wonder about the plight of not only animals but mankind. I beleive in God and creation, I've tried not to, just can't get past the all of the proof of biblical history and scientific proof of creation. Man has caused so much pain and demise over the centuries. Spririt wings, it is the "love" of money that is the root of all evil, not money. Just to be accurate. i think greed, power hunger, lust for wordly pleasure, and a lack of respect for God and each other is the problem. God created man to have dominion over all of the animals and I believer that in the garden of eden it was perfect, then satan and the influence of sin started all the problems. Since then it has been a downhill struggle. I don't mean this to be a sermon, but I don't think we can stop anything, I think we can slow it down as observed about the bald eagle population. As I get older, I have more compassion for my fellow man and God's creation, which includes animals, fowl, fish, etc. I use what God has given me as wisely as I can, I do not waste his resources, but some day if God is true, and I believe he is, it will all come to an end. somehow, I believe that heaven will be full of all of his best stuff. At least it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to think so. But,,,,,,, wouldn't it have been wonderful to have been able to witness the passenger pigeon? Or the Buffalo in the millions passing over the plains? I just think we all need to be good stewards of what God has given us and things will work out for the best. unfortunately, as we become more and more populated and industrialized, things will become extinct. Sad, but true...........
 

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The most common reason for extinction is a species lack of the ability to adapt. When a particular food supply is lost, they are unable to find a substitue; when a brush or forest fire (all too often caused by man, but man fights fire) in a specific habitat, an already weakened species goes extinct.
Some love to claim tha manmade global warming is one culprit. This is rubbish! Warming/cooling/climate change being manmade is so farfetched by any reasonable standerd of proof, that the idea is ludicrous. A single Volcaho eruption about a century ago caused more climate change than man has since the beginning of history.
Thirty years ago, the hue and cry was about manmade global cooling....Now it's global warming! The most endangered species in North America today is the privately employed American. When that species dies out, the next species to go will be the free American.
Get real, people!
 

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The most common reason for extinction is a species lack of the ability to adapt. When a particular food supply is lost, they are unable to find a substitue; when a brush or forest fire (all too often caused by man, but man fights fire) in a specific habitat, an already weakened species goes extinct.
Some love to claim tha manmade global warming is one culprit. This is rubbish! Warming/cooling/climate change being manmade is so farfetched by any reasonable standerd of proof, that the idea is ludicrous. A single Volcaho eruption about a century ago caused more climate change than man has since the beginning of history.
Thirty years ago, the hue and cry was about manmade global cooling....Now it's global warming! The most endangered species in North America today is the privately employed American. When that species dies out, the next species to go will be the free American.
Get real, people!
Family=Love=God, What more can ask!
 

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as indicated in title, EXTINCTION SUCKS! :mad:
and it is our fault...
here we are, a small minority group in a world that hates feral pigeons (a bit drastic, yea...but it is kind of correct)
what if one day, they would be rendered to extinction just like the passenger pigeons???
:eek:

Oh, no...
I wouldn't worry about columba livia becomming extinct. Very possibly the last meal of the last human being on the face of the earth will be either a pigeons egg or a pigeon itsef.
The first law of survival of a species is adaptability. Without a doubt, there are several species of birds that are supremely adaptable, and the rock dove is at or near the top of the list.

One of the things that extinction doomsayers conveniently ignore is that the following is an absolute, and rule number one is: All things come to an end. No baby of any creature is immortal. The same is true of species, and even the earth itself.
Number two: Nature abhors a vacuum. If one species goes extinct, either one that is more adaptable (and therefor more efficient) will take- its place. If none take its place, a new species will.
Number three: Nature is in charge. Nothing that man can do, in spite of his intelligence, inventiveness, etc., can overcome rules 1 and 2.
Rule number four: Nature is a B I itch. Refer to rules 1, 2, and 3.
 

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who opened this can of worms,..-call it what you want,,global-problem,whether its man made or not,.we are all in the same small ecoshere of life,it is changing,the weather patterns will be more extreme,the earth changes-the-last mini iceage 1315ad-to-1815ad-500 years long.,google 1815 the year without a summer,...man is the most adaptable mammal on the planet-but most of us will be gone-,the industrial revolution post 1815ad for which some of mankind progressed,has left said planet in a very sad state,,so where do we go from here,,we are all contributors-kneeling down is-not going to help,affirmitive action will cost/bankrupt any country,.we can slow the enivitable down,but we are-not going to stop it-big changes are coming-extinctions,are part of the cycle,..i think it helps to discuss this-however this is a website for life/about(pigeons)-,sincerely james waller
 

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who opened this can of worms,..-call it what you want,,global-problem,whether its man made or not,.we are all in the same small ecoshere of life,it is changing,the weather patterns will be more extreme,the earth changes-the-last mini iceage 1315ad-to-1815ad-500 years long.,google 1815 the year without a summer,...man is the most adaptable mammal on the planet-but most of us will be gone-,the industrial revolution post 1815ad for which some of mankind progressed,has left said planet in a very sad state,,so where do we go from here,,we are all contributors-kneeling down is-not going to help,affirmitive action will cost/bankrupt any country,.we can slow the enivitable down,but we are-not going to stop it-big changes are coming-extinctions,are part of the cycle,..i think it helps to discuss this-however this is a website for life/about(pigeons)-,sincerely james waller

All part of this forum and the diversity of threads, James. And, PIGEONS are involved...

Circle of life...

Love and Hugs

Shi :)
 

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The number one rule of nature is "survival of the fit". (adaptability). Humans try and sometimes succeed in thwarting this rule of nature. We usually do it because we believe it is the humane or right thing to do. But how do we choose when, what and how?

Man has influence, but can not (we have tried over and over) best nature. As has been said by someone else earlier in this thread, everything comes to an end. It just comes down to when, where, why and how.

Sometimes it is better to let nature control itself, than for man to take the wheel. Species come and go. It is the way of earth. Sometimes it is a good thing that a species "goes" (maybe man made killer bees, or the Black Widow spider). Can you imagine if North America had T-Rex roaming the Midwest states?

Often you see documentaries on TV about a camera man following a motherless baby elephant or baby rhino, which is starving, around for weeks, until it dies of starvation or is killed by predators. I often watch and wonder why the camera man and his crew do not help the poor thing.

Their explanation is that because it is nature, it is the unwritten law of naturalist and those involved in this type of work that humans should not get involved if humans did not have a hand in what caused the problem in the first place. (ie: if poachers killed the mother elephant, then it would be alright and actually incumbent upon humans to help the baby. But if lions or disease killed the mother elephant, then humans should not get involved in saving the baby.)

I understand this "unwritten law" and guess it is probably a decent way of dealing with these types of situations. Although I can not "do nothing" myself, when a needing living thing comes before me. I know that most who frequent this web site feel the same way.

It is a quandry for sure. A personal decision each and every time.

Would you save a feral pigeon from the clutches of a Cooper's Hawk, if they were struggling in the grass, in a park, as you just happened to be walking by? Would you save a kitten being attacked by a Red Tail Hawk in a similar situation? Would you use a live minnow in an attempt to catch a bigger fish for sport or food? Would you save a grasshopper that was in the clutches of a Praying Mantis in your garden?

Hawks and Praying Mantis need to eat also.

Don't even get me started on Bull Fighting, Hunting and Trapping!

I don't know the answer to these types of questions, but I know what I can live with within myself. My own little world.

One of my personal interests is the "Thylacine" ( also known as the Tasmanian Tiger), which is allegedly extinct. Below is a link to a video of them while still alive. Fantastic creature. Some anecdotal evidence suggests that there may be some still around, but most likely not. When it went extinct, the earth did not change. Nature did not go topsy turvy. The circle of life was not greatly interupted. What happened is we simply feel bad about it. But life and earth goes on. With or without Tasmanian Tigers and mankind.

P.S. You will like this animal in the video. Facinating. "Possibly" still in existence (let's hope).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqCCI1ZF7o
 

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......Species come and go. It is the way of earth. Sometimes it is a good thing that a species "goes" (maybe man made killer bees, or the Black Widow spider).....
Actually the human has gone to great lengths to try to destroy certain species....right now, we are trying to kill off the little bug known as "Swine Flu", as well as countless little critters which try to live within us, and on or in our dogs and cats, and many of the animals we find "favor" with, as well as countless little things which go bump in the dead of the night. I don't know why we shed a tear over one, and not the other. I guess it is human nature to want to feel in control of our universe. Some peoplle would use the less aceptable, and not politically correct term of "Play God". And that is why there are such political and religious overtones in all of this. It is a desire to feel some kind of meaning. Long after I am dead and gone, and my remains have turned to dust, I believe Mother Nature will win out, and we as a specie will face the same fate, like all the millions of species before us. It's debatable if as a specie, we can prolong that process, and none of us reading these pages will ever know the end result.
 

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Yep. Manure has just as important a function in nature, as does the horse.

It is not inconceivable that someday, there will be a group of people taking measures to "save the fleas and ticks".

Even ugly babies have someone who loves them. (I know I did) :)

Oh, by the way. I do know how it turns out. I and everyone else, and every living thing, dies. Every species is doomed to become extinct. "Forever" is a really, really, REALLY long time. :)
 

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Thinking about the Passenger Pigeon, and looking at some photos of it brings back a memory.

I've gotta ask you guys if there are any similar-looking bird species in the plains states.

When I was a young teen, my cousin and I saw a pigeon/dove-shaped bird with a blue grey back and a yellow stomach. It was at least of pigeon size. I don't know anything of its behavior, as the cats got it. My cousin said she had never seen a bird like that before, and neither had I.

It just pokes at my brain how much it looked like pictures I've seen of "Martha" the last passenger pigeon. I know the chance of it having been one is almost nothing.
 
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