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Im not saying dont fly them but do know that everytime you do its you who is responsible for the ones that die each time you do .
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
I dont fly competitions, at all, nor will I. And the guys in Cali who killed the BOP's made bad choices for selfish reasons. I understand how they feel, but the fact that I choose not to react in the same way, seperates the way I live and the choices I make, from the way that they do....so there is nothing there to really compare...is there?
 

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Gee, Lakota, maybe that is why since the Cooper's and Perigrenes, have repopulated the Chicago area we have less Ferals than i have seen in say, 45 years? It is all in training, if your strain/variety is not bred for flying, I.E. selected for that trait above all else, yes you will loose a lot. I do not. Dave
 
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I dont fly competitions, at all, nor will I. And the guys in Cali who killed the BOP's made bad choices for selfish reasons. I understand how they feel, but the fact that I choose not to react in the same way, seperates the way I live and the choices I make, from the way that they do....so there is nothing there to really compare...is there?
the comparison is that the threats are real to the lives of your pigeons ,if there was a way of flying your birds around hawk loses they would have found them ..flying birds to the point of being hawk savey is limited as they will sooner or later be taken by a bird of prey as thats what they are built to do ... if you except the losses then thats fine but not all people are willing to watch their birds be eaten one by one as they fly them ..
 

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Those people that got arrested in California were really frustrated with their hawk problems that they violated the laws. That should tell you that Birmingham rollers get more of the brunt from hawks to push them over the edge. As I said before rollers are easier prey for hawks than homing pigeons (that is no CRAP!). Obviously this is not all or nothing. Some will survive. If you go to roller forum site you will hear that even their best rollers gets taken--that one that rolled the most gets taken. And because rollers seem to show their rolling skill around 1 year old that is a long way to wait. How frustrating that would be to train an animal, wait for almost a year to see the result and you end up taken?
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I know what you mean Rod, it is and can be very frustrating. I agree that there are methodologies (is that even a word?) that people use to keep the losses to a minimum, and I hope to be able to accomplish that. I hate more than anything to see a bird taken in the sky, but I also understand that it does, and will, and has since the begining of time, happen.

The person who develops a fool proof method....would probably be quite rich. Dont ya think?
 

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With the right management Birminghams are not much more at the Mercy of hawks than any other Flying breed. If you breed for color, and NOT Flying, than your Birds are in Jeopardy. Any one that takes heavy Losses is not training right, or is breeding for color, and not for flying ability. I find it so Funny that people try to fly COLOR breed Homers, or Color bred Rollers, and wonder why the hawks get so many.;) Dave
 
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With the right management Birminghams are not much more at the Mercy of hawks than any other Flying breed. If you breed for color, and NOT Flying, than your Birds are in Jeopardy. Any one that takes heavy Losses is not training right, or is breeding for color, and not for flying ability. I find it so Funny that people try to fly COLOR breed Homers, or Color bred Rollers, and wonder why the hawks get so many.;) Dave
you sure got that right , flying color bred birds is like flying chickens off the roof of your house , they wont make it that far .. the biggest problem with hawks and rollers is that rollers fly tighter circles around their homes then say homers do ,the fact that they dont range gives hawks way more opportunity to take them out .
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
well just for the record the bird that got nailed was a fireball roller who had been flying for 6 months straight....damn sure not a color bird....and certainly performance bred.

The birds that were flying when they got hit, were from 2500+ miles from where I live, and had only been in our kitbox for a COUPLE WEEKS.

Breed color if you want...thats cool...but we breed for the roll here at our house.
 
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well just for the record the bird that got nailed was a fireball roller who had been flying for 6 months straight....damn sure not a color bird....and certainly performance bred.

The birds that were flying when they got hit, were from 2500+ miles from where I live, and had only been in our kitbox for a COUPLE WEEKS.

Breed color if you want...thats cool...but we breed for the roll here at our house.
I wasnt saying that you flew color breds , just stating that they dont fly well in general no matter what breed they are lol :rolleyes:
 
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Damn, Lakota...... You are so nice, that it burns my toast to even disagree with you! LOL! Dave.. But i do! ;) Dave P.S. can i use the graphic you made as my sig.pic.?
you can use it anyway you wants to ;) figure it wouldnt be much use to anyone else since its got your name in it lol :p
 

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Birmingham rollers are easy prey for BOP.The folks who got caught with all the commotion with trapping BOP most certainly didn't breed for color but flew in competitions.If you wonna succeed in that you don't breed for color but performance.And yet they still had heavy looses due to hawks and falcons.There's no BOP proof pigeons,but some are easier picked than others.You just gotta use your head,and improvise.
 
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what it all comes down to is that hawks are always going to suck and pigeons are always going to be eaten by them :eek:
 

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what it all comes down to is that hawks are always going to suck and pigeons are always going to be eaten by them :eek:
I couldn't have said it better myself!:D
 

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Look guys, I know we want fast and smart birds, but wake up. Pigeons, regardless of breed, color are in Hawks food chain. So Hawks exist to remove the weak, old and sick of any flock it come across. Pigeons instinctively know this, but because man keeps the pigeon confined in one location and hawks are predators of opportunity, our lofts are food sources with one way in and one way out, We also breed at certain times a year with many young weak birds at one time for hawks to feed on. So man makes it easy for hawks at certain times of the year to feed on pigeons.

So, my point is nature gives us brains and opposable thumbs to use. Today when my neighborhood hawks came by to check on my birds as I was flying them, they got blasted with an air horn and my son’s paintball gun, (the gun fires lots and fast). Never hit the hawks but they freaked having balls fly at them. My young birds also trapped fasted than ever today. Yes, I locked down my loft for a week or two after the hawks killed three birds in one day. But my birds are meant to fly. So I did some reading, searched out my hawks and used what god gave me to protect my birds as best I can. This is what I came up with.

1. Bottle rockets to scare off when circling.
2 Air rifle to sting hawk sitting in tree, (pump only enough to hit cardboard but not punch through it).
3. Hold air horn when my birds are flying to startle hawk if on attack.
4. Son’s paint ball gun because it fires lots of balls in the air around hawks and scares them away.
5. Because I have, reached out and touched the hawks, my being out with the birds now deters the hawks from attacking.

I will not kill my hawks like the dummies in Cal, because I like them and do not break the law, (jail just isn’t worth it). But, while pigeons are in the hawk’s food chain, I remind the hawk he is in my food chain.

Yes, I am going to lose a bird here and there, but I'm not going to make it an easy meal.
 

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Lakota, You just need to stop breeding for color, and breed for flying.
This is a discussion i have had for years... Homer fliers, Roller Fliers, High flier Fliers, and Tippler Fliers....... Proved them ALL wrong.
If you can NOT train and fly them to avoid hawks, maybe you should Lock YOURS up.
I will not do that. most people here have lost more this year than i have lost in the last 3 years. And i even have a handicap, the largest flock i have flown in the last 3 years is about twelve, the less numbers you fly, the more risk you take. If you want to except your losses fine.
When i was racing, i used the methods i have mentioned in many other posts,
My losses were almost NONE.
One thing i can not except, is when someone says it can not be done.
It is training and Breeding. IF you breed for saddles, and other types of colors...... DO NOT Loft fly, because when flying is not top Priority you give up air capability. Do you know what the biggest Victims of the Cooper's around here are? WILD Mourning Doves, grackles, Robins and Starlings...... In THAT order. the way you are talking is as if you are not capable of having a loft of birds able to out fly, and out wit a Cooper's hawk.
Again, i remind you, Pigeons are WAY smarter than a Cooper's.
i respect you, but you are one of the majority that throw your hands in the air and say "Oh, Hawks are to good for my Birds"
If you are taking those kinds of losses you SHOULD lock them up.
Because you are a breeder NOT a Flyer.
If the Pigeons Physical abilities, and training are right, the Cooper's are going to lose.
Pigeons brain?= 8 Cooper's brain? 3.;) Dave
 

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I have sixty young ones that are just learning to route around the loft. and I have the hawk problem also. infat I lost one just yesterday. I also sit out and watch them fly for about one hour in the morning and 1 hr in the evening when i get home from work. Usually if I'm home when they come thru I pop them with an air rifle when they perch.If Not I bang on a tin can or something loud to scare them away. Young are most vulnerable to the hawks. So I try to let the old birds fly with them at the same time,this way the youing can learn form the old on how to be aware ot the dangers out there. Have fun flying and enjoy your birds. Donn
 
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