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Discussion Starter #1
Just posting to say hello to everyone and introduce myself. My name is Katie (also known as "Mud" if you ask Lady Bracknell) and I am servant to something resembling a pigeon. I say "resembling" because she treats me like I am very very slow in the head. I will be feeding her and changing her papers. She KNOWS I'm feeding her. She will try to tear off a piece of my hand. She will grip a fold of skin on the back of my knuckle and SHOVE my hand away and out of her room. She wing-slaps me. She used to growl too(can you believe that? I did not know pigeons COULD growl!).
She is not afraid of me in the least. She also has no fear of my four cats and a rabbit. (all adults) She has taken to leaving her room and roosting on my pillow.
No "gifts" on my bed, oddly enough. It seems she has a couple of preferred spots for doing business.

Then she worked something out with the Boss Cat whereby she is allowed to stand in their food dish and pick up pieces of their kibble and place them under her wings. Also, she gets to bathe in their water bowl three times a week, after which I am summoned by said Boss Cat to change the water and WASH the bowl.

I don't know what Lady Bracknell had to trade for these considerations, but I just bet it had something to do with slapping and pecking.

Anyway, she knows how to cuss, but she seems to have some level of affection for me (or I've just got Stockholm syndrome).

I'm here because I am being victimized by something I outweigh by a factor of 4.

Anyone want to hear the sorry story of how we met?
 

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first I will share that cat saliva carries a bacteria called pasteurella that is toxic to small animals esp birds, most times it is when they bite the bird, but just knowing that I would not let my bird bath in a cats drinking dish or be near them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Rabbit flu is more likely to be carried by my rabbit; even so, there are some factors:

1. She has been living here for about six months....no problems yet;
2. I will not get rid of anyone already here, and no one wants a pigeon;
3. For some reason I seem to have become attached to this horrid animal;
and 4. She was feral her entire life before we met. I'm sure what with all the cats, bunnies and other birds with whom she'd come into contact that if she were susceptible to some common infectious agent like H3N3, she would already have succumbed.

Assuming she is in no immediate danger from her environment, what should I do about the wing, for instance?

She went through a time when her feet were paling and she was exhibiting pterotillomania, so I got her the special pigeon chow from Pet Smart.

Now she is healthy, fat and LOADED with attitude.
 

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spiritwings is right in that cat saliva is dangerous for a pigeon. Just a small scratch from a playful cat can kill your bird. Just not a good idea to let them anywhere together.
You can't know what an animal is thinking, nor know what they will do at any given time. Keeping the bird safe, is keeping him separate from your cats.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So here we are...

So it has been about a year since my last time here. I thought I would swing by with an update, as well as the full story of how we met.

It was just after dark on a late summer evening. I had another rescue bird at the time, a Golden Chat named Golden Chick after the restaurant down the road. I was out collecting insects from the local parking lots to feed her.
I was on my way back home with a jar full of crickets for Golden Chick when I spotted some shape near a storm grate in the parking lot which had not been there before when I'd been hunting.(trust me; when you spend an hour a day scanning a cement parking lot at night for fast little black things, your brain keeps a map of every stain, oil spot and twig on the ground)
I thought maybe it was a plastic bag or something. I approached, and it began moving towards me. Once I was ten feet away, I could tell it was a living thing. It continued approaching me, and then I saw it was a pigeon with a drooping wing.
I checked the area to see if there were chicks on the ground or something which would explain this bird's odd behavior. I could see no signs of illness, so I bent down and reached out to it. It did not move away. I took a breath, reassured myself that rabies is a mamillian affliction, and picked it up.
It did not attempt any hostile action, so I figured there might be brain damage like a concussion or some such.
I took a closer look at the drooping wing, and it was mostly detached just after the "wrist". There was only a sinewy tendon holding the end of the wing on. By the clotting and figuring the fast heart rate and high body temp, and taking into account the nature and location of the break, I concluded she was likely struck by a whip antenna from a vehicle on the road perhaps twenty minutes before, and had, in a state of shock, walked about 75 yards to where we met.

I took her home, broke out one of the cat carriers and lined it with newspaper, added a water dish and soaked a bit of bread and left it and her closed in there overnight.
I fed Golden Chick and went to sleep.

Next morning, since she was still alive, I decided to do something about that wing, as it was still dangling. I got out my low-temp LED work lights, disinfected a rolling wooden bakers' table and gathered my other equipment; a beaker half-filled with 70% Isopropyl, wire cutters, a magnification light and a vice. I used double-stick tape to adhere a couple foam blocks to the jaws of the vice. After pulling her out of the carrier, I affixed her to the vice firmly enough that she could not move, but lightly enough that I could still pull my fingers out from between her and the vice.
I raised the injured wing and examined it closely. I looked for inflammation on the body-side of the break, which might indicate gangrene or other infection. There was only minimal redness or swelling, and it was clear that with not even a peice of bone still intact, and with the scabbing already begun, there was no way to save the wingtip. So I had the wire cutters in the alcohol the whole time. I got them out, shook them dry, and quickly snipped the tendon by which the wing tip was still hanging.
She did not seem to mind that at all.
So she got out of surgery and went right back to recovery. I had her exactly three days before her disposition changed virtually overnight. She started beating me up regularly. So I removed the door to her carrier which had been separating her from four cats and a rabbit. I figured she was eager to stretch her legs and move around.
She did all of the above. Now, there is a hierarchy in animal social groups and cats are no different. We have a Boss Cat, her sister is Number Two, and my favorite, Abby, is number three. Then there is the Retard, Jojo, who is number four. (and if any of you liberal pansies give me any **** about the "retard" thing: IT'S a CAT! Dig your sense of humor out from beneath all those fluffy pink douche bags in your closet and try to use it once in a while!) The bunny and the Boss Cat have some kind of understanding whereby Birdine(the Boss Cat)has certain authorities in certain situations, but generally the bunny can disobey her.
So they have all this worked out, they are still trying to figure out what to do about Golden Chick (who can certainly fly and does so often) who is loaded with WAY more attitude than anyone who weighs 9/10ths of an ounce has any business having, and now there's this pigeon.
Lady Bracknell (after the matriarch in The Importance of Being Ernest, a play by Oscar Wilde) is a convention. I have no way of being certain that she IS a "she," and I'm not about to go mucking about with her vent. Suffice it to say, she exhibits both typically male and typically female behavior, so it's a toss-up. Besides, I really just could not care less. She is called "Lady B." and that is just that. I mean hell, I'm a male but I have a girls' name, I dress like a girl, and aside from the occasional transmission overhaul, I act kinda like a girl. So what?
Anyway; she has been a member of the family ever since. She actually plays with the cats now. But when they get out of line or unruly, she has no problem whipping them all into shape. There is this thing where her and the Boss Cat participate in the occasional demarcation dispute over allocation of authority, but aside from that everything is peachy. She has daily sun baths with the cats. She roosts right amongst them in the sun every day there is any sun.
Oh, and I figured out what the white feet were about (see earlier posts): She was dirty. That is what happens to pigeons when they have not bathed. We get smelly, they get scaly. Go figure.
Occasionally, I'll wake in the night and Lady B. will be roosting ON ME. Great. And talk about "weird"; this thing eats rocks! And not just any ol' rocks, either. No! She has to have special red rocks with vatamins and **** added. What is this? The damn rocks cost more than the food!
Oh, well. I guess I'm stuck with it. Anyone know the life expectency of pigeions?
 

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I enjoyed the read of how you met Lady Brackwell, and as far as lifespan, the last passenger pigeon, Martha, died in captivity at the ripe old age of 29! However, pigeons in the wild often only get to live 3-7 years. Of course, you do not know how old this pigeon was before she inherited you (heh), but say she is 7 now.....she may live to be 20 or so if you take care of her. You are very articulate.....are you a writer? If not, you should be. By the way, how is the wing coming along? I don't suppose Lady B. can fly or will be able to fly. What do you feed her? I give mine a "hen scratch" that I get from a feed lot. It has wheat, oats, barley, lentils such as peas and oats. I also give vitamins twice a month which I purchased from an avian vet. Please do be careful with the cats. I have a friend whose cats that never harmed or resented her pigeon before suddenly killed it. Cats, after all, are felines, they have hunting instincts. But all the best. Keep up posted (and entertained), lol
 

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Oh, and about the wing-slaps. That is common behaviour in pigeons. I have a pigeon in rehab right now that I named, (you'll like this, I know!) KUJO because he gives the most robust wing slaps I have ever gotten, scares the crap out of me, even when I am expecting it. I get this every time I enter the cage to change the water and clean the cage. Pigeons in the wild wing-slap each other ripe and regular. It's funny to watch.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Oh, man......crap!

Wow. 29 years?!?! I'm not sure I signed up for nigh-on thirty years of this torment! What did I do to deserve this? My luck, she'll live to be 47 and be a "wonder" pigeon, just to spite me.
As for the uncertainty of a pigeon amongst the cats, I have faith that whatever passes between them is 99% out of my sight, and 98% past my insight. I do feel sure that, assuming the story related to you was done so honestly and accurately, the friend's cats may have done it for reasons completely unknown to your friend. Maybe the bird was sick and asked it's friends to euthanize it, for instance. Animals have no fear of death. They do, however, feel and thus fear pain. Who knows, really? That was between the pigeon and the cats.
Concerning the wing, she uses it to beat various offenders about their heads and shoulders, so I assume it has healed well. She is able to "high-jump" by flapping the good wing and the bad one quite vigorously together, and she can get down from higher places easily enough.
She is currently engaged in an attempt to annex my tablet computer; she has the nearly-open run of the place, and whenever I leave it un-attended, she attempts to use it. My anti-theft routines have repeatedly caught her attempting to use the machine. She has already determined that it will not respond to her beak, but it WILL respond to her feet. I used it to make an audio recording of her "Get in here, NOW!" vocal pattern, which is rather a ""whoooooo!!-ing" and slaved it to a red macrodroid button on my lock screen. There is the more common cooing heard from pigeon tracks in television shows and in the movies on the green button; while the yellow and blue buttons have random sounds associated with them. She always chooses either the red or green buttons. When she chooses the red, she postures and struts at the tablet, all the while observing her reflection(which she understands is her reflection and not another pigeon)in the glass. The green, she roosts and cleans.
This creature is scary-smart. She's capable of busting the bunker underneath the bunker she just busted. If she were any smarter she could write a book that would make anything by Homer look like it was written in crayon. And she'd read it to you. She is capable of reducing the population of any standing structure to zero. I call her "The Ex-Wife."
And if you get the Iron Man reference, good for you.
And another thing; this is a CHICKEN! It's just a little smaller and a different color but it's a CHICKEN, damnit! (She hates being called a "house chicken" though, since I'm not prepared to suggest she phonetically understands English, I'm not sure why.)
She chases the cats every now and then. The Boss had to pull me into the mix a few weeks ago when Lady B. decided the litter boxes were HER'S. Now, she has her own and she uses it. She has not cottoned to the concept of burial, yet. But she will, I have no doubt.
Speaking of real estate; she wants more. It seems she uses feathers and droppings(the ones which don't go in the box....these look slightly different, also)to mark her territory or other possessions. She has spread out from her room and her perch and now owns two boxes, a bed, a desk and a ladder. Not to mention her own personal human.
If I'm ever late with any of the things I have to do for her, I'm treated to a tent-winged and pacing lecture about adult responsibilities that would do any Jewish mother proud.
And the wing-slapping! That is just downright rude. No other word for it. But I've been working on this theory in my abused mind; being the product of abuse, it may suffer from some lack of reality, but so what?
I have this Idea that maybe, since she did not start wing-slapping and issuing commands until the three days had passed, and since she does not act this way in public(she becomes very docile and submissive)and finally, since she does not change her behavior for strange people or creatures, rather strange places, she is actually showing a strange kind of affection for home. This might be the Stockholm Syndrome talking, but it seems she only beats up on people she likes. Does that make any sense to anyone else?
 

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I want Lady B's good so gotta repeat the same thing. Advice has been given already that Lady Bracknell should be kept awat from cats,rabbits... So if you want her good then you need to keep her away. Why take chances?


Woah... this thread is really sick,I totally loved and enjoyed it. Gotta agree with spiritflys you have articulated it beautifully. Stay with PT Katie and Lady Bracknell.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Why take chances?
Simple; Nature takes chances every second of every day. Amazing things can happen with just a little faith in life and in love. For all you folks giving "advice" about keeping the pigeon separate from the INDOOR HOUSECATS who cannot successfully hunt a grasshopper, praying mantis or cicada; how many of you have first-hand (as-in NOT "I heard from this guy one time") experience raising cats with pigeons and rabbits? Nature is astounding for really real.
 

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Simple; Nature takes chances every second of every day. Amazing things can happen with just a little faith in life and in love. For all you folks giving "advice" about keeping the pigeon separate from the INDOOR HOUSECATS who cannot successfully hunt a grasshopper, praying mantis or cicada; how many of you have first-hand (as-in NOT "I heard from this guy one time") experience raising cats with pigeons and rabbits? Nature is astounding for really real.
I always say the owner knows their animals best so if you feel they are comfortable with each other the choice is yours.

Be wary however as cat saliva is toxic to pigeons and can kill them if it gets into the blood stream - so a playful swipe or a pigeon grooming itself after a friendly lick from a cat could prove deadly even if the vibes are good. Just things to look out for.
 

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Your welcome with your opinion Katie,
Talking about nature,,,
Nature designed cats to kill,they are the predators and pigeons are prey birds. Cats naturally have curiosity and killer instincts that may take over at some moment,an animal is afterall an animal, cuz'. One can never take a guarantee for an animal.
They repeatedly tell on discovery channel that those cute,cuddley and innocent looking house cats hide a hunter in them. Here on PT,people tell themselves thet their "house cats" are killing and bringing dead pigeons in.

Ok,I believe that your cats can't even kill an grasshopper but cats play with their mouths and claws and in that play-play,your cats can give Lady B a scratch unknowingly that can give bacterial infections to her and that could be fatal. Moreover, birds have hollow and light bones as nature designed them so they are vulnerable and delicate creatures.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No worries, mate!

I'm glad no one will lecture me on my friends! lol. But while we are on the subject; the world is FULL of stories like mine, of all kinds and from all corners. Observe:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0BlQzbOUk&desktop_uri=/watch?v=RR0BlQzbOUk
Elephant and Dog - Bubbles and Bella Best Friends

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AxYiLzWee84
Unlikely Animal Pairs Defy Laws of Nature
[I would like to point out that Nature's Laws are impossible to defy...what is really being defied is some tiny-dicked man's Idea of a law that HE created, not Nature]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZw-1BfHFKM&desktop_uri=/watch?v=mZw-1BfHFKM
A Lioness Adopts a baby antelope. A short documentary that will open your eyes.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dpm1hIchZg4&desktop_uri=/watch?v=dpm1hIchZg4
Documentary on a Lion and Leopard Together in the Wild

https://www.google.com/search?q=odd...ouples&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=vid
"odd animal couples" Google search

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mth49PbTbrY&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Mth49PbTbrY
The lion, tiger and bear family - Animal Odd Couples: Episode 1 Preview - BBC One

and on, and on......Nature made me with my eyes in front. Every creature with its eyes in front recognizes me as a preadator. Creatures with their eyes on the side also recognize me for what I am. But there is so much more to me than how or what I eat. Give our furred and feathered companions the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the hypothesis that they are more than Plato's souless, mindless and heartless automations.
 

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Brocky of course is right. Some people would care enough for their animals to not take chances. Many have found out that they don't know their cats as well as they thought. If you like taking foolish chances with the welfare of your bird, then nothing we can do about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Brocky of course is right. Some people would care enough for their animals to not take chances. Many have found out that they don't know their cats as well as they thought. If you like taking foolish chances with the welfare of your bird, then nothing we can do about it.
You both need to learn to dance in the rain. If nothing else, it seems to me that life is about realizing that when food is scarce, things like survival drive our coldest instincts to the fore; but when food is plentiful, friendship, love and kindness find room in the heart of a lioness for an antelope. Here, food is a stand-in for resources generally. When money is tight, human friendships and families alike are often stretched to breaking. Lack of resources drives many to predation.
Maybe Nature's Laws are nowhere near as well-understood as we think they are...

Just the same, I find the implication that I could "care" any more for my friends and dependents to be rather insulting. If that was not your intent, state it so and all is forgiven.
So often I witness human "participation" in the lives of other species to be very self-serving, arrogant and domineering. We so often think we know best and shun the whispers from our hearts which urge us to let life happen a little more. From a more evolved point of view, I feel it would be possible to see life as more than the mere struggle for resources. Like maybe that is the next step for us all: the realization that when no one is starving, the rule goes from one of survival to one of co-operation.
Maybe it's the other way around, too; ya know?

Now, I'm not saying you should go out and get a cat from the pound and a pigeon from the park and see what happens when you introduce them. That would not only be foolish, but mean as well.

But if you are walking home one night and a wild pigeon picks you to walk up to and ask for help, don't just keep going because you already have four cats, a rabbit and a golden chat. Have faith that there may be more going on than you could ever hope to know. Sit back and enjoy your stay here while you have it. If you are blessed with the opportunity to provide assistance to anyone who needs it, joyfully accept that light burden.

I feel certain that when each of us has the opportunity to end our lives in review, none will regret the time they spent doing things such as this. Each kindness will come back to soothe our last breath and ease our transition to the next stage of existence.

Sorry if I come across as being a little "heavy," as we used to say, but I believe happiness requires more than lip service to an Ideal. Each of us must work, every second of every day, to birth a better world. I do my part, which seems to be caring for those in need who cross my path. All of my friends came from very unstable situations. I feel certain they would have moved out of this life before now, were it not for my intervention at their request. So since Lady B. can't tell me she is sick or in pain, I feel quite sure she will ask the Boss Cat to either end her pain, or ask her to direct me to the situation. Either way, we die as we live: at the mercy of the winds. But maybe, just maybe, as the storm rages and life is tossed about like so much chattel; we can for a flash reach out to someone else in the whirlwind. If, when that storm passes, you find the hand in yours is a paw or a talon or a snail's foot, shun it not, for it was there with you to weather the hoary wind.
 
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