Pigeon-Talk banner
1 - 20 of 112 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I have two feral pigeons, one was hand raised the other was cured after being hit by a car. Hand raised is about 6 months old and the other 4.

It all started with vomiting, they throw up undigested seed. Sometimes seed has a very bad smell, like rotting fish. Vomiting lasts for 2 days, just once in the morning, or maybe 2 times a day. Then birds get fluffed, appetite decreases, they don't want to move around all that much, but have active periods during the day. At the same time stool becomes a bit watery, just a narrow space of water around formed feces, but feces and urine are yellow, or green, grass green or darker. This lasts for 2-3 days and then all hell brokes loose! Birds becomes active, but has watery stool and when I say watery I am talking paramyxovirus watery! Its a big splash of water with little, thin feces usually dark green, grey green or light green in color. Pigeon that is older has this stage of disease, she flies out, returns, acts normals, comes down to food box, walks around the room, but leaves puddles of water behind her. This watery stage of the disease is raging for 6 days now. With the fisrt symptoms she was on enrofloxacin (Byatril) then we switched to norfloxacin (Sallmole tab from pantex) and she was on that for 4 days, I gave electrolytes, vitamins, and probiotics every day. I tried different food, seed mix, brown rice, a type of clay powder that helps remove toxins from the system, and she is still just splashing water, crazy amounts of water. Imagine a dog training pad soaked in a hour, dripping soaked. The younger pigeon got infected in 6 days from the start of watery poop in the first pigeon. I could not keep them apart, I cleaned the room after every poop, I had different food dishes, water dishes, places of sleeping, everything but he got this disease too. This morning he is fluffed, low appetite and those yellow poops. I gave them both doxycicline today. I've been going from vet to vet from the beginning of this and no one knows what it is. Please help me if you know what it could be. Is it psittacosis? can this be adeno, paramyxo, worms? I've been reading on the internet for the past 10 days and I have no clue.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
569 Posts
I read just the first lines, I would say treat for fungal issues like sour crop. Feed small amounts a few times a day for a few days.

Treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic like baytril for the what sounds like intestinal bacteria. Rest and low stress with added vitamins and mineral supplements for avians can help boost their health in the long run. Offer bathing as well and treat for any external parasites.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,396 Posts
Here is a link on sour crop (status) and treatments: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/cropstasissourcrop.htm

This can happen when bird is not warm enough when being fed also if food is not warm enough, crop PH is off, and also happens when getting too many medications and can even be caused by canker.

I would also suggest put a drop of organic apple cider vinegar in drinking water, if you haven't.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hello, they are both indoor. The pigeon that got sick first flies out and comes back. I feed them mixed seeds, several variations so they eat what they like, and all food is kept in my room, nice and warm, water also, I never give anything that is cold. I give them apple cider vinegar in drinking water 2 times a week and supervit (vitamins and trace element complex) once a week. I'm afraid this is not sour crop, as it is infectious. But thank you for your reply.

Btw these pigeons sleep in my bed, that is impossible now, but they are on one of the shelves, indoor, in nice heated room, I change their beds (dog training pads) each day. As for small meals they now eat just once a day, they hardly eat anything, the older pigeon that got sick first eats few times, but the amount of food has dropped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,494 Posts
From cases with similar symptoms (presently I'm struggling with an epidemy of this kind in my flock), I think they had a bacterial enteritis and crop candida. Presence of coccidiosis is not excluded as well so I would treat for all three, or at least for bacteria and candida.

The grass green or yellow green droppings are more serious and need injectable antibiotics. Lincomycin-spectinomycin is the best drug for this, if not available, then enrofloxacin. Diseasze advances very fast and if not given in time, even injectable antibiotics will become useless and the bird will die of sepsis.

For candida, nystatin, though recommnended on many pigeon webpages, it doesn't work.

Here I want to maker the paranthesis that on lot of webpages about pigeons is a lot of wrong information, because the informatyion there is from the experience of website owner but from what he read on other webpages. Wrong information can be found even on the most authoritative websites, nothing should be absolutised and blindly trusted.

So, for candida, the only thing I found to work (beside fluconazole, which is too toxic for depressed birds) is water with higher concentration of acv. The more acv the better, but not as much as to stress the bird. Taste it yourself and if is unbearable, decrease concentration below the point where you would drink it with a little discomfort, knowing that birds are far more sensitive than humans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,522 Posts
Could be viral... Doxycycline's kinda' hard on their intestinal tracts so they usually lose their appetites with that. Can you get your hands on a Trimethoprim-Sulfa antibiotic? I've seen several go through tons of water when they've got Coccidiosis and Trimethoprim-Sulfa will take care of that as well as being kind of easy on them.

Pidgey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,797 Posts
This could also be canker. It would smell like that, the urates can become yellow, a lot of water around the droppings because they don't eat much, but do drink a lot. And canker can cause sour crop because it can cause a blockage.

I would treat for 10 days with Baytril, or like Baytril, which you have already done, and I would treat for canker with Metronidazole. Could very likely be canker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,494 Posts
Can you post photos with the droppings? Yellow color in them means liver damage, but what causes liver damage can be a lot of things, from infectious diseases to toxicity from ingestion of chemicals, to worms, canker etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,797 Posts
Yes, you can do both at the same time, but he has already used the Norfloxin and Baytril.
Did you treat for 10 days with the antibiotic?
I would give Metro for 10 days and see how they are after the 10 days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There we have enrofloxacin as Mediflox, and it is stated in the instructions to give 3 days, after this they got 4 days of Sallmonela tab (norfloxacin) again as in instructions. The problem is that while giving these medication I had no improvement, it was only going from bad to worse.

I gave orni tab (doxicycline and spyramicine) yesterday and in the evening Roni tab (ronadizole) that covers cocci, hexamites and canker. The young pigeon has no appetite, I don't see that the poop is better, but he vomited just the big seeds he could not digest (dried pies). But the older pigeon that has been sick for longer had a vomiting spree. She vomited all from her crop and ended with some green water and even her last little stones she uses for digestion. She literary emptied her whole crop. I had her vomiting because of Ronadizole once before, so I think this could be it. I can try metronidazole on her and continue with this therapy on the younger. Can I give doxycicline, spyramicine and metronidazol together and if I can do I need to reduce dosage of one or the other?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,522 Posts
No need to give Metronidazole if you've already administered Ronidazole. Do you have a heat lamp that you can shine down on them to keep them warm (they have to be able to get out from under it).

They can get pretty bad like this from "hardware poisoning", too. That's where they swallowed something metal that either becomes a blockage or has a zinc coating like a staple. Only an X-Ray can tell on something like that but you usually wouldn't see two birds with the same basic symptoms.

Oh, yeah... and a bad worm infection (usually roundworms) can block them up, too. If they have a ravenous appetite and then throw up within a day or so, and then eat a ton more and then throw up again, all while losing weight... that's very often worms. Levamisole is the easiest one on them for that, but they'll wanna' throw up with that one, too.

Pidgey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
To one I can give ronidazole, but other vomits it, poor thing was vomiting like crazy and flying after every fit. It looked like some sort of violent vomiting because she was trying to escape from something while vomiting and ahe was shaking her whole body. So I am afraid to give her ronadizole again. After vomiting she looked very tired and I was afraid she will die. But today she is OK again, she ate nicely, even was flying for some time, then returned. The poop is with a lot of water and completely dissolved in to flecks, green, like peas. She is so skinny now, but strangely acts normal. But again I can see she is becoming more and more weak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Both are in my apartment so they are warm.

As for ingestion, one pigeon flies out and she became sick first but the other got infected in 9 days. He never left the room, he was on the balcony from time to time but not ready to fly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hello,

No, I did not take the x-ray. This is something infectious so one bird that never left the home also is sick, and it is impossible for that pigeon to eat or drink anything poisonous. I would not risk an x-ray now and stress them even more.

Sorry for answering slowly. I am working from home and constantly running of my chair because one of the pigeons wants to change the place they are resting and I need to move all dog training pads so they don't poop on the carpet or my bed.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
569 Posts
Hello,

No, I did not take the x-ray. This is something infectious so one bird that never left the home also is sick, and it is impossible for that pigeon to eat or drink anything poisonous. I would not risk an x-ray now and stress them even more.

Sorry for answering slowly. I am working from home and constantly running of my chair because one of the pigeons wants to change the place they are resting and I need to move all dog training pads so they don't poop on the carpet or my bed.
If you want to move forward and know what medicines they need a veterinarian can check a fecal sample and a crop smear to determine what kind and how much and how long of the medicines you need to use to help the birds. Doing this over the Internet with opinions from guessing from non-veterinarians, (me included), is not the best choice.
 
1 - 20 of 112 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top