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Saw this link on another list and had to share. Seriously beautiful pigeons here: http://unitedswallowclub.com/Zwonitz%20Photos/Zwonitz-Photos-Index.html
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Terry
Terry
Gorgeous Pigeons
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Wow that is a beautiful bird.
Dave
Dave
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Perfect indeed!
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I'm stunned, in seeing these beautiful birds in the site, to spot many ice pigeons with orange eyes, who have been judged "excellent" or "superior". I had thought ice pigeons, according to standars of breed perfection, should only have dark eyes. Isn't that so?
Marcos
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"In barless, porcelain, white bar and spangled: dark eyes (bull); Black barred, checkered (muffed), Forellen (clean legged checkered), have yellow to orange eyes."
That is from the standard. Personally, I prefer the bull eyes, no matter what color the feathers are.
I LOVE the spot tailed ones. I've never seen that before. Germany is lucky - they have a ton of fanciers and a lot of color projects. It appears they added Frill stencil to the mix, along with the Toy stencil that was already present (spangled and white barred birds)
That is from the standard. Personally, I prefer the bull eyes, no matter what color the feathers are.
I LOVE the spot tailed ones. I've never seen that before. Germany is lucky - they have a ton of fanciers and a lot of color projects. It appears they added Frill stencil to the mix, along with the Toy stencil that was already present (spangled and white barred birds)
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Oh yes, MaryofExeter, thank you. I did rack my brains trying to make out some of the German words -and their faulty google translation- and so I came to assume the existence of black bars and orange eyes in ice pigeons sort of come together, am I right?
So, if I happened to cross a white bar , muffed ice pigeon to a finely ice-colored damascene (black barred), I would eventually come up with ice-colored, black barred, orange eyed (assuming orange is dominat over bull) pigeon, and if I want to develop that, I should therefore work on muffs and beak length alone?
Am I right? Is it worth it? Hahahaha
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Yes, basically if they have solid bars or checks, then they have yellow/orange eyes 
If they are toy stencil (white barred, spangled) or barless, then they have black eyes. All of the varieties come in clean-legged and muffed.
They already have black barred, muffed, orange-eyed Ice pigeons, so you don't need to cross to Damascenes
Bull eyes are actually not a separate color eye. They are still genetically orange/yellow or pearl. However, the presence of certain genes can cause the color in the eye to "turn off" and appear black or very darkly colored. Recessive white and piebald birds are the most common ones that have that effect on the eyes. Since neither of those turn up in Ice Pigeons, I'm assuming it is the toy stencil that is effecting the eyes. So yes, as you breed the bars/checks to be solid black, the eyes will stay orange rather than turning black
If they are toy stencil (white barred, spangled) or barless, then they have black eyes. All of the varieties come in clean-legged and muffed.
They already have black barred, muffed, orange-eyed Ice pigeons, so you don't need to cross to Damascenes
Bull eyes are actually not a separate color eye. They are still genetically orange/yellow or pearl. However, the presence of certain genes can cause the color in the eye to "turn off" and appear black or very darkly colored. Recessive white and piebald birds are the most common ones that have that effect on the eyes. Since neither of those turn up in Ice Pigeons, I'm assuming it is the toy stencil that is effecting the eyes. So yes, as you breed the bars/checks to be solid black, the eyes will stay orange rather than turning black
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Thanks! It's very clear. The idea of crossing to Damascenes came from the fact that I live in Argentina, way down south, the southest country of all America. The only Ice pigeons we have here are barless, white barred and some (very scant) spangled, all of them muffed. The other varieties don't exist here, and the idea of importing them is quite gruesome for the long journey they should face.Yes, basically if they have solid bars or checks, then they have yellow/orange eyes
If they are toy stencil (white barred, spangled) or barless, then they have black eyes. All of the varieties come in clean-legged and muffed.
They already have black barred, muffed, orange-eyed Ice pigeons, so you don't need to cross to Damascenes
Bull eyes are actually not a separate color eye. They are still genetically orange/yellow or pearl. However, the presence of certain genes can cause the color in the eye to "turn off" and appear black or very darkly colored. Recessive white and piebald birds are the most common ones that have that effect on the eyes. Since neither of those turn up in Ice Pigeons, I'm assuming it is the toy stencil that is effecting the eyes. So yes, as you breed the bars/checks to be solid black, the eyes will stay orange rather than turning black
So you think I could get the black bar by crossing them to a Damascene, all the while keeping the ice hue?
Regards
Marcos
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That is a very nice looking bird
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Ah, I see
Yes, it should be very easy to get the black bars. All you will need to work on then are the muffs and look of the bird (shape/type wise). Both Damascenes and Ice Pigeons get their color from the same gene (Ice). Ice can vary a lot as far as the shades go. Some are almost white, some are a bit more gray looking. But all it takes is a little selective breeding for the lighter shades, if that's what you want
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Oh thank you MOExeter, I've been waiting for your answer. OK, so I'll dive into the experience as soon as I get back to Argentina.
I'm currently in France.
I already have a damascene pigeon to start off and try and get the black bar in Ice individuals.
I'll keep you all updated!
Marcos
I'm currently in France.
I already have a damascene pigeon to start off and try and get the black bar in Ice individuals.
I'll keep you all updated!
Marcos
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