[mat6-26]

Ive got a huge feral flock, some unfortunately get sick or poisoned ones from time to time, they come to my yard and I do my best to help them. Ive got a few right now, but for this post--this one has wounds that I cant figure out. I hope someone here can help me.
Backstory, Yesterday morning I saw her laying flat on tummy outside, sort of scooting toward bushes, R leg dragging backward. I picked her up, she tried to scoot away but couldnt bc she cant seem to bear weight/walk or fly. At first I thought broken or dislocated leg, she winced in pain when I moved it to splint it.
She has the thickest fluffy plumage, so I didnt initially see injury, until I started feeling dried clumps so I started looking underneath. I saw raw injured flesh, some dried blood, didnt see gaping wound or blood flowing but what type of injury is unclear. I see a lot of what appear to be pin feathers. Im thinking now maybe leg isnt broke but it hurts to raise it up bc of whatever injury is right above that right leg.

Im attaching pics, they can be hard to tell but this is what I see--definite wound on right side, above R leg, under R wing. What appear to be many pin feathers, but could also be broken feathers from an injury she may have escaped from.

On both wings, top/back of wing and underneath, what appears to be many pin feathers and raw red skin. I cleaned her with bactine and put a a lot of neosporin then covered her with bandage, tried to splint leg somewhat. Today was day 2, in morning she was dirty, a lot of poop stuck in bandage. I had to shower her, she was a matted mess, used dawn soap and shower head to get a ton of poop and matted gunk off. After that let her soak in bath for a few min, then wrapped her in towel. This is when I saw what seemed to be pin feathers all over wings, under wing and flesh/skin that looked very irritated.

So we blow dried her on low to get her dry. I looked under wing for the definite wound, it was swollen looking and many pin feathers poking out. Also blood was on her inner right wing, assume from this injury under wing. So I poured a lot of bactine on that area, put a glob of silver gel for wounds. and left her to sleep.

-She only wants to lay flat, also right leg still stretched out behind her.
-I gave her about 40mg amoxicillin today, one dose so far
-She drinks and eats fairly well
-She grunts but lets me hold her and falls asleep
-She sleeps most of the time but awakens easy

Does anyone have any ideas as to what happened? Do you think there was an injury or is it a major pin feather problem? Any advice welcome
Also interesting is I dont recognize her! She is not one that I remember seeing I would remember bc she looks part pouter with a big air bubble crop and tiny short beak, so idk where she came from.

Im clueless and want to help her, shes so sweet I want her to do well. I dont really have ability to take her to vet, and there is one rescue only here that is packed but they might see her, Im trying.

I have 4 more pigeons here right now with other issues, one I will prob post about. Any help, please. I want to help this little one. Thanks

 

[mat6-26]

I want to add in case its relevant that she has incredible plumage, fluffiest pigeon Ive ever seen personally. So idk if she has a type of feather that is problematic for pins or mutations or any feather related disorder--if there is such a thing?
But thought its worth saying that she is absolutely different from the like 70 rock doves that hang out here of various patterns and plumage. She is all puff and fluff. And beautiful! I so want her to be ok.

Thanks anyone that offers advice, sorry so long

 

[Marina B]

One can't say for sure what caused all these injuries. Sounds like old wounds (feathers started growing again) and fresh wounds. She might be a domesticated pigeon.

The dosage amoxy is fine, give twice a day for 7 to 10 days. Also add probiotics to her water/seeds. You can leave the wounds uncovered, no need for a bandage. She will peck at them as they heal.

Please don't leave her at the rescue centre. Rather care for her at home.

You can do this to get her more comfortable.

 

[mat6-26]

One can't say for sure what caused all these injuries. Sounds like old wounds (feathers started growing again) and fresh wounds. She might be a domesticated pigeon.

The dosage amoxy is fine, give twice a day for 7 to 10 days. Also add probiotics to her water/seeds. You can leave the wounds uncovered, no need for a bandage. She will peck at them as they heal.

Please don't leave her at the rescue centre. Rather care for her at home.

You can do this to get her more comfortable. View attachment 101869

Do these look like abnormal amount of pin feathers and how long does something like that take to resolve? idk if you can see clear enough but her beak is so very short--is it possible she cant preen well?

What do you think about her R leg--keeping it laying behind, hurts her to bring it up in normal bend, and she cant bear weight.

Also should I put medicine like bactine and neosporin on her daily? What signs am I looking for that she is in danger of not healing/recovering or getting worse?

Copy on the donut, will do that. Thanks

 

[Marina B]

Her beak looks fine for grooming. Pinfeathers coming in over a wound might be because it's an old wound (I think). Just keep the wounds moist and don't let it dry out.

Put your finger inbetween the toes of the leg laying behind. If she does not grip your finger, then the leg is broken. Only an x-ray will reveal exactly where the break is.

She will be fine as long as she is eating. Must be in a lot of pain, poor thing.

You can also try this to take weight of her legs. But if she struggles too much, rather take her out. Let the toes touch the ground and also make sure her cloaca is not covered so she can poop. Put her food and water dishes within reach.

 

[mat6-26]

Her beak looks fine for grooming. Pinfeathers coming in over a wound might be because it's an old wound (I think). Just keep the wounds moist and don't let it dry out.

Put your finger inbetween the toes of the leg laying behind. If she does not grip your finger, then the leg is broken. Only an x-ray will reveal exactly where the break is.

She will be fine as long as she is eating. Must be in a lot of pain, poor thing.

You can also try this to take weight of her legs. But if she struggles too much, rather take her out. Let the toes touch the ground and also make sure her cloaca is not covered so she can poop. Put her food and water dishes within reach. View attachment 101870

Thank you Marina.
She didnt grip, and leg does feel very limp. I splinted it somewhat, she looked fairly comfortable with it (as much as she prob can be). I will try a sling later like the pic.
I was thinking about how weve never seen her and she is very comfortable with hands holding her. She looks like one that showed up early this year, who was banded. Same look, short beak, air bubble chest--similar markings. He wasnt injured, just seemed to like the feral life better and he still comes daily for food. With that one (Smokey) I called and texted the owners, they never responded.
Just realized I bet she was injured and from that same loft--and they maybe removed bands knowing theres a chance she'd go to same place (me where theres a huge feral flock) and they'd get contacted. There is no way this girl is feral, she is so relaxed when we hold her. As many ferals as Ive had injured/sick, they all have a feisty side to some degree that is cautious to skittish, util theyve been handled a lot and know me. No way this one is feral.

Very sad. Im not letting her go, ever. Shes a doll, I pray she survives. So far still eating drinking, giving the amox and vitamins, keepig wounds clean and protected with neosporin and silver gel. Looking closer at wounds today it appears its is her whole upper leg and inner body on R side that looks wounded, upper leg/thigh has definite died blood, that must be what got blood stain on inner wing. And the inner thigh attached to body area also looks wounded. All have the pin feathers. Looks so painful, also is there anything I can give her for pain? I did give a minuscule amount of benadryl on day one that helped her rest well. Can she have a tiny amount of baby tylenol?

 

[Marina B]

I can't advice reg the tylenol. I believe metacam is used for pain relieve in birds, but I think only a vet can subscribe this.

 

[mat6-26]

I can't advice reg the tylenol. I believe metacam is used for pain relieve in birds, but I think only a vet can subscribe this.

Marina here are pics of wounded pigeon today, they look awful bc she is wet from bath. As I was drying I took pics and bc the wounds are much better, I could move her more to see more. I am hoping you or anyone can recognize what is going on with the feathers. In a couple pics when you zoom in, there is blood at the root, may be blood feathers?

She is much better, despite how bad the pics look, she is energetic, eats well, perfect droppings, very consistent. But the feathers and flesh looks strange. Also there's been a lot of neosporin applied daily so the shiny greasy look from that.

Overall, there is a lot of flesh that is visible on the one side, and apparent missing feathers on upper R thigh. There is a small flesh colored bump that could be anatomy and I am not skilled to recognize what--its on lower back, top of tail.

Yellowish areas where I think the bad wounds are healing. I took pics when wet so I can post pics showing the flesh and feather strange look, but of course it looks worse when wet but hopefully its recognizable to someone.

Again, she is doing wonderful, other than feather problem. Is it a feather disorder/disease? bad moulting? from injury? Anyone please lmk if you have idea

 

[Marina B]

She might have a vitamin and calcium deficiency. Are you adding some to her food/water?

I'm glad she is doing well. The keelbone looks very prominent. Can you weigh her regularly to see if she is gaining weight?

 

[mat6-26]

She might have a vitamin and calcium deficiency. Are you adding some to her food/water?

I'm glad she is doing well. The keelbone looks very prominent. Can you weigh her regularly to see if she is gaining weight?

Her keel bone is prominent, granted its a bit more showing bc she is wet and it seems the feathers may be thin there too but its still somewhat prominent. I may still have my baby scale, if so I will try it. She eats well and I will go get pic of droppings, they look very good so that should be a good sign?

Im giving her vitamin drops in water. Also a moulting supplemental food added to her food. I also started the acv every other day. I also started adding grit with calcium to food.

In the first pic, can you zoom in, see the dark what appears to be blood at root tip of feathers--are these blood feathers? Or possibly from injury--which again, is anyones guess. We are clueless as to what happened.

In second pic, can you zoom in and see the underside wing wounds, they look almost like scar tissue, but I could be wrong.

I believe she is from a loft, maybe was a racer that the owners were displeased with and let go--she is used to hands, and not from our feral flock. the reason I mention this is I wonder if she was found to have feather issue or serious injury--which unfortunately some without moral/ethics would see that as too much trouble.

Third request, would you look at 6th pic, also last one--small flesh colored bump--at what Id describe as tail bone/base area--am I looking at something normal anatomy wise? It was prominent.

I appreciate your responses! Thanks

 

[mat6-26]

She might have a vitamin and calcium deficiency. Are you adding some to her food/water?

I'm glad she is doing well. The keelbone looks very prominent. Can you weigh her regularly to see if she is gaining weight?

Marina here are a cpl more pics that may help--her left side, the uninjured side, does seem normal. Now obviously R wounded side has neosporin making feathers stick together and show flesh more, but still, the left side looks fine and has from beginning.
This makes me think more she escaped a predator, we have seen a peregrine and those awful coopers come around occasionally.
Looking at the inner wing wounds, and her injury site being inner wing and upper leg, which is also presumed broken (like you said, I tested and no grip ability, tho it may be a tiny bit better), picturing talons and the way they grab them, apparent scar marks and other wounds may fit that. What do you think? Im wondering if a deficiency or feather disease would affect entire body? So being one area indicates trauma?

 

[Marina B]

The bump at the base of the tail is normal, that is the oil gland. Who knows how long she has been out there and what she went through. She probably returned to the loft injured, and was released again before ending up with you. So has old wounds and more recent wounds.

I guess it will take time for the feathers to show improvement.

 

[mat6-26]

The bump at the base of the tail is normal, that is the oil gland. Who knows how long she has been out there and what she went through. She probably returned to the loft injured, and was released again before ending up with you. So has old wounds and more recent wounds.

I guess it will take time for the feathers to show improvement.

Thanks for the replies. Also I think, maybe her keel bone looks prominent bc she lost feathers on the one side so the flesh shows? Here are some pics to show how her face looks, which is much brighter and alert, getting frisky now. So surely this is a good sign.

 

[mat6-26]

Also do you think Im treating the wounds right? Im keeping them so moist, thats why she looks greasy.


Anyone with any ideas / suggestions? I do think it was an attack/ trauma injury and the flesh and feathers were ripped by probably talons. I just dont know when or where or literally any details at all except she pretty much spawned on the narrow strip of my pool, somehow made it around pool when she could only belly shuffle no walk no fly and I found her there. Very lethargic and covered in wet droppings.
This has been frustrating and why I keep posting, hoping someone will recognize the type of wounds by their own experience. As I have no ideas or clues as to what happened.

 

[Marina B]

She is looking good. Maybe she was dropped by a hawk.

 

[Doves Witness]

Anyone with any ideas / suggestions?

​

^ For comparison, the image above is of an emaciated young feral fledgling pigeon. The keel bone should not be visible as distinct from the breast muscles on both sides. That bird was literally starving.

What are you feeding your bird? She would like some raw, unsalted, out-of-the-shell sunflower kernels or bits of roasted but not salted peanuts. If you aren't giving a vitamin supplement, also feed her crumbled hard-boiled egg yolks and seeds such as dry peas, lentils, rice, wheat, barley, and oats. If she is eating on her own, let her eat as much as she likes.

^ For comparison, an adult feral pigeon with white operculum

Adult feral pigeons (Columba Livia) normally have a white colored operculum. Your bird's operculum is off-color and she's been with you for a week or so, which suggests that it isn't just dirty but rather is a sign of illness such as a fungal or yeast infection.

Some pathogens including viruses can survive and reproduce in some types of oil. In your photos I see two places (or they may be the same spot) which appear to be wounds which are producing yellow-ish pus, which is an indication of the bird's immune system fighting infection at those sites. For that reason especially, I'd bathe the oil away completely and not reapply it or anything else if those wounds appear to be healing. The yellow-ish stuff should then form darker dry scabs and new skin will form. The rest of the pink to red areas in the photos look like normal skin.

 

[mat6-26]

View attachment 102030 ​

^ For comparison, the image above is of an emaciated young feral fledgling pigeon. The keel bone should not be visible as distinct from the breast muscles on both sides. That bird was literally starving.

What are you feeding your bird? She would like some raw, unsalted, out-of-the-shell sunflower kernels or bits of roasted but not salted peanuts. If you aren't giving a vitamin supplement, also feed her crumbled hard-boiled egg yolks and seeds such as dry peas, lentils, rice, wheat, barley, and oats. If she is eating on her own, let her eat as much as she likes.

View attachment 102031​

^ For comparison, an adult feral pigeon with white operculum

Adult feral pigeons (Columba Livia) normally have a white colored operculum. Your bird's operculum is off-color and she's been with you for a week or so, which suggests that it isn't just dirty but rather is a sign of illness such as a fungal or yeast infection.

View attachment 102032 View attachment 102033​

Some pathogens including viruses can survive and reproduce in some types of oil. In your photos I see two places (or they may be the same spot) which appear to be wounds which are producing yellow-ish pus, which is an indication of the bird's immune system fighting infection at those sites. For that reason especially, I'd bathe the oil away completely and not reapply it or anything else if those wounds appear to be healing. The yellow-ish stuff should then form darker dry scabs and new skin will form. The rest of the pink to red areas in the photos look like normal skin.

Thanks for the reply.

Im very glad you mentioned the yellow area. Yes, bth pics same area but I was concerned as it is definitely in this upper thigh area. Should I used H2O2 to wash this yellowed, possibly pus area? I also have iodine and hibclens. I agree I think it may be pus as well.
I will wash Josie again, I was focused on keeping it moist, using neosporin which is like a petroleum base. I also tho included silver gel, which is excellent for attacking pathogens, has no oil. I also have hydrogels which are water based and used for the worst of injuries. I may try that and no neosporin at all.

Her keel bone is prominent mostly bc the feathers on R side are partly gone there, her droppings are wonderful and she eats well. Im giving her a mixed seed that has sunflower and peanut in it. So Im not too worried there, thankfully, and she feels fine to hold her. Im also adding a moulting supplement with her seeds, and some grit sprinkles.

The cere is off white, the day we got her it was covered in dark brown idk what. I had to scrub a bit lightly but did need to rub it to get it off. Its remained this off white color since. The thing is, bc we are clueless still where she came from, what her trauma was, how long ago, etc--it makes some things a mystery. If I go by 1)her droppings 2) her energy level 3) eyes--bright/alert or not and 4) eating/drinking--the improvement is astounding. But I want her to stay on that positive path so I will watch everything.

Tho with her I am not sure her cere is an issue, yet, bc it was covered in something dark and didnt come off easy. God only knows what she experienced and hers could even be stained temporarily. But I will say, Ive got 2 others whose cere is off white too, who did not have dark stuff on it-- so Im interested in hearing more on what to do for this--

-what other indications of fungal/or yeast?
-What do you recommend for treating that?

Please look also at her wing injuries--is this scarring? You can see a reddish/purple line and her flesh, all over that right area actually, has what looks like jagged uneven looking scarring?

 

[Doves Witness]

I would wash the bird and not apply anything else to her skin and feathers. Her immune system is already handling the wound, but the persistent pus may be an indication that it is still fighting infection at the surface where it should be forming a protective scab. If her body is still fighting infection at the surface of the wound, then the treatments that have been applied are not preventing the infection on her skin, perhaps due to antibiotic resistance. Let the area dry and scab over. If there is no more pus then her skin is healing well on its own.

Is she getting sufficient vitamin A, D, and calcium in her diet? Most seed diets don't supply enough A and D. The bird's breast muscles should stick-out slightly further than the keel bone. She looks very underweight from the photos. When the bird is viewed from the side, the keel bone should not be visible. The muscle should stand-out past the keel.

​

^ Example photos, same bird in both pictures. The first picture shows the bird after muscle loss due to starvation. The keel is more prominent than the surrounding muscle. The second picture shows the bird after returning to normal weight. The keel is within the depression at the center of the bird's breast muscles -- the keel can't be seen from the side at all.



The discolored operculum / cere is an indication of respiratory infection such as from yeast or fungus. I would feed the bird a varied diet to cover her nutritional needs, including foods that are both safe for her to eat and are also natural anti-fungals, giving her as much of them as she chooses to eat.

"Ceres
Birds produce a white powder, which covers the eye and nose ceres. They fail to produce this when sick and so the ceres become dull. In addition, with respiratory infection, they become stained with discharge. Inflammatory material that forms in the sinuses drains underneath the nose cere and then through the slot in the roof of the mouth into the back of the throat. As this material flows under the nose cere, the cere acts like a sponge, absorbing this material, which stains it various shades of brown depending on the volume of material present. Not all ‘less than white’ ceres, however, indicate a problem. Rain can wash off the white powder covering the cere, exposing the red blood below to give the cere a pink hue. Also, young hens can lose this white powder through excessive billing."

VISIBLE INDICATORS OF HEALTH IN THE HEAD AND THE THROAT |

www.melbournebirdvet.com

^ She is missing some feathers where the empty follicles are visible, but I don't see anything abnormal with the skin in the photos of her wings, other than that the feathers are oily.

^ That is an adult Nicobar pigeon rather than a feral Rock Dove, but they are cousins and I couldn't find a picture of a feral sunbathing, oddly. There is nothing wrong with the bird in the photo. It's just sunning itself and the area under the wing may look as though it is injured, but it is only because the feathers aren't laying flat. That bird is fine.

 

[mat6-26]

I would wash the bird and not apply anything else to her skin and feathers. Her immune system is already handling the wound, but the persistent pus may be an indication that it is still fighting infection at the surface where it should be forming a protective scab. If her body is still fighting infection at the surface of the wound, then the treatments that have been applied are not preventing the infection on her skin, perhaps due to antibiotic resistance. Let the area dry and scab over. If there is no more pus then her skin is healing well on its own.

Is she getting sufficient vitamin A, D, and calcium in her diet? Most seed diets don't supply enough A and D. The bird's breast muscles should stick-out slightly further than the keel bone. She looks very underweight from the photos. When the bird is viewed from the side, the keel bone should not be visible. The muscle should stand-out past the keel.

View attachment 102041
View attachment 102042 ​

^ Example photos, same bird in both pictures. The first picture shows the bird after muscle loss due to starvation. The keel is more prominent than the surrounding muscle. The second picture shows the bird after returning to normal weight. The keel is within the depression at the center of the bird's breast muscles -- the keel can't be seen from the side at all.



The discolored operculum / cere is an indication of respiratory infection such as from yeast or fungus. I would feed the bird a varied diet to cover her nutritional needs, including foods that are both safe for her to eat and are also natural anti-fungals, giving her as much of them as she chooses to eat.

"Ceres
Birds produce a white powder, which covers the eye and nose ceres. They fail to produce this when sick and so the ceres become dull. In addition, with respiratory infection, they become stained with discharge. Inflammatory material that forms in the sinuses drains underneath the nose cere and then through the slot in the roof of the mouth into the back of the throat. As this material flows under the nose cere, the cere acts like a sponge, absorbing this material, which stains it various shades of brown depending on the volume of material present. Not all ‘less than white’ ceres, however, indicate a problem. Rain can wash off the white powder covering the cere, exposing the red blood below to give the cere a pink hue. Also, young hens can lose this white powder through excessive billing."

VISIBLE INDICATORS OF HEALTH IN THE HEAD AND THE THROAT |

www.melbournebirdvet.com

View attachment 102039​

^ She is missing some feathers where the empty follicles are visible, but I don't see anything abnormal with the skin in the photos of her wings, other than that the feathers are oily.

View attachment 102040​

^ That is an adult Nicobar pigeon rather than a feral Rock Dove, but they are cousins and I couldn't find a picture of a feral sunbathing, oddly. There is nothing wrong with the bird in the photo. It's just sunning itself and the area under the wing may look as though it is injured, but it is only because the feathers aren't laying flat. That bird is fine.

Thanks for the reply. She eats pretty good with full rounded droppings, shades of brown or greenish, full with white dot / edge. Considering we have no idea what she went thru, when, how long--anything other than her showing up very wounded and weak, unable to walk or fly--Id guess she could be in the process of gaining weight. So possibly tho shes eating, droppings good, she may have been in such bad shape to begin with that its taking time is the only thing that makes sense at this point.

My focus when I found her was the wounds and her leg, which is still limp. Im doing all I can for her and shes sweet, I hope she continues to get better. Is there an antifungal med also a probiotic you suggest?

 

[Doves Witness]

Vitamin and mineral deficiencies can cause muscle weakness and lameness. In particular the B vitamins, vitamin D, calcium, and phosphorus deficiencies. If the vitamin drops that you use don't supply sufficient amounts of vitamins B2, B6, B12, and D, then she is probably not getting enough. Insufficient vitamin A slows wound healing dramatically.

I don't use any synthetic medications at all. I do use an avian probiotic for the birds, the one at the link below. I have no complaints about it, and the bacteria are definitely viable / live in the jar that I received.

Amazon.com : HealthyGut™ Avian Probiotics Dietary Supplement for Parrots, All-Natural Digestive System Formula (120 Servings) : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com : HealthyGut™ Avian Probiotics Dietary Supplement for Parrots, All-Natural Digestive System Formula (120 Servings) : Pet Supplies

www.amazon.com

Natural anti-fungals/yeasts include: raw apple cider vinegar, lime juice, or boric acid (1/4 teaspoon of any one per cup of drinking water, every other day), cloves, cinnamon, cardamom, oregano, thyme, parsley, cumin, black seed, dill, rosemary, garlic, ginger, basil, fennel, coriander, black peppercorns, yarrow, peppers such as bell/chili/pimento, chamomile, raw honey, turmeric, sesame, anise, lentils, peas. See the "natural remedies" link in the signature at the bottom of my posts for more, with links to research supporting the use of each. I don't use "essential oils" extracts, just the natural plants as either seeds, leaves/roots, or both.