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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hi Pidgey,


It dawned on me after my last Post...


That what might be happening, was that pressure of the Antiseptic Solution, being Squeeze-Bottle'd into the fistula aperature snugly...was causing a fluid pressure against any internal Organs in there, including her Colon and Ureter...where, the contens of both could be pushed into her Vent...to exit there, along with the Solution entering a perforated Uterus, to also exit out the Vent.

This was a very low pressure of course, but...seems to me that 'that' could be what was happening.


Poops and urates were 'fresh' and normal looking...nothing old or dried...and not a lot of them, just some.



Phil
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Well...the opening is so healed up now, it was very difficult getting any antiseptic 'flush' in...so, I fussed with it enough to do so...but the diameter of the opening now is very small...maybe 1/16th of an inch...so, this might have been the last flush-procedure before it closes completely.


She was all Wiggle-Worm for Pill-Time, all wanting to be flying and socializing...but then was wonderfully co-operative for the protracted Butt-Bath and flushing...


Anyway...


Time for all good little Beaks to hit-the-Hay here I think...


Phil
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When I get a bird with oviduct problems, I put them in the loft after all the visible healing is done and give them a few months to see if they return to normal or end up with abdominal problems. ****** was a complete success after over four weeks of antibiotics, the most effective one being the Trimethoprim/Sulfa combo. She continued inhouse recovery until she'd gained her weight back and was fit as a fiddle. Then, she spent over six months in the loft before I returned her to the wild where she has continued to show up to this day. Apparently, her illness left her unable to make any eggs (and she tried in the loft for months) so I felt that she'd be okay out there.

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Hi Pidgey,




I was not expecting the fistula to heal so fast...or I would have been 'flushing' more often.


I hope we/I got out all there was in there of old debris.


Yes...I will figure to have here here for a while, definitely...to try and make sure things are alright.


She's a little bored with the Cage already...but she's got a little ways to go before free-fly in here...


Thanks..!


Phil
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If a hole is clean and looks like the inside of your mouth (only redder) but without the epithelium, then it'll close like nobody's business--you just can't believe how fast they can heal. In cats, you can actually get a serious problem because their skin can close faster than the tissues underneath can heal--then you get an abscess. That's probably not going to happen here due to the nature of the plumbing, but if there's a hole in the oviduct that doesn't heal, it can spell real trouble down the road.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Hi Pidgey,




Looks very healthy...skin is lagging behind...has a scab, which I soaked then losened in order to have access to the remaining aperature.


Poops are still a little 'off'...might be the meds...so we shall see...pale-green poop-matter...white urates but of a syrupy consistancy instead of being a 'paste'... sodden poops...not free standing when made, 'slumping' sort of...where the poop-pile next to her perching Rock is more like a low mound of pale green with white overcooked 'Oat Meal'...no 'Raisins'...


I am thinking to start her on 'Medistatin' and see if that helps...then, pro-biotics once done with the Enroflaxin.

Meant to provide ACV-Water but forgot ( 'duh' ) ...will start now...


How long would you think I should continue the various meds?


I know you mentioned what you had done with yours...but, being as this one is a little different...


'Enroflaxyn'...

'Metronidazole'

'Divet'


Are what I have been giving her.



What's your thinking on how long to continue each?


Thanks..!


Phil
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I used to always start them on the Enrofloxacin/Metronidazole combo for ~10 days. When that didn't work with the ones with masses in their oviducts, I'd tried the Trimethoprim/Sulfa combo and would usually start seeing results in a week, but I'd continue for as long as it took for all the garbage to feel as though it were finally ejected (no more palpable masses) and the bird was putting on weight & attitude.

This one of yours isn't in quite the same league and we don't know what did it, whether a puncture (wound) or she just rotted out the side. 'Tis a mystery. If the hole is healing up faster than you can say "Jack Robinson", then it's a fair bet that there's no severe inflammatory response in the area and whatever infection there is must be on the run. That said, I'd probably not continue meds after 10 days if at that time you don't see any reason to keep giving them (symptoms).

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Thanks Pidgey...



Definitely she had an odd situation.


In review...an appearent fistula had formed a little ways above and to the side of her Vent, and was partially clogged with Egg Shell debris, which debris was small broken pieces of well formed hard Egg Shell and a little bit of tan,fairly dessicated granular Yolk-material.


Her general Vent area and it's Feathers were externally saturated with presuably old, dried 'Glue-Like' Albumen, which was bad smelling...with seemingly no traces of Albumen remaining in her interior area.


Upon exploring the fistula, which had an elastic ability to enlarge if mechanically widened via Q-Tip and Clamp...the remains of what the Vet and I felt to represent ost of two whole Eggs were removed using the Q-Tip and Clamp, with some Shell Fragments being about 2/3rds the size of a Dime...and quite a bit of dessicated tan, 'grainy' or granular Yolk-material.

The debris had no noticable odor, and was only slightly damp.


No sign of infection was seen in the internal area...fistula sides appeared overall healthy if tender from being stretched...and did not appear 'thin' or enflamed as if eroded by infection, rather, it was just a tidy 'hole' even as a Bullet wound might be in it's way...but as there was no Blood but for a few tiny clots in or reoved or flushed from the inside area, and no hints of any Feather debris, the prospect of this situation being incidental to a Pellet Gun or similar Shot-Wound seemed unlikely.


I had wondered if this could represent the sort of punture which a large Dog's Eye Tooth could do...and of course that is a possibility.


In fact, more than opne half of her Tail is about 1/2 an inch shorter than the other less-than-half...suggesting she had escaped some predation situation, however long ago it would be, for new Tail Feathers to now be almost full-length.


So...maybe that was it...if caught and Bit by a large Dog, an Eye Tooth may have not only punctured her Abdomen, but, also punctured her Uterus/Shell-Gland, while crushing generally, the Two Eggs in their one however-far-behind-the-other they were, where possibly one was indeed just about to be lain.

..and whatever other punctures or injurys as may have occurred, had long since lost their scabs and healed, leaving no trace now.


A presumed still-existing hole of her Uterus or 'Shell Gland' was later suspected when poops and urates exited her Vent along with Antiseptic Solution adminstered into the fistula for flushing out the internal area...which Soultion I am guessing was entering her Uterus/Shell-Gland, while Pressure of the solution againsther Colon and Uretor, encourage their releasing some contents.


Of course, the Eggs whose remains were removed, had to have gotten to the very last stage of their formation, to posess the well formed hard Shells the fragments represented.



How far apart physically, in the Shell-Gland, two successive Eggs would normally be, I do not know...so if anyone else does know, please tell me?


She is keenly watching me as I write this...



Phil
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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Well..."Update"...


She's been doing very well...


But, most of her Priaries fell out over the last few days...


These Feathers are perfect...but...fell out...so now she is down to 'two' Priaries on each Wing...


Set her into the Free-Fly zone...on the floor, and she tried to take off, but can not do it with two-primaries-per-Wing.



I have never seen this happen before, where a Pigeon loses their Primaries.


Any ideas what's up???



Lost a few Tail Feathers also...


Is this that 'Molting' thing everyone talks about?


She's fine otherwise...eats well...poops-and-urates look 'good'...demeanor
'good'...Eyes 'bright'...GOOD weight...'strong'...



What the heck is going on with these Feathers falling out?



Phil
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Sounds like molting to me, Phil. Squeaks and Dom lose them too. I am getting a nice collection of lovely feathers!

Hopefully, there is nothing wrong...

Wishing her well!

Love and Hugs

Shi
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I've been handing the dis-used Feathers to various Nesting Hens...who are very happy to have them...


It's so cute...


Phil
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I've been handing the dis-used Feathers to various Nesting Hens...who are very happy to have them...


It's so cute...


Phil
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I know EXACTLY what you mean! Cindy (AZWhitefeather) has a fun time giving Dolly and Dumpling feathers! Dolly is particulary insistent on following her around to collect feathers!! Too funny!

Ole Squeaks gets his thin pieces of shredded paper. I did buy the nesting material that Nab uses, but he will only use those if mixed with his "usual" and "familiar" paper! :rolleyes:

Love and Hugs

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I know EXACTLY what you mean!

Cindy (AZWhitefeather) has a fun time giving Dolly and Dumpling feathers! Dolly is particulary insistent on following her around to collect feathers!! Too funny!
Yep, I'd say Dolly definitely has a feather fetish. :p :p

Actually, Dumpling could care less about gathering the feathers.
HOWEVER, she sure enjoys sitting on them. :p

I was able to get this picture when she got out of the basket for a minute.
Most of the white feathers are on the bottom. The colorful ones are compliments of Beautiful.

 

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Beautiful picture, as always, Cindy!!

Now, THAT is what I call a true "FEATHERING OF ONE'S NEST!" :p ;) :D

Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Well...she's been in free-fly free-roam here for a while now.


I just noticed, she's sitting on an Egg...maybe two...in a Nest...so...


I guess things had by-golly healed-up alright.


Wow...


I'd feared to release her, feeling uncertain how her Egg-making would be.


I did not want to bother her to check on if there was one Egg or two...but I will keep my Eyes peeled for when she and her mate change shifts.



I'm amazed..!!



Phil
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That's just WONDERFUL, Phil!! :D

So glad she has a mate!!

BTW, is Persephone still roaming around? How is she doing?

Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi and the gang
 
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