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Discussion Starter #1
I recently found this site while trying to find some info for one of my sick birds. I hope you can help me.
I have 47 homers, tumblers and fantails. Noticed one of my homers (5 months old) gone light 11 days ago. No visible symtoms other than very thin and fluffed up (still up on perch). Did not come down to eat. Took her into work with me to start a treatment. Small rock hard dark stool in carrier.
Tube fed her "exact" and started her on metronidozole. No lesions in mouth, no head tilting. Just "hunched up". After her first feeding, she had liquid green diarrhea. Continued this treatment for 5 days - no change. No worse, no better. A little more alert. Picking at food but not eating it. Added albon on the 6th day. Was advised by an avian vet to stop albon and start on SMZ (sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim) on the 9th day. Still giving metro and tube feeding 3 times a day. This is day 11 and no change as far as eating. Will not eat or drink on her own. Stools are dark green soft/loose formed. Alert off and on and preens herself off and on. Out of the 11 days, vomited her feed maybe 4 times. Other than that she just sits there and looks around. I just pulled another 5 month old hen from the same loft. Same symtoms (basicly none other than thin) except 2nd one is drinking water only. Started her on same treatment. After her first tube feeding she vomited some of it back up. Can anybody tell me whats going on? Help!:confused:
 

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I recently found this site while trying to find some info for one of my sick birds. I hope you can help me.

I have 47 homers, tumblers and fantails. Noticed one of my homers (5 months old) gone light 11 days ago.

* Was advised by an avian vet to stop albon and start on SMZ (sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim) on the 9th day.

* I just pulled another 5 month old hen from the same loft. Same symtoms (basicly none other than thin) except 2nd one is drinking water only. Started her on same treatment. After her first tube feeding she vomited some of it back up. Can anybody tell me whats going on? Help!:confused:
I am sorry to hear a couple of your pijjies appear to be a bit under the weather. :(

While you are waiting for further input, I would suggest offering supplement heat to both (placing them on a towel lined heating pad, set on low or under a low wattage lamp). I'm assuming you have each isolated from the others & each other.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to replace plain water with a little rehydrating solution (to a cup of room temperature water, add a pinch each of salt & sugar).

Other than advising to stop the albon & start the SMZ, what suggestion did the avian vet have as to what might be going on?

Cindy
 

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It could be a lot of different things. You don't have an avian vet who can see her? I've had some cases like this that didn't respond to the meds I had on hand and my vet had to give them newer generation drugs I'd never heard of.
 

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Sorry you're experiencing these problems.

Aside from pulling them from your loft and putting them both on heating pads, I would stop the sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim (Bactrim) and go for a stronger antibiotic like Baytril. I usually start with Bactrim but if that is not showing any results will switch to Baytril. I also give Nystatin at the same time to combat any yeast infection.

Could you describe their loft or aviary setting - type of flooring, etc. That may give us some clue to what is going on.

Are they showing any signs of a respiratory problem - open mouth breathing?

Your best bet right now is get a poop sample analyzed. Sometimes worms can cause them to throw up and lose weight. Coccidiosis can do the same but you've already treated them with Albon.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am sorry to hear a couple of your pijjies appear to be a bit under the weather. :(

While you are waiting for further input, I would suggest offering supplement heat to both (placing them on a towel lined heating pad, set on low or under a low wattage lamp). I'm assuming you have each isolated from the others & each other.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to replace plain water with a little rehydrating solution (to a cup of room temperature water, add a pinch each of salt & sugar).

Other than advising to stop the albon & start the SMZ, what suggestion did the avian vet have as to what might be going on?

Cindy
Thank you. Both are isolated from others and brought inside. Not "fluffed up" now just "hunched". #1 is not drinking (or eating) at all on her own. Haven't seen #2 drink today yet. Both just standing there. Preen a little off and on. The vet that I called does mostly exotics. Didn't have a clue as to what might be going on because of lack of symptoms. Thought maybe circovirus (but not sure because of lacking symtoms). Told me to keep doing what I was doing (supportive care) and the 2 meds for possible secondary bacteria infection. I'm sooo confused
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry you're experiencing these problems.

Aside from pulling them from your loft and putting them both on heating pads, I would stop the sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim (Bactrim) and go for a stronger antibiotic like Baytril. I usually start with Bactrim but if that is not showing any results will switch to Baytril. I also give Nystatin at the same time to combat any yeast infection.

Could you describe their loft or aviary setting - type of flooring, etc. That may give us some clue to what is going on.

Are they showing any signs of a respiratory problem - open mouth breathing?

Your best bet right now is get a poop sample analyzed. Sometimes worms can cause them to throw up and lose weight. Coccidiosis can do the same but you've already treated them with Albon.
My lofts are "gazebo" type open in the summer (wired), closed up in the winter (open right now) wood floor w/whitepine/cedar mixed shavings.
No respiratory symptons. Did float for parasites - negative, smear for bacteria-rods seen only. No good aviary vet around here.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If fecal was negative for parasites then I think your best bet right now is to go with Baytril and Nystatin.
Not familiar with NYSTATIN, what is it and where do I get it? I feel bad - she's hung on for 11 days, I'm assuming thats a good sign?
 

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A lot of long rods? Sure would be nice to do a Gram stain on them. If they're Gram- rods, you don't want to see a lot of those. Usually, a few days of KayTee will restore the right balance of bacteria in the stools. I've had to carry some birds on KayTee for a month or more when they've been really bad. You can probably discontinue the Metronidazole if you haven't already. I concur on switching to the Baytril. In older hens, you can sometimes see oviduct infections that will not respond very quickly at all, and often not to Baytril, but that shouldn't be the case here.

Pidgey
 

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Nystatin is a drug that prevents fungi from growing, like Candida. It's a drug that doesn't go systemic--it stays in the gut (travels through with the food, anyhow) and only works there. You can get it as a powder called "Medistatin" from a few of the pigeon supply houses.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A lot of long rods? Sure would be nice to do a Gram stain on them. If they're Gram- rods, you don't want to see a lot of those. Usually, a few days of KayTee will restore the right balance of bacteria in the stools. I've had to carry some birds on KayTee for a month or more when they've been really bad. You can probably discontinue the Metronidazole if you haven't already. I concur on switching to the Baytril. In older hens, you can sometimes see oviduct infections that will not respond very quickly at all, and often not to Baytril, but that shouldn't be the case here.

Pidgey
It was a stained cytology showing alot of long rods. I'm tube feeding 24 mls Kaytee exact 3 times a day for each of them. Can baytril be give WITH smz/tmp? Baytril dose? The vets around here don't have a clue about pigeons. I'm doing the research, their giving me the prescriptions. Their trying to help but don't know what to do.
 

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Well, there's conflicting information about taking Baytril concurrently with a Trimethoprim/Sulfa. They overlap for a lot of things and we tend to use the Trimethoprim/Sulfa for nestlings as well as for certain anaerobic infections that Baytril doesn't get. Baytril goes more after Gram negatives than positives. The old formulary for Baytril went with a straight 15 mg/kg, PO, BID (15 milligrams of pure medicine per kilogram of bird, orally, twice daily) and the newer ones give a range of 5-20 mg/kg, PO, BID.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, there's conflicting information about taking Baytril concurrently with a Trimethoprim/Sulfa. They overlap for a lot of things and we tend to use the Trimethoprim/Sulfa for nestlings as well as for certain anaerobic infections that Baytril doesn't get. Baytril goes more after Gram negatives than positives. The old formulary for Baytril went with a straight 15 mg/kg, PO, BID (15 milligrams of pure medicine per kilogram of bird, orally, twice daily) and the newer ones give a range of 5-20 mg/kg, PO, BID.

Pidgey
I will try batril, not sure I have any left though (had to use it for my dog). You think this is maybe an overgrowth of bacteria? Each are 5 months old only weighing about 3 oz. The only other thing these 2 have in common is that I had to move them to my other loft at a young age because they were shyer and being bullied by juvinile cocks. They were never "pushy" when it came to feeding time.
Thank you again for your help
 

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Personally, I would not give the Bactrim with the Baytril.

I am an idiot when it comes to converting ounces to grams but 3 oz seems mighty low. Usually, at 5 months a pigeon can weigh 300 - 350 grams. This may be the key to the problem in that they may not have been getting enough food.

Pidgey, would you convert the oz to grams for us?
 

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In weight terms, it'd be like 90 grams, so it's either a micro-pigeon breed, a typo, a bad scale or one very emaciated pigeon.

Pidgey
 

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Anyhow, those birds aren't likely to feel any hunger or thirst getting 24 milliliters of formula, three times per day. You'd almost have to stop for a day or two for them to actually work up enough hunger to start eating on their own. Incidentally, I've seen a lot of long rods when the birds are being fed a lot of Kaytee so I'm not sure that the fecal results would be very valid under the circumstances.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter #17
In weight terms, it'd be like 90 grams, so it's either a micro-pigeon breed, a typo, a bad scale or one very emaciated pigeon.

Pidgey
A little of all 3. Some of my hens are VERY Petite (even the eggs were tiny), they are emaciated (breast bone protruding), and the postage scale at work didn't work so I had to weigh her on the dog scale (not accurate - 3 oz).
My smallest hen came out of an egg no bigger than a large grape. Her parents abandoned her upon hatching. She was fostered by an extremely large (my biggest) hen that I had rescued on the side of the road. "Frenchy" was participating in a race when she was attacked by a hawk down the street from the vet hospital that I work at. I took her in (broken/gouged wing) found her owner through the bands on her legs and called him. Seems she was headed back home to Quebec! The owner told me that if I wanted to nurse her back to health I could keep her. "Frenchy" raised this itty bitty baby no bigger than your thumb nail as her own. "Baby" is full grown now and not much bigger than a morning dove. Very sleek and petite - but tough. (Frenchy's wing healed but she can't fly, she has a "handicap ramp" to the top perch!)
 

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Well, then, it looks like all we've really got to go by for weight is guesses. Just out of curiosity, have they put any weight back on since you've started feeding them? Another thing you might do is get a cheap plastic kitchen scale from your local grocery store--those work pretty well.

Pidgey
 

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Most of our mourning doves have weighed anywhere from 90 to 125 grams but a pigeon should still weigh more than that. We have a very petite little hen who never weighs more than about 225 grams. Hopefully, with you feeding yours Exact, she will begin putting on a bit more weight. You can help add weight by using a product called Nutrical. It is specifically made to put on weight for dogs but we have long used it for our pigeons, particularly those that are recuperating. It comes in a tube and you simply squeeze out about 1/2 inch and add it to the formula at least one time per day.
 

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Well, then, it looks like all we've really got to go by for weight is guesses. Just out of curiosity, have they put any weight back on since you've started feeding them? Another thing you might do is get a cheap plastic kitchen scale from your local grocery store--those work pretty well.

Pidgey
Just by feeling, #1 has put on some weight. She is starting to pick at food but nothing substantial. I will pick up a scale. Important to have but I just haven't had any sick birds and I relied on the postal scale at work (battery dead) I just put them in a large cage outside my door that I set up for them on the warm days - very warm today. They seem a little more active with more room and hearing the other birds. Walking around and picking at seed. When I bring them inside in their smaller cage they seem very depressed and just sit there "hunched". I'm just very baffled. Never had this problem before.
 
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