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Discussion Starter #1
I have a pet pigeon I inherited and have had her two years. She is a wild pigeon that is tame. I got her from a vet that nursed her back to good health. She is more like a dog than a pigeon in her personality. Well I usually let her outside to fly around and follow me. A month ago I found her on the floor of my shop all fluffed up and acting sick (closing eyelid and acting tired.) I immediately found an Avian vet in town and took her there. She had a bacteria count of 30 which is way high. We put her on antibiotics and she started getting better. For two days she was herself again. I let her outside on a nice day to stretch her wings a bit. She did great. Then on the third day in the afternoon, again I found her on the ground and her wings dropped, eyelids open and then sleepy. I tried putting her back on the antibiotic, but it made no difference. Took her to vet again. They checked bacteria, the blood, her crop. Everything is checking out o.k. Meantime, she is lost so much weight she has no energy. Her wings are dropped. She has eatin a litte seed. I have forced some bird formula down her. She has drank a little. She is whithering away and I don't know what to do. They even checked her feces for parasites with a negative on the test. Please help me save my Henrietta!!
 

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I wish I could help you, I have been there so often myself.... all I can suggest is keep her warm and quiet, keep her hydrated and try to get easily digestible foods into her.
 

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Need to know, has she ever laid eggs, if yes, when was the last time, what was the name of the antibiotic given and at what dose, does she ever have access to bare soil/earth or areas other/wild birds can leave their droppings, can you post up a photo of her and a photo of any fresh droppings... no matter what they look like, how is her breathing... how many breaths a minute is she taking when resting..in/out or up/down count as one breath, what is her weight? Where roughly are you located?

Here is how to post up photos: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=525049&postcount=15

Karyn
 

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Yes, she used to lay them every three days and then stopped right before she got sick. They put her on Enrofloxacin Suspension 30 mg/ml - instructed to give her .13ml 2x day for 14days. I did and she got better the first time. It took awhile but she did. This last time I tried it for a couple days and she wasn't getting any better. Poop is watery, has white, green and clear in it. Sometimes there some mucas stuff in it. Her breathing seems ok, but will got see if I can tell how many breaths. Don't know if I know how to tell. Weight is 225gr down from 300gr back in April. Located in Black Forest. Colorado outside of Colorado Springs. Took her to an avian vet in Colorado Springs. They have given up after running numerous tests with no luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
There are LOTS of wild birds around here in the forest. Haven't found any dead or sick. She is scared of other birds, so she stays away from them and isn't social. Just flies around us and watches us from the roof of the house or follows us on the ground. We live in the mountains at 7500ft in Colorado. She has never had a problem before living here and being outside. This just came on quickly both times.
 

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There are LOTS of wild birds around here in the forest. Haven't found any dead or sick. She is scared of other birds, so she stays away from them and isn't social. Just flies around us and watches us from the roof of the house or follows us on the ground. We live in the mountains at 7500ft in Colorado. She has never had a problem before living here and being outside. This just came on quickly both times.
What I am seeking to find out is the possibility that she has the access to accidentally consume, either soil/earth and/or other bird's droppings.

Karyn
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I told vet she usually lays eggs, but hadn't recently. She didn't seemed concerned. I just emptied camera so I could take pics of her and droppings. Will do that next. Yes she does have access to consume soil/earth and probably other bird droppings outside. She doesn't hang out where they do though. She usually just hangs around in my shop or is on the roof. She does walk around the drive which is recycled asphalt. But she has been around it all for 2 yrs with no problems. Will go take some pics now and see if I can post them.
 

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I was able to get her to drink some water from a seringe with is good.
You can also give her some sugar water for energy, 1 teaspoon of sugar to 2 ounces of water (60mL), stir until dissolved, and give her a few CCs' at a time slowly (no more than 5mL = 1 teaspoon at any one time, no more than 2-3 times a day). Don't substitute this for water, as her body will see this as food and process it differently than water, she will still need plain water through the day as well.

Karyn
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Must tell you that the darn deer mice have been in my shop alot this winter. The first time I found her, the vet didn't notice it, but I did, she seemed to have a red area around some feather bases on her neck. I have since checked the area and it is no longer red. I thought maybe the first time something had bitten her. But nothing showing on the outside of her body this time.
 

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Thanks for the information, I would suspect two things, one is a reproductive issue, such as a malformed egg stuck inside of her the is causing her issues and it could be a few other things associated with her reproductive organs and the second is the possibly she could have a worm infection and she could even have co-infections with both. That she first responded to antibiotic treatment with the same set of symptoms, but no longer does is kind of indicative of infection, but the infection is no longer sensitive to the Baytril (Enrofloxacin). With the worms we recently had a bird that went to the vet and they did a fecal exam, which showed no parasites, but was treated with a de-wormer and the next day passed worms, so a fecal exam, while useful, isn't always conclusive.

If she were mine, I would make a change in meds to two meds together one is called Trimethoprim/Sulfa and the other is called Metronidazole and ASAP, once I felt she had a bit of strength in her body I would de-worm her, but I would only use a very gentle de-wormer on her called Pyrantel Pamoate, you vet should have all these meds. The dosing for both the TMS and The Metronidazole would be 50mg/kg BID (twice a day) and the dosing for the Pyrantel would be 25mg/kg once, repeat in 14d.

Have a read of this thread, it is similar to yours:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/ogo-female-doesnt-look-well-51233.html

Has she ever passed any funny looking things in her droppings, like in the thread above?


Karyn
 

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Hi ladyobyrne,


A Pigeon would not lay an Egg every three days, so, something is not making sense there with that, can you try again on that one?


Do you have, or can you get, Metronidazole? And, 'DIVET' or 'Triple Sulfa'?


These might just be useful here...and or to use along with the Enroflaxyn.

Worms ( As Karyn wisely is suspecting ) seems a good call to me.

For which 'Moxidectin Plus' would be a very good de-Wormer to consider.



But, along with that, I suspect some other issues, also.


Does she get a good Grit normally?


Also...
Deer Mice are very dangerous to all other Creatures, and, with the advances in the Hantavirus, I would suggest you give the condition some careful thought for your own, and, anyone else's safety.


Best wishes!


Phil
Lv
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I do have the metronidazole Oral Susp 50mg/ml and gave it to her for two days and she seemed worse. Was instructed to give .90cc 1xdy They sent off the test for parasites and it took a week to get back. It came back negative.
 

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I see Phil has posted as well with his thoughts, I just wanted to mention that the Trimethoprim/Sulfa would be a drug of choice to treat the Coccidiosis and Chlamydia, as well as the reproductive issue I spoke of.

Karyn
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This pigeon DID lay one egg every three days. If I didn't take the egg, then in a couple days there would be two eggs. Weird or not, she DID lay an egg every three days. There are no pigeons around here either. She really wanted to be a mommy.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
She was checked for Coccidiosis. I don't know ifshe was checked for the Chlamydia though. She ran feces tests, blood test, crop test. All came up negative. We did retest her after the first go round on antibiotics and she was back in normal range.
 

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Well, tests for endoparasites are notorious for being incomplete or not really showing what is there.

I would with-hold all medium to large seeds for the time being, and, only carefully allow very smal Seeds.

Ideally, no seeds and Tube Feeds of liquid Formulas for a while would be safest - since we do not realy know what is happenning in her GI and or what inflamation or obstructions may be present.

A Bird should not do 'worse' because of Matronidazole being given, so long as it were not an over dose...so, hard to know what that event meant, other than there are or likely are more than one issue going on, and, any single Med will not be addressing the wider picture of course.

Did the Vet test for Coccidiosis?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I don't believe she was getting good grit on a regular basis. I do have some in there now with her and have had the last two days as I just thought of it. Never intended to own a pigeon, it just happened and now I am getting a "crash course" fast.
 
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