How does calcutta's and pooling work?

6822 Views 32 Replies 11 Participants Last post by SmithFamilyLoft, May 22, 2009

windaidedaviary

Discussion Starter · May 14, 2009

Want to know if you have info. Thanks.

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Alamo

· #2 · May 14, 2009

Pooling>> Wagering on your entry,,Most start with $1 and could go as high as $100 or more depending on how big the Futurity or One loft race is...Most Pools pay 10 to 1...

Calcutta >> Lofts bid on birds or lofts to win the race...Example: If you think one of Alamo`s birds will win the race,you bid on a certain bird of his,or if Alamo is flying his birds,you may bid on his loft at auction...So even though your own pigeon or loft does not win or place high enough to win any $$$,if you are the high bidder on Alamo`s loft,you will win the 1st place loft Calcutta...If Alamo is 2nd,you will get the 2nd place winnings,etc etc etc....
Hope Alamo wins something this year again, as he did last year !!! hahahahahaha!!!!

learning

· #3 · May 14, 2009

Just a little FYI here. This is technically illeagal in most, if not all states in the country. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time, but it is gambling and can be prosecuted.

Participate at your own risk.

Dan

SmithFamilyLoft

· #4 · May 14, 2009

learning said:
Just a little FYI here. This is technically illeagal in most, if not all states in the country. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time, but it is gambling and can be prosecuted.

Participate at your own risk.

Dan

!!!

Yes, some states regulate this closely. Bill Halter of the Loft Stormers from Iowa found out the other day, that if he sells tickets to raise money for a local medical center, in which the bird's band number is printed on the ticket, and they are sold at a local fair. With $7 going to the medical center charity, and $3 going to the person who bought the ticket with the winning bird from some future race....he must acquire a special "Gambling Permit", and fill out half a dozen forms in triplicate, and jump through some hoops.

Our combine discontinued gambling years ago.

Our Commonwelath of Pennnsyvania has taken over all the vice for themselves....the numbers racket...horse racing....slot machines...all hard stuff sold through state owned stores, etc. All others are highly regulated, like the local church bingo...state officials don't want anyone to cut into their "take" when it comes to vice.

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bbcdon

· #5 · May 15, 2009

I agree Warren. What they deem illegal for the taxpayer is a good source of tax revenue for the government.

[MN]eXist^_^

· #6 · May 15, 2009

Pool all the way through baby!!! So you guys are saying if all goes well before the "main race" in the winners cup that you 2 won't pool?"if there is pooling" How many birds in that race? 500? Anyone can win.

learning

· #7 · May 15, 2009

[MN]eXist^_^ said:
Pool all the way through baby!!! So you guys are saying if all goes well before the "main race" in the winners cup that you 2 won't pool?"if there is pooling" How many birds in that race? 500? Anyone can win.

No actually, I can say for a certainty that regardless of how things play out, I will not be pooling. It is a personal choice for me. I have nothing against others doing as they see fit. It is just not something I will be engaging in. I only posted the above as a source of information that people may not realize. I am all for personal choice. I just would hate for someone to be hauled of to court for something they had no idea might get them in trouble.

Good luck to all.

Dan

bbcdon

· #8 · May 15, 2009

I agree Dan. With just about every city, county, state, and the feds running budget deficits, they will will be looking to collect money from any avenue they can. They would rather fine you that put you in the slammer. A fine is revenue, where as incarceration is an expense.

windaidedaviary

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 15, 2009

All the races should discontinue these pools and calcutta's if they are illegal. It puts people at risk.

A family friend who owns a local bar got fined during the superbowl. You know those squares we all play at the office, well, he had one going in the bar and got popped by an undercover.

At the high school football games, we have a 50/50 raffle...50% of the collected money goes to the winning ticket holder, 50% goes to wherever it goes to. This is gambling.

bbcdon

· #10 · May 15, 2009 (Edited)

It wouldn't surprise me if some of those undercover agents participate in pools with their friends and others, but are ordered by their supervisors to bust other pools. I bet the ones that got busted just got fined($$$$$), as the treasury of the city, county, or state loves revenue. It seems to me that there are bigger issues than busting sporting pools, with all of the real crime abounding out there. They need to concentrate on drugs and gangs, which are decaying the american culture. They don't go after all of the big drug dealers, as I would not be surprised at all that they bribe our politicians and police to leave them alone. Yes, money can corrupt, but lets beat up on the little guy, Joe sixpack.

Alamo

· #11 · May 16, 2009

If you think pooling is a no no,don`t do it...At our club,we have a 3 bird for $5 pool,and a $1 pick red pool....Not exactly what I call gambling...What about the IF and AU Convention races..Does anyone here send birds ??? Isn`t this BIG time gambling ?? The 2009 IF race has 1240+ entries @ $125.00 each..That`s what I call gambling..Not a $5 pool or a $1 pool as our club does....
What about ALL those ONE LOFT races you send your birds to ?? Gambling ??
You betcha life it is !!!!!!.................Alamo

Lovebirds

· #12 · May 16, 2009

Alamo said:
If you think pooling is a no no,don`t do it...At our club,we have a 3 bird for $5 pool,and a $1 pick red pool....Not exactly what I call gambling...What about the IF and AU Convention races..Does anyone here send birds ??? Isn`t this BIG time gambling ?? The 2009 IF race has 1240+ entries @ $125.00 each..That`s what I call gambling..Not a $5 pool or a $1 pool as our club does....
What about ALL those ONE LOFT races you send your birds to ?? Gambling ??
You betcha life it is !!!!!!.................Alamo

Say what you want, but IF you get caught.............I know a club up in MI that had this problem a few years ago. One of the members got pissed off about something so he turned them in. Apparently told the officers WHERE and WHEN he could catch the guys betting. They walked into the club house right in the middle of everything and confiscated ALL money...all paperwork and shut them down. There was a BIG court battle to the tune of 1000's of $$'s.............it wasn't pretty.
And as far as I know, the bigger races also have to winners of the big money prizes fill out a form (1099? maybe) and the money they win is reported to the government and taxes are paid on it.

learning

· #13 · May 16, 2009

Alamo said:
If you think pooling is a no no,don`t do it...At our club,we have a 3 bird for $5 pool,and a $1 pick red pool....Not exactly what I call gambling...What about the IF and AU Convention races..Does anyone here send birds ??? Isn`t this BIG time gambling ?? The 2009 IF race has 1240+ entries @ $125.00 each..That`s what I call gambling..Not a $5 pool or a $1 pool as our club does....
What about ALL those ONE LOFT races you send your birds to ?? Gambling ??
You betcha life it is !!!!!!.................Alamo

Not to stir the pot here, but there is a big difference between entering the AU or IF races, or for that matter any one loft or futurity event, and pooling. Paying an entry fee to participate is in no way gambling on who will win. These are two very different things. We pay to participate in a lot of things. Soccer, baseball, basketball, etc, etc leagues for our kids require entry fees to participate. We are not, however, gambling on who wins the games.

Let's not confuse the issue here. There is a difference between entry fees and pooling.

Dan

SmithFamilyLoft

· #14 · May 18, 2009

learning said:
Not to stir the pot here, but there is a big difference between entering the AU or IF races, or for that matter any one loft or futurity event, and pooling. Paying an entry fee to participate is in no way gambling on who will win. These are two very different things. We pay to participate in a lot of things. Soccer, baseball, basketball, etc, etc leagues for our kids require entry fees to participate. We are not, however, gambling on who wins the games.

Let's not confuse the issue here. There is a difference between entry fees and pooling.

Dan

Yep I agree !

BIG difference between taking your race horse to the track and paying an entry fee to enter the race, and then it's another issue to walk up to the betting counter and placing a bet on your horse. Huge legal difference.

Alamo

· #15 · May 18, 2009

So, I guess you want me to beleive that NOBODY who enters their birds, in the AU or IF Conventions, wagers on their bird the day of shipping ??? I have a video of the Snowbird shipping,and they had pooling that would make James Paul Getty look like a pauper..And at one time,he was the richest man in the USA....I jave entered my two pigeons in this years IF race for one reason,just as all the other Lofts have..TO WIN MONEY...I am gambling that my pigeons will beat the other 1250+ entries...And you tell me that`s not gambling ??? You can`t compare horse racing with pigeon racing...Probally 95% or more of the lofts who race pigeons are doing it as a hobby....So that`s what makes it gambling when you enter a money race...In horse racing,95% of the owners are racing horses for a living,and that`s why the entry fee`s are not considered wagering...Think about it for a minute.....Alamo

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LUCKYT

· #16 · May 18, 2009

So Alamo, is this REALLY the place to bring this up? Dave

learning

· #17 · May 18, 2009

Alamo said:
So, I guess you want me to beleive that NOBODY who enters their birds, in the AU or IF Conventions, wagers on their bird the day of shipping ??? I have a video of the Snowbird shipping,and they had pooling that would make James Paul Getty look like a pauper..And at one time,he was the richest man in the USA....I jave entered my two pigeons in this years IF race for one reason,just as all the other Lofts have..TO WIN MONEY...I am gambling that my pigeons will beat the other 1250+ entries...And you tell me that`s not gambling ??? You can`t compare horse racing with pigeon racing...Probally 95% or more of the lofts who race pigeons are doing it as a hobby....So that`s what makes it gambling when you enter a money race...In horse racing,95% of the owners are racing horses for a living,and that`s why the entry fee`s are not considered wagering...Think about it for a minute.....Alamo

You are confusing emotion with the law. I am not saying that anything you have stated above doesn't happen. It always has and probably always will. However, that doesn't make it legal. Paying an entry fee to participate in an event is not gambling in the eyes of the law. Winning prize money for said event is not gambling in the eyes of the law. Filling out a pool sheet and laying your money down saying a certain bird is going to win is gambling in the eyes of the law.

Like I said in an earlier post, I am all for personal choice. I am not breaking any law to pay money to enter an event. Nor am I breaking any law in cashing that check when my bird wins (let's hope!) as long as I fill out the appropriate paper work and pay the appropriate taxes involved. However, I am most deffinitely breaking several laws by participating in any pooling activities, and in doing so, run the risk of prosecution.

It is really pretty cut and dry here. I don't see where the confusion is taking place. It is what it is and wishing it were something else is of no consequence. If you want to pool your birds, by all means, go right ahead. Odds are, you probably won't get caught. All I am saying is that it is a gamble (no pun intended) that people need to be aware of.

Dan

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learning

· #18 · May 18, 2009

windaidedaviary said:
All the races should discontinue these pools and calcutta's if they are illegal. It puts people at risk.

A family friend who owns a local bar got fined during the superbowl. You know those squares we all play at the office, well, he had one going in the bar and got popped by an undercover.

At the high school football games, we have a 50/50 raffle...50% of the collected money goes to the winning ticket holder, 50% goes to wherever it goes to. This is gambling.

As a side note to this particular post. In Georgia, raffles are considered gambling but you can apply for a permit through the Sheriff's office. We did this when the high school band I was the director of raffled off a Harley Davidson Fatboy as a fundraiser. We had specific guidelines we had to follow but it was legal and legit. By the way, the permit itself was free. Great fundraiser by the way. We made over $8000 for the band and the winner of the Harley was a recently divorced single mom who had three kids and only bought one ticket the night before the raffle closed. She immediately sold it for $17,000 cash!

Dan

george simon

· #19 · May 18, 2009 (Edited)

Well here goes my two cents worth (big bet). First lets go back to the question in the first post. POOLING there are two types of pooling that take place at some of these races. The 10 for1 and the Winner take all, in the 10for1 depending on how much money is taken in there can be more then one winner I will use the 1 dollar pool as an example lets say that 100 dollars is taken in. Those that run the race take 15% of that 100 leaving 85 dollars thats is now what that pool is worth we can have 9 winners the first 8 get 10 dollars back and the 9 guy gets 5 dollars back.This is the way it works for the 5,10,20,50 and 100 dollar pools Keep in mind that the people running the race take their 15% cut of every pool.So much for the 10 for1pools. Now lets look at the winner take all , I will use the same example as used in the 10 for 1. The 1dollar winner take all has 100 dollars less 15% for a 85 dollar pool here the first bird in takes it all. remember the HOUSE TAKES ITS 15% OF ALL THESE POOL. at one of the SNOWBIRD races that I attended there was a 1,000 dollar winner take all pool and there were 13 people in it.NOW THE KICKER HERE IS YOUR BIRD IS RACING AGAINST ONLY THOSE BIRDS ENTERED IN THAT POOL,as I recall the year that I was there the guy that won that pool(1,000). His bird was 15 minutes behind the bird that won the race.I will stop for now and will come back in a few days to talk about the Calcutter. I feel that many people that enter these races are looking to walk off with a sizeable piece of change. But in fact do not know what its all about.GEORGE

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SmithFamilyLoft

· #20 · May 18, 2009

Alamo said:
....So that`s what makes it gambling when you enter a money race...In horse racing,95% of the owners are racing horses for a living,and that`s why the entry fee`s are not considered wagering...Think about it for a minute.....Alamo

I think paying an "entry fee" to a college in the hope that the kid will get an education which will make a difference is a "gamble" also.

Perhaps you should have gone to law school, where such fine distinctions can be discussed in a class room setting. If you feel that such activity is "gambling" then perhaps you should write your state representative in your state, and have the law changed. As it stands in my state, entry fees to enter competition, does not fall under gaming laws.

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