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Hello Folks. Mystery Illness, my pidge in danger

3K views 12 replies 3 participants last post by  cwebster 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone,

It has been a long time since I posed although I have occasionally lurked.

I have a bit of a crisis here. Have lost 2 birds in my loft over past few weeks, and now a third one is very sick.

Pasquale first showed symptoms of losing weight and being picked on by other pidges around a month ago (he's a 9 year old feral rescue, unreleasable).
I gave him 8 days of sulfatrim and did some peas and corn handfeeding. Also treated him for a week with Ronidazole, although there was no phlegm and his mouth looked clear. He seemed to get his energy back and his weight did increase.

Returned him to loft and he seemed quite fine for a week, eating, re-establishing himself, sunning himself in the aviary, bathing, etc.

Then about 4 days ago I came out one morning and he was being brutally pecked at by two other males. I got to him and brought him inside, started him on amoxytabs one 10mg tab/daily. Also started metronidazole along with ACV+ water (1cc ACV to 8 oz water) as there were signs he had the beginnings of crop stasis (regurgitating solid food, slow crop emptying).
The crop restarted and he began pooping well. He was still eating a bit on his own and I augmented this with around 25 pieces of peas/corn a day and 2cc's Kaytee formula, syringe-fed which he takes well.

At the end of day 2 things seemed pretty OK. He was pooping, he was still eating some on his own, and he had the augmentive feedings.

But had some bad episodes the early morning of day 3 - thrashing about cage a few times, disoriented, unable to stand firmly. I put him in an 80-degree heated bathroom and made a towel donut for him for rest of night - BUT by yesterday afternoon he began showing signs of significant unsteadyness on feet/balance issues PLUS the beginning of an odd head movement:

NOT head bobbing, NOT head twisting. More like head moving laterally left to right and back and forth (sorta like snakecharmers in those old movies, if you get my drift).



By yesterday evening (day 3 evening) he was refusing peas and corn and could not seem to take liquid syringe-fed food well at all, so I didn't wanna push the latter. By nightfall he had had a few 'flailing', palsey-like episodes and his head was falling forward, eyes half closed, his feet seemed to seize up and I figured he would pass shortly... but he did not.
By middle of last night he had regained some motor control and awareness of surroundings, and nestled himself BACK into the donut. But his lateral head movement continued all night long (again, in donut in cage, room ambient temperature was 80 degrees +).

I figured again by this morn he would be gone, but in fact he seems more 'together' today. More aware, stronger. I have fed him the peas and corn which he managed to take around 12 pieces of per feeding, before it seems he is becoming too tired to take more. I put him back in donut, heated room, and he is 'out of it' for maybe the first 10 minutes - unsteady on feet and stumbling...then again settles into donut. But head movement continues, although it is less pronounced than last night.

Thoughts ? (the other 2 pidges that passed before him did NOT show these neurological signs...one showed crop stasis and severe underweightedness, I solved the stasis but could not get her to regain weight; the second literally was of good weight and healthy activity one afternoon, and dead by the next morning)

....does this sound bacterial or viral ???? I have no idea how to proceed at this point beyond continued supportive care (veggies, heat). Do I keep going with Amoxy ? Do I switch to something else (I have Doxy and Enroflaxin too). It wouldn't matter, of course, if virus.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Thanks for the welcome-back...as I said I have been lurking here on and off.

I guess the big thing has been...really, my flock has been pretty darn healthy over the past 7 years...despite two major moves. So I should be thankful for that, for most part have only had to deal with the occasional bacterial infection...lost only one pidge due to illness over the last 7 years (plus one who escaped loft :().

Yes I thought I had a pretty good handle on the typical symptoms of the usual maladies...this side to side head thing is entirely new to me, however.

Tragically, my great friend and 50-year old Amazon Parrot passed recently :( and in trying to cure/save him I have exhausted all finances due to vet expenses, so this pidge cannot see an avian vet. Gotta do what I can with what I have. But good point, I do have Nystatin here so if this guy makes it I will follow up with some of that afterward.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Yes, you know what....maybe sometimes it isn't best to 'overthink' things.

A couple of things came up in a phone convo with Charis, if y'all remember her :p.

1) First off, she pointed out something which really sorta made me mad:

The Amoxy tabs which most Pigeon supply places sell are usually just 10mg tabs, and although the dosage instructions on the container say 1 pill/day...the reality is for Amoxy to be an effective tool, a 350g pidge really needs around 40mg daily.

So this 'dosing' I had been doing...was way, way, way too little :mad:

So folks, remember this.

2) YES as you stated Marina - extreme weakness could simply be due to lack of energy/hydration due to lack of food.

It's possible that although he had been pecking at his seed dish the first couple days, and seemed to have been drinking from his water cup, and had been pooping some - he really had not ingested much;
therefore my 'supplemental' feedings were ersatz - I should perhaps have gone to an aggressive hand-feeding schedule immediately, instead.

So armed with nothing but those two things, since no viewers here could seem to provide a magic answer - I went ahead and upped dosage to 2 pills every 12 hours, and went to an aggressive feeding schedule (although on the latter I am slowly ramping it up due to his weakness and protestations of taking the veggies).

He seems stronger, he can now stand and although he is still wobbly when trying to walk...he doth protesteth ...and tries to evade me with more vigor than 24 hours ago; and indeed, the head movement has almost completely ceased.

So...movement in the right direction. Still little idea what the illness might be, however....Charis suggested E. Coli (?)

I will continue to update - thanks for replying, both of you !
 
#8 ·
That sounds about where my dose is at moment he (supposed to be) around 400g but currently at 350.

So this morning he is now standing on 2 feet solidly, although when he walks he is still off-kilter and stumbles a bit. He actually did get away from me and flew to a windowsill, so that was good to see.

Head movement completely absent at this point, and his awareness of surroundings is much better. Pooping regularly.

Still keeping him in an 80-degree heated bathroom 24 hrs/day...will continue handfeeding as he is able to take more morsels per feeding session now. Not gonna try liquid syringing formula for now, no need to spoil our current m.o.
 
#9 ·
Update:

Setback. Pasquale was doing very well Yesterday, standing fairly strong, still stumbling when he walked but less pronounced. He even has been trying to eat his seed and at one feeding I discovered there was seed in his crop, even.

I kept up handfeeding and Amoxy.

I even moved his cage out of bathroom for 30 mins to let him get some sun at the window and look at the loft across the yard. But although the ambient temp was 72 degrees, within that time he started shivering. So back to the 80 degree bathroom.

This morning he was displaying the weakness again. Still able to stand and walk a bit but more off-balance than yesterday. While cleaning cage I discovered at almost all of the gone seed was just beneath the paper and towels, so he hadn't really been able to ingest much.

So back to more aggressive handfeeding today ...and I will not be so quick to judge an upswing which would make me remove him from the heated bathroom again.

This is a toughie, this one...but he's also a very tough bird.
 
#10 ·
What about canker? I see you treated with Ronidazole and there was a slight improvement. Did you put the meds in the drinking water? If so, it's possible he did not get enough of the meds to cure the canker. I always use Meditrich by Medpet and this can be used together with the amoxycillin.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Hi Marina and all,

sorry I have not checked back in several weeks. Thanks for your continued responses. Last time I checked in it was only Day 5 and he had had a setback.

OK, so SHORT of it....the boy is back with his loftmates ! But WHEW...this was a toughie of a save and rehab. And a LONG one.

21+ days in the 80-degree heated bathroom, 24/7...on amoxcillin for all that time and ronidazole and metronidazole for the first week (although there were no common signs of canker). Pills, I never trust medicating by water. Impossible to determine how much ingested via drinking water.

First 2 weeks-plus the neurological symptoms were still there, although decreasing slowly, so I handfed for those 2+ weeks. Learned my lesson NOT to take him out of that heated area, as the 2 times I did, even though he was put into areas with ambient temperatures of 70 degrees F, the results were almost disastrous : he became chilled very quickly (within 15 minutes) and the first time (as I previously mentioned) where I actually left him there for 2 hours, it relapsed his neurological symptoms badly and it took me around 3-4 days to get him BACK to where he had been before I tried that stunt. Second time, as noted in my reply above, even much less time out of the 80-degree bathroom STILL brought him down very, very quickly. Again it took several days to get him back to where he had been.

So, I probably got too optimistic there.

Anyways, at about day 15 or so he started eating a bit on his own, did not want anything to do with the cage any longer, so would fly up to the shower curtain rod at night to sleep..

After 21 days he was eating pretty well, I kept on supplemental veggies feeding of around 30 pieces/day and monitored his weight. At that point I put him back into the aviary, as weather was still pretty nice 65-70 degrees, for short stints of an hour or two (I put all his loftmates into the loft house, so he had aviary all to himself). I wanted to see how he did with some flying, landing, walking, foraging. He'd come back in to his 80-degree room soonafter.

He was pretty rickety the first couple of times...he was trying mightily but you could see he was still a bit unsteady (albeit nothing like before). After 3 days of that he seemed to get his strength and wits back...really loved sunning himself in there !...so after a few days of that I let a few of his more chill, calm loftmates out into the aviary with him...which made him happy as can be. Still only in 3 hour spurts, always back inside my house at sunset.

After a couple of days of this, all going pretty well, I let all loftmates into aviary and the 'boys' had some things to settle with each other but Pasqua re-established himself pretty quickly. So he'd spend pretty much all day in there but I'd bring him in at around 8 each night, as there was a nasty cold snap here for a few weeks at night only, it getting down to freezing for around a week and below 45 the other days.

After another week of nights in the bathroom, he was clearly 'over' the bathroom "thing", and I got a new heater for the loft, and the cold snap ended...so he was put back in full-time and he has been doing very well since ! Eating well, keeping weight on, seems happy, nobody bugging him.

So...for ANYONE who may EVER find or have a Pigeon who shows these neurological symptoms...DON'T GIVE UP ON YOUR FRIEND ! I tell ya', I was CERTAIN my boy was up for dead there a couple of times, but he truly, truly showed and communicated to me "hey Dad, I ain't ready to go yet !" A really amazing experience, that was, actually. He just clearly told me this.

And really the heat and hope and supportive care did so much. The Amoxy ? Who knows really ? - but as it is one of the best wide-net antibiotics, and as I already knew Doxycycline did NOTHING to help him (as he had gotten 5 days of it PRIOR to becoming VERY ill)...it was a decent guess for an antibiotic and once I started it was just a matter of sticking with it for the whole course.

OK, there you have it. Thanks again for your replies and support ! And Pasquale thanks you as well :)
 
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