Pigeon-Talk banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last night my boyfriend found a turtleneck dove - minus lots of feathers on our door step. He decided to keep it in a darkened box until i came home from work - and then we gave it some lukewarm water - and heat (hot water bottle wrapped in lots of towels)

I have taken the poor thing to a vet, and gotten it some antibiotics. The antibiotics recommended (by phone to an avian vet to my vet) were clavulox (amoxycillin with clavulic acid) . the dove weighs 150 gms. i have given the first dose of 0.24 mls

i was recommended to instead use baytril by another avian vet - unfortunately they would not prescribe the medication without seeing the bird, and i couldn't get to that clinic before they closed.

The bird is pooping, is fluffing out its feathers, drinking (only when offered water), we are slowly increasing the amount of defrosted corn/peas we are giving it.

I have cleaned both of its wounds with normal saline - it appears to possibly have a puncture wound to the back (couldn't find the source of dried blood) and a very large wound underneath its body approximately at the level of the base of keel and the patella. I have flushed this partially with normal saline, and then removed dried blood with sterile gauze. the wound length is approximately 5-8 cms long. I didn't get a good look at the bottom of the wound though.


My questions are:
- does the antibiotic it is on provide adequate cover, and would it appear to be a good dose? (it is an oral formulation)
- should i be using an additional antibiotic
- what else to do with the wound
- any other advice?

thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
Hi Kams,


Small whole Seeds, as for Parakeets or Canaries and the like, would be good to offer in addition to the defrosted Corn and Peas.


The low wound...can you post some images?


What did the Vet pronounce regarding it?


A systemic Oral Antibiotic, either Baytril/Cipro/Enroflaxyn ( all in effect the same), or, Clavamox, is good for occasions of a Bird having escaped a predation scenario...so, good that is begun.


How the wound should be treated will depend on the wound...as for whether Sutures would be prefered, or, as may be.


It is difficult to locate small punctures or other small wounds on Birds...they have so many dense Feathers to try and part, to be able to see...and can be difficult to feel even, but, those small injuries which are mere abrasions or small tears can be easily dabbed with any Topical antibiotic Creme or Ointment.

Punctures, ideally, if identified as such, are best to be sluiced out from their bottom, with a fine blunt tipped syringe-fitting or thin angle-cut-end catheter section, using tepid Saline, followed by any handy Oral Antibiotic dissolved in tepid Saline...where, the punctures may then be gently dabbed with any Antibiotic ointment or Creme thereafter.

Silvasulfadiazine is a favorite, if your Vet or Pharmacist/Chemist can provide, and, over here, usually, it requires a perscription.

'Neosporin' or kindred 'Triple-Antibiotic' Topical Ointments are non-perscription here, and, likely where you are also, and they are just fine also.


Warmth, quiet, a draped Cage which may feel like a safe and private condition for the Dove, and a minimum of stimulous/sounds/people-activity within view and earshot...are good in these occasions.

I do not know how to evaluate the Antibiotic dose without knowing the concentration of the solution.



Phil
Lv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,336 Posts
The amoxycillin/ clavulanic acid combinations is said to be the best antibiotic for cat caught birds, prompt treatment should stop them developing pasteurella septicemia or pasteurellosis

The dose is up to 50 mgs per kilo twice a day if given by injection or up to 125mgs per kilo three times a day (three times daily) orally- up to 3 weeks. Dose and dosing interval determined by infection site, severity and organism involved.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=136111&postcount=1

Flushing with sterile saline and debriding once a day should help the wound heal from the inside.

I keep the wound moist by smearinf a colloidal gel over it, the one I use is called Intrasite Gel.

Cynthia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
firstly, thank you both for your prompt responses. I work in a hospitaland should be able to get a script tomorrow afternoon for the silvazine. i figured if that one is better i will get it - i know it works wonders on burns.

i have given 'midget' (as he was named, in order to be seen by a vet) - lots of canary seed in a container that is within beaks reach - so is a deep tub of water. I have seen him touch neither, but when water is offered he drinks deeply. i will continue with the peas and corn and have the canary seed available.

I am somewhat optimistic because today he seems out of shock - he is starting to be startled and alarmed at intrusions into his 'personal space' around him - and is trying to fly away from us.

As to what the vet pronounced - she was not an avian specialist and got me to hold the bird the whole time - she said that she couldn't really comment on its severity. if it survives until monday (when I work a pm, rather than an AM shift), i will take it to a avian specialist. for proper assessment of the wound.

i will also get some intrasite gel, that should hopefully be available at the hospital pharmacy. thank you for your advice re irrigation of the puncture wound, pdpbison, and cynthia for the recommendation of intrasite.

as for the dosage, i am not sure if it is correct then - they have prescribed .24 of a ml when the strength is 50 mg /ml. the bird weight is 150 grms. to me that seems slightly low - per dose that works out approximately to 12.5 mg - should be more like 17-18 mg? if you guys reckon the dose should be a tad higher, let me know! its a pretty big wound

i will try and drag the bf away from the football to take some photos for me :) i have to clean the big wound again before bed anyway.

i have found all of your advice very specific and helpful, thank you very much

susie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
after looking properly at the wound to try and take a photo, i must say i am a little freaked out, the large wound at the under junction of keel and leg goes up and backwards - we can see what the bird equivalent of a peritoneal sac moving with every breath. that said, i still gave it a ns flush. hope that was the right move - none of the organs were visible.

if this bird is still alive, does it really have a chance? it is digesting.... and pooping..and drinking..and eating..the wound is just so bad.

i will try and upload a photo once i figure out how to bluetooth it - i couldnt get a very good photo.

they all turned out dark!

suz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,336 Posts
Yes, it stands a good chance, we have had a lot of cases where a bird has survived terrible injuries. Personally, I believe that if a bird wants to live it should be given that chance and this bird has shown no sign of giving up..however, I think that perhaps you should hold back on the flushing now...just in case....I will also e-mao Pidgey to have a look at this thread.


This is a link to a thread about a pigeon that came very close to being euthanased...she is still alive and well!

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=19312&postcount=1


Cynthia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,522 Posts
Yes, they can certainly survive some pretty ugly wounds, like Pierpont here (thread contains pictures):

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512

With doves, you kinda' need to protect them from their own nervousness. Phil always pads the tops of their cages with foam for when they fly up in a panic, which is a great idea because they WILL do it.

By the way, could you post some pictures of the wound?

Pidgey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
lets see if this attachment works. ahah it did. the big red thing at the bottom left is a thumb. you can see an internal damaged membrane stretched across the middle of the wound (i dont want to take any more pictures as due to the wounds location near its leg it could do itself more damage if we fiddle with it too much). it somehow looks smaller in the picture but is actually approximately 8 cm wide when fully open. and im guessing about 4-5 cm deep
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
Hi kams,



Pictures of the Dove's face and profile also?


This may even be a fledgling who while having figured out how to drink, may not have figured out how to eat/peck yet, and, was still being fed by her parents.


Keep everything just lightly moist with the wound and it's edges, with the Silvasulfadiazine...by Monday, the lips or edges of the skin will have changed and thickened and it may be much harder to Suture, if the Avian Vet finds Suturing appropriate.


I can not say from the images, what a correct address would be far as Suturing or if merely sluice/clean and fold together as best one can and tape roughly lined up and closed by a sanitary wrap going around the Body...either can work well, and, it depends on details.

Dosage seemed low to my fast math attempt also.


Often, these meds are fairly forgiving dose wise, but, of course it is best to try and be correct with it.


Any 'yellow' tints to the Urates?



Phil
Lv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
just a quick update with the dove...it is still alive and kicking! upped the antibiotic dose slightly, and did some rather extensive wound flushing and packing with intrasite - on the basis that given it will have to wait until tuesday, it needs something to provide a moist wound environment (in case sutures dont pan out) i also brought the silver sulfazine cream - is it best to be sparing, or lather it on?

the dove became quite freaked out when we packed the wound with intrasite - started closing its eyes, which i figured was shock. seems fine now though

poos - the poo color has changed. from a mud brown, with yellow, to a dark green (??) with lots of plain white urates. The poos are quite large (pigeon size!) but the green part seems well digested. the crop is going down daily in the morning. the bird is still not (that I see) eating and drinking on its own - but will drink water if offered.

i am actually feeling quite positive at the moment - overall it has improved from when we first had it -will wrap a towel around the lid tomorrow in case it starts to get frisky.

fingers crossed, (now the intrasite gel business is one)

one last question - how often must we feed it? we have been feeding it 3 times per day with increasing amounts per feed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks to the link of the bird you treated pidgey. that makes me feel a bit more reassured having checked out those pictures. i think the shot wound that the bird had is very similar to that of my dove.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
Hi Kamz,



Yes...a thin cloth draped over a Box or Bin or other, soft Towel on the inside Bottom, makes a good set-up for a convelescent Dove.

If a Cardboard Box, cut a few small holes in the sides at their Eye level, so they can see out, while feeling no one can see in.


Once feeling a little better, they can and will launch 'up' like-a-Rocket, and any 'hard' lid or top can see them knock themselves out cold, or break their neck.


Glad to hear the Urates are now 'white'.

'Yellow' indicates infection byproducts being processed.

30-40 poops-a-day ( ie 24 hours) tells us a Dove or Pigeon is eating ( or being fed ) enough. If poops are big, then fewer is just as good as more when smaller, of course.


This may well be a recent fledgling ( they will look about like adults ) who had not yet learned to eat on their own, and was still being fed by mom and dad.


If you can get the little one to 'Nuzzle' ( see my recent mentions to 'rackerman' - Post # 8 - which describes getting them to 'gobble' small whole Seeds from a Shot Glass...) then they can soon progress onto Pecking and self feeding.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/hard-time-hand-feeding-the-babies-44257.html

Young Doves will do this just as well as young Pigeons, if possibly prefering the smallest kinds of whole Seeds, such as Canary or Finch or Parakeet Seed mixes since their little Beaks are so much smaller than a same age Pigeon ).


Good luck!


Water should be tepid for them to drink at this age...then can be merely room temperature once they have shown they are drinking on their own for a few days, a willingness to drink when tepid Water is offered.



Phil
Lv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
good news..the little one started eating canary seed on its own last night. hasnt repeated that this morning, but is still reacting more (in fear) to us humans, which i see as a good thing.

antibiotics continued, poos looking good (but stringy white urates)

i'm popping up more photos (hopefully better contrast)

you can see that it is missing all its tail feathers, and part of the wing feathers, from whatever attacked it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
Hi kamz,


Metronidazole might be a good idea...concurrent with the Antibiotic.


Might clear up the 'stringy' Urates...( which is to say, might clear up what is causing them ).


Phil
Lv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
thank you phil. I will ask the vet about the metronidazole tomorrow - i am taking the little one (which is now sometimes eating canary seed all on its ownsome!) into the avian vet tomorrow.

Am a little bit nervous, as i am technically asking him to suture up a bird i intend on returning to the wild. In australia, all feral birds are required to be put down by vets if brought to a veterinary center.

The bird seems perkier, and is even more resistant (and mobile) than before. I think that must be a sign that the antibiotics and silver sulfazine are working well.

thanks for all your help phil,


Susie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,336 Posts
Do you have to tell the vet it is a wild bird? We (forum members) tell vets our feral rescues are pet birds....I found this adverts when I did a search for "turtleneck dove" and vets:

Lost TurtleNeck Dove with blue ID band on leg. Much loved family pet. ... if found or seen please ring me or take to local vet. Under Vet care, .. ...
brisbane.gumtree.com.au/f-offered-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZofferedQQPageZ7
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
mm......i think the vet will know it is not a pet as he is aware that i only have one bird :/ bringing a turtleneck dove in i can pretend i am intending on keeping it..i think i will let his reaction guide mine... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,336 Posts
Good luck!:)
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top