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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Toto, my avatar, 16 years old feral rescued as a baby, living isnide my house, no contact with other pigeons, is completely passive today, does not eat or drink, one eye closed.
He is a PMV survivor. Poops green and liquid since a certain time. I gave him probiotics, but no result. Toto refuses totally any form of grit, when I first discovered pigeons need grit (1993) he was already adult and never wanted to touch it.
Cannot be bacterial, he has no contact with other pigeons.
My vet advises me giving him cortisones (Prednisone) to "boost" some strenght in him.
What do you think? Should I take her advice? Or simply give more vitamins and probiotics while handfeeding him?
He NEVER NEVER took any medecine in his life... will the prednisone not be harmful for his digestion that is already in a bad shape?
I know he is old and maybe his time has come... but I cannot just sit down and wait for him to die.
 

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I'm sure you have taken the primary steps----warmth, hydrate & nourishment. Beyond that I would get a fecal and a throat swab to determine & eliminate what you can. You can buy a high calorie paste called NUTRICAL from your petshop.
 

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Hi Myriam,

Oh, dear, I am sorry that Toto is ill, I know how much he means to you. I hope this is just a rough day and that he will make a spontaneous recovery.

Prednisone could depress his immune system...there are free floating bacteria in the atmosphere, according to my vet, but I don't really know much about that.

Have you wormed him recently? Some insects are vectors for worms and a pigeon will occasionally eat insects.

There is a product called Poly Aid which is "to stop sick pigeons from starving", I don't know whether it is for sale in Belgium but the Birdcare Company will send it abroad http://www.birdcareco.com/acatalog/The_Birdcare_Company_Poly_Aid_150.html

I would also ty giving him echinacea to boost his immune system.

Cynthia
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm sure you have taken the primary steps----warmth, hydrate & nourishment. Beyond that I would get a fecal and a throat swab to determine & eliminate what you can. You can buy a high calorie paste called NUTRICAL from your petshop.
I only have Kaytee Exact. I gave a few seeds in his mouth, but he is struggling not to eat. Drank water + "rehydrat" for birds.
A fecal will take 10 days to have the result...
I am hestitating to transport him to the vet for the throat swab, afraid of the stress (15kms in a car) now that he is so weak. I cannot really believe he could have canker, he ONLY eats and drinks in his OWN BOWLS.
 

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OMG, myrpalom, I can't believe your vet would not consider this senior bird to be an emergency. There is no reason to transport the bird, the vet can tell you how to preserve the fecal & oral samples. I would beg & plead for an immediate testing & reading of the results.
 

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Myriam,

I'm so sorry to hear about Toto not feeling well.

I would only recommend some good immune boosting stuff, not knowing what is going on with him, medicine wouldn't be a recommendation until you get an idea of what is wrong with him. Does he get much sunlight and outdoor time?
How does his poop look?

I would give some B complex vitamins in the form of Brewers yeast, and a drop of organic cod liver oil, as as close to natural as possible, it will be more digestible if it is not synthetic. Also, if he doesn't have an upset stomach I would give him a garlic soft gel cap-to build his immune system and help keep any parsites away. I would even give him a half of an alfalfa tablet for extra calcium and trace minerals.But one a day, not too much at once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Myriam,

Prednisone could depress his immune system...

I did not know that. What does cortisone do (positively) exactly for the organism? What is the real use of it in a healing proces? My vet says that she pulled through a few very old pigeons with prednisone.

there are free floating bacteria in the atmosphere, according to my vet, but I don't really know much about that.
I
I know PMV and Adenovirosis type II are airborne. I could bring it inside my home in my clothes? I suspect some cases of adenovirose recently in my loft.


Have you wormed him recently? Some insects are vectors for worms and a pigeon will occasionally eat insects.

I never wormed Toto, assuming he could not get worms in my bed, my couch or his cage... I never saw him catch any insect in the garden.

There is a product called Poly Aid which is "to stop sick pigeons from starving", I don't know whether it is for sale in Belgium but the Birdcare Company will send it abroad [/B

I still have to try with a seringue and Kaytee this evening. If Poly Aid is better for an ill bird, I'll order it.

I would also ty giving him echinacea to boost his immune system.Cynthia


I wil buy some tomorrow (don't have that at hand) and give him.

Myriam
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OMG, myrpalom, I can't believe your vet would not consider this senior bird to be an emergency. There is no reason to transport the bird, the vet can tell you how to preserve the fecal & oral samples. I would beg & plead for an immediate testing & reading of the results.
In Belgium vets don't have their own laboratory. Samples are tested in the labs of the University Veterinarian Schools for example for my vet in Gent. It takes average 10 days. I don't know of any vet having his own lab. I will bring in his stool samples this evening aroun 8PM, so they will be sent tomorrow morning.

I was talking about transporting him for the throat swab.
Myiam
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Myriam,

I'm so sorry to hear about Toto not feeling well.

I would only recommend some good immune boosting stuff, not knowing what is going on with him, medicine wouldn't be a recommendation until you get an idea of what is wrong with him. Does he get much sunlight and outdoor time?
How does his poop look?

I would give some B complex vitamins in the form of Brewers yeast, and a drop of organic cod liver oil, as as close to natural as possible, it will be more digestible if it is not synthetic. Also, if he doesn't have an upset stomach I would give him a garlic soft gel cap-to build his immune system and help keep any parsites away. I would even give him a half of an alfalfa tablet for extra calcium and trace minerals.But one a day, not too much at once.

Yes, he stays in the sunshine every single day there IS sunshine in Belgium, I assume you know that is not very much in Belgium...

Trees, could you translate "cod liver oil" and "alfafa" in Dutch plesae? I don't know what they are...
Myriam
 

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Myrium, I'm so sorry Toto is not feeling well. I would definitely go with putting him on a heating pad and initially hand feeding him very small amounts of Kaytee. Is his seed fresh?

Could he have swallowed anything in your home like a staple, or, taken a bite from a plant? Anything that may be out of the ordinary for him. Personally, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about him not eating grit. My vet told me one time that she never gave her ringnecked doves grit and she had two that lived over 22 years.

I hope and pray he will begin to improve quickly. I know he means the world to you.
 

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Yes, he stays in the sunshine every single day there IS sunshine in Belgium, I assume you know that is not very much in Belgium...

Trees, could you translate "cod liver oil" and "alfafa" in Dutch plesae? I don't know what they are...
Myriam

Does this help?

cod liver oil
de olie van de kabeljauwlever

Alfalfa
Luzerne
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Is it possible he had a stroke?
My life partner is insomniac, and tells me that around 6.15 AM Toto was still alert, threatening him with wingslaps and and a virile " rucucu I am the boss here", eating and drinking.
I woke up late, around 9 AM (shame on me, but I also sleep badly at night) anf found Toto totally unresponsive.
In that case, what to do?
 

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Is it possible he had a stroke?
My life partner is insomniac, and tells me that around 6.15 AM Toto was still alert, threatening him with wingslaps and and a virile " rucucu I am the boss here", eating and drinking.
I woke up late, around 9 AM (shame on me, but I also sleep badly at night) anf found Toto totally unresponsive.
In that case, what to do?
I read the thread but had no advice really. I believe that it's quite possible for birds and/or pigeons to have the same things happen to them that happen to us.
With your bird not being around other birds and pretty much isolated from the world, I tend to believe that it's more the age than anything that's really "wrong" with Toto. I sure hope he comes around. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Is his seed fresh?

Could he have swallowed anything in your home like a staple, or, taken a bite from a plant? Anything that may be out of the ordinary for him.
I give him fresh seeds twice a day. What he spills is for the ringneck doves that visit my garden, and it is a lot... In fact I feed all the birds in my garden, they all have their specific seeds, Toto has a mixture of very small seeds with lots o safflower... this is an "extra" for the wild birds.

He could not have eaten anything wrong, his cage is next to me at the computer, no plants around. He spends a lot of time on the couch, under my constant supervision or on my lap.
 

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had 1 bird I found on cage floor--laying face forward & panting--put it on heat/no perch/food&water at its side/covered cage 3 sides & top/ it stayed that way for about 4 weeks--figured a stroke or mild heart attack--bird was 5yrs old. same bird 2 years later same pattern---same care procedures---bird is now 11 years old and thriving.
don't give up--keep trying to save toto
 

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Well, Prednisone won't kill her, so if your vet has used it to save lives it will be worth the risk. It saved my own life 2 years ago, so I should be grateful rather than wary.

Rainbows, thank you for sharing that positive experience!

Cynthia
 
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