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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you remember my two recent cases with pigeons having eye problems.

One of them, the small brown pigeon, lost his eye. This morning was still apparently ok but then I gave a dewormer and in the evening I noticed his eye filled with liquid and when I checked, the cornea was gone, the eye was flatened with nothing between iris and atmosphere.

The other pigeon keeps the eye shut and the eyelids are swolledn. CBL sent a photo to a vet she knows and he said is eye worm. The symptoms corespond, from what I've read on some chicken forums.

Have anyone meet this problem?




I also remember from an older thread that Jay said metronidazole overdose causes blindness. The two pigeons were overdosed with metro and I remember a case (pigeon died) few months ago with a pigeon also overdosed that developed some similar eye problem (a sort of film on eye surface or other kind of thing making the eye look a little whiter). For this reason, I was tempted to think that may be what Jay said. Is somehow possible the drug to accumulate in eye? I'm saying this because as I said, the pigeon appeared ok in the morning, was seeing with the eye and after giving a flubendazole drug, everything turned bad.
 

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AndreiS hard to say, could it be eye worm that is spreading thru the population or coincidentally a result of WAY too many meds or overdose you tend to mix too many drugs, jump around to many without doing a full duration of any one of them. Short of having one of them examined by a vet to see the eye and tell if it is in fact a worm or overdose, u may never know. You could also buy the aviworm or whatever Jerry said and see if that helps. The problem with guessing all the time is the amount of drugs you end up having to use. I had my birds fecal tested for both parasites and bacteria. Came back clean for parasites but low ecoli bacteria. Non pathogenic.

Why do you give so much metro anyway and not stick to proper dosage for proper duration?
Just wondering whats behind your thinking.
 

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Sorry to hear about your bird losing his cornea. I had a guinea pig that developed an abscess behind his eye that started with a tooth problem and the cornea just fell off. Hope you can narrow down what is happening to the poor birdie. Can you culture any liquid from the eye? Agree with CBL that a vet visit may be indicated. Hope he is ok.
 

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Feeling so bad about birds... Meds are toxic and to be administered cautiously. Now if overdosed who has to suffer life long?
Should go to a vet and get examined as CBL said.

Really hope it is not a case of overdosing.
 

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So sorry for the bad news Andreis. Considering the eye problems existed before you used medicine, and its more than one bird, you'd think its more likely to be the eye worm, like you and CBL have suspected. The timing makes sense too.

Mainly for now, I would want to get a topical antibiotic treatment for the eye. If the globe is punctured and leaking, its best to treat quickly, and stay on top of it.

I have a dove here whose eye was punctured and collapsed by a canker mass as it was pushed out of the front sinus cavity. The resulting infection can be pretty bad and ongoing, so I'd urge you to get help fast.

Here's a link to a thread about some meds that worked for a pigeon with its eye pecked out.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/punctured-eye-23995.html

the vet prescribed oral antibiotics (Cefa) Opthalmic drops (Gentocin) and a painkiller (Torbegesic)
 

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Im wondering if you should get the meds and treat all your birds cuz if this is the second bird, maybe it has spread. See what you can do.
 

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Good advice CBL; I checked out some of those chicken eye worm threads that Adreis mentioned too, and if the eye collapses from eye worms dying, its usually when there's an advanced infestation. The eyes should recover if the infestation is treated during early stages.

I noticed the chook people use something called VetRx for eye worm, which isn't an antibiotic or worm med. Its kind of like tiger balm, that you put inside the mouth, on roof the of the mouth where the sinus drains. I'm not recommending it, just noticed that that seems to be the remedy chook owners use.

And what an awful thing ! I'd be in tears to see this in my flock.
 

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Good advice CBL; I checked out some of those chicken eye worm threads that Adreis mentioned too, and if the eye collapses from eye worms dying, its usually when there's an advanced infestation. The eyes should recover if the infestation is treated during early stages.

I noticed the chook people use something called VetRx for eye worm, which isn't an antibiotic or worm med. Its kind of like tiger balm, that you put inside the mouth, on roof the of the mouth where the sinus drains. I'm not recommending it, just noticed that that seems to be the remedy chook owners use.

And what an awful thing ! I'd be in tears to see this in my flock.
So true Bella.. Same feeling here. Can't see birds suffering so badly even when of Andrei, still they are whom we love. Really pray they recover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I was wrong, the eye is still functional but there is a sort of slightly opaque (white) film over the globe which is punctured in one place and in that place the eye tissue is protruding outside like a small blister:








At the other pigeon, the eyelids are seriously swollen:




I've been treating both of them in last 5-6 days by applying a tetracycline ointment directly on the eyeball and to date I can't say there is any improvement.

From what I've read, the eye worm needs an intermediary host to reproduce:

Worm eggs deposited in the eye pass into the tear duct, are swallowed by the chicken and expelled in droppings, and are eaten the Surinam ****roach

When a chicken eats an infective ****roach, worm larvae migrate up the esophageus to the mouth, through the tear duct, and into the eye



Also, they are specific to warm zones, not exactly the casde of Romania.
 

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Pls ask a vet to look at them. So many meds can't be good for the birds. If it is some kind of infection or eye worm a good avian vet should be able to tell. Am so sorry this us happening. Please be cautious with meds. Everything has risks as well as benefits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The vet recommended the ointment but is a generalist doctor, not avian. There are no avian vets here.
 

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Did the vet SEE the bird or just talk to you over the phone, I say go get it looked at and or cultured to get a definitive diagnosis asap. Also wondering if a worm is a worm is a worm or parasite, try the ivermectin orally, see if that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, he saw him. His clinic is 100 m from where I stay, I can see it on the window.
But I tend to think the cause is metro overdose because I kept other pigeons in that place and who were equally immunodepressed but I not overdosed them and they didn't get the problem.

Nevertheless, the imflammation is probably of bacterial origin and in both cases antibiotic treatment is necessary. I don't know if some oral amoxicillin would be a good idea.
 

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You do know that Flubendazole belongs to the same drug family as fenbendazole, and can be toxic to pigeons, right? That along with all the other drugs you give them can cause problems. Don't think an overdose of any one drug here is a problem. Just an overdose of the many drugs you put into them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You do know that Flubendazole belongs to the same drug family as fenbendazole, and can be toxic to pigeons, right?
No other dewormer dosed for birds here.
 

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Andres,

The Ivermec that you used before on the pigeon is a wormer. One of its side effects if overdosed is blindness, though not likely- but its possible if you used too much and didn't check concentration.

Be careful with wormers in general, they are the riskiest drugs you have used, with very little margin for error. Jay is right about the risks of fenbendazole wormers.

Just regarding the possibility of overdose of metro, what dose did you give? I remember you saying it was thrown back up due to blockage in the throat.
Metro can be dosed up to 200mg (once off) according some of the old Harrison formularies, so its safety margin must be pretty large.

Finally, what is the ointment you've been putting on the eye for a week? Is it human grade or animal grade? I would be considering discontinuing its use in case the ulcer burned into the cornea is a side effect.

When did you take the pigeon to the vet and was eye worm ruled out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Andres,

The Ivermec that you used before on the pigeon is a wormer. One of its side effects if overdosed is blindness, though not likely- but its possible if you used too much and didn't check concentration.
I have used Invermectin only against mites, puting a drop or two on the back of the neck. I don't remember to have used it at the pigeons in question.


Just regarding the possibility of overdose of metro, what dose did you give? I remember you saying it was thrown back up due to blockage in the throat.
Metro can be dosed up to 200mg (once off) according some of the old Harrison formularies, so its safety margin must be pretty large.
I mat have given around 100 mg.

Finally, what is the ointment you've been putting on the eye for a week? Is it human grade or animal grade? I would be considering discontinuing its use in case the ulcer burned into the cornea is a side effect.
It is a veterinary drug, containing tetracycline. You think it is this drug that caused the ulceration? Is very possible so I will stop using it. It is necessary to use any other drug?


When did you take the pigeon to the vet and was eye worm ruled out?
I took both of them, the second on Friday, the first few days before. At that time, none of the tqo pigeons have been wormed already. This happened on Saturday.
 

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No other dewormer dosed for birds here.
Probably not worms. Could be an eye cold. Try to get one eye cold med FOR cattle. As it will get rid of a eye cold. Then you might have another desease. Can not remeber the name now. Seems it starts with a S.
 

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Thanks for helping me to properly understand the situation Andreas, thanks!.

My thoughts are you didn't overdose metro. 100mg was a big dose, not really an overdose unless given for many days in a row. Was it given by injection only?

Regarding the ointment in the eye, I don't know if you should discontinue. The eye looks like it needs an ointment. Can you get any different ointment to try in case it was an allergic reaction?

Finally have you noticed it scratching around the eyes much? Those ulcers can be caused by a simple thing like an accidental scratch.

Really sorry you're going through this. The birds are so sick anyway, its been hard for you to work out whats going on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Re Lee, previously, I treated for like 5 days for one eye cold with Doxyclicine, to no effect.

Bella, I'm pretty sure is metro. It happened to another pigeon that I picked two days ago and died yesterday of a very bad, unstopable candida. I gave a lot of metro (because crop was blocked with food and I hoped larger amount would mea some drug may reach the proventriculus) and noticed again the eye becoming witish.

The two bird in discussion were not scratching their eyes. One of them yawns somwetimes, as he tries to get rid of some discomforting condition in his mouth or throat.


Btw, now I have another rescue, a pigeon with severe coccidiosis and wet canker, as well as strong candida infection (white formations in mouth). The droppings yesterday were still solid, now are water of chalky-light green shade. I know from other cases that this is advanced wet canker. I gave him Fluconazole around 5 PM yesterday and Amprolium in the evening, as well as Coccistop (Sulfaquinoxaline) because there was a very strong smell of coccidiosis, that now is mostly gone. How many hours do you think I should leave before starting the canker treatment and what dosage I should use? Her situation worsens and I have to act quickly. She weights 170 gr.
 
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