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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hiya

I wonder if any of you folks could offer me some advice.

The missus save a pigeon from a kitten yesterday. I think it went into shock. There's no blood and doesn't look particularly mangled although I do suspect an injured wing.

I put him in our spare bathroom which is dark and warm, he didn't move an inch until this morning.. When I checked on him at about 6:30 he was facing the other way that I left him. We managed to force feed some water mixed with fish food and gradually he started to show interest and took a little by himself. There's plenty of food water for him but i've not seen him take anything.

He is moving about now a little, rolling his head quite a bit, don't know if that's cuz he's unsure of his surroundings or there's somethin a bit wrong with him. He did give me a few pecks but they weren't particularly well aimed.

I checked him for tumors in his mouth and it looks ok... under his wings seem ok to me but then i dont know what to look for really. I tried encouraging him to spread his wings by gently throwing him up then letting him drop while still supporting him. He kind of tried but failed.

Any advice on getting this fella up n flying again will be receive with most gratitude.

Thanks
Lee
 

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Hi

Thanks for taking him in :)

What he needs initially I think he is getting: quiet, warmth and sustenance. A good liquid is slightly warm water with added glucose or honey or sugar, plus salt. The mix is the equivalent of 1 litre water, 1 tablespoon glucose, honey or sugar, and 1 teaspoon of salt. Just a small pot of this is fine. For food, ideally seeds (wild bird seed is OK), but if he is not able to eat well himself he can be hand fed with peas and/or sweetcorn from a frozen pack, thawed briefly with hot water and fed one at a time directly into the back of the mouth.

If you could post a pic, that would help get an idea if he is a youngster or an adult and if he is a feral or a woodpigeon (I assume feral from where you posted).

If he was caught by the kittie, he should really have an antibiotic - Synulox (normally supplied for dogs) aka Noroclav aka Kesium. Un fortunately that is a prescription vet medicine.

If you let us know whereabouts you are, there may be a rescue center or someone we know of who could help (no guarantee of course).

If you have facebook, there's a (mainly) UK group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/

There is a list of UK rescue places here:

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/rescuecentres.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi John ..thanks for that.

i'm actually streaming him on USTREAM so ican keep an eye while in the lounge. Yoi can find it by searching 'injured pigeon' on ustream ... although quality is poos because of low light.

he's just been doing a few mad circles ... not for the first time.

I'm in Rhyl. N/Wales.

There is a girl a few miles away who runs an avian rescue and we have been talking to her too.

I'll do as you said regarding the food/water.

He's a light brown/white colour. I'll put a little light on him for half hour in case you look at the stream.thanks again
 

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From the symptoms, the circling, missing his aim, green poops, rolling his head, it looks like paratyphoid or PMV. Are the poops diarrheish or worm-like in a pool of water?

I suggest to get hold of baytril, and treat for 10 days. You get it as tablets or liquid, and dosage will depend on what you have. For 10% baytril (enrofloxacin) solution, the dosage is 3 drops twice a day. Before food.
Until he is able to pick feed on his own, you need to feed him. I don't know if fish food is good for pigeons. You can feed him defrosted green peas. Make sure he is also drinking well. You can dip the tip of his beak (take care not to dip the nostrils) into a shallow dish of water and see if he drinks.
Good luck, and thanks for rescuing him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks kunju

we have a vet friend, hopefully she will be able to help re PMV.

At the moment he has a bowl of soaked seeds, the water mix that john described and the remainder of the remainder of the peas that i just gave him.

I managed to put 3 peas and about 5ml of liquid down his beak .... i've now idea how much/Often i should be feeding.

My plan was to leave him now until morning ...or should i feed him up as much as poss.

Just confirmed that we can get some powder antibiotics tonight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ok an update on this little fella

I got some doxycycline from our vet friend.

After reading around the forum and other places I also realised that i'm going to have to make a real effort in getting more food/water into him but i'm finding it difficult. Just managed another 8 peas and nearly a syringe full of water (and a touch of honey) plus the antibiotics.

She told us to give him a "small pinch" a day for seven days and recommended liquified digestives and boiled egg yolk.

We're real noobs at this and I worry about the stress we're putting him through by force feeding
:(
 

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To force-feed, wrap him in a towel so that he cannot move his legs or wings. Only his head should stick out. Gently open the beak and place a pea and let him swallow. You need to give him atleast 20 peas, thrice a day (total of 60 peas) to start with. You can increase the number to 30 or 40 in the coming weeks.
I agree it is quite stressful to force-feed a pigeon who is not used to human touch, and are actually terrified by human presence. It will surely get better with time, as he gets used to you, and to his new environment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks kunju, i'll try the towel

I've just bought some egg meal from the pet store which i'm mixing with water.. it also has small seeds in it which can pass through the syringe we're using so i've decided to feed him this as it's a much more efficient and a faster way of getting water and nutrients into him and also a vehicle for the meds.

Please let me know if you think the pea method would be better.:confused:

Just got nearly 3 5mil syringes full of this mix into him in about 2 mins. Do you think this would be sufficient for him thrice daily or should we give him more?
 

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With a syringe, there is a slight chance of aspiration, which could be dangerous and even lead to death. Weak and semi-conscious birds should never be syringe-fed, but your bird is alert enough and so the danger is less, but the risk is there nevertheless.
With green peas, you cannot go wrong. Just place the defrosted green peas, one at a time, into his beak, and let him swallow. Do not force the pea down his throat. Let him swallow on his own. He will struggle less as days pass by, as he comes to understand that you mean no danger to him.
So, in my opinion, the peas are much better...safe and perhaps not as messy as syringe-feeding.
As long as you are getting some 20 decent poops out of him, it means he is getting enough. Also take care to place water only in a shallow dish, say an inch deep. PMV pigeons are known to drown in water bowls because they don't have control over neck and head movements.
Haven't heard of doxycycline being used to treat paratyphoid. ???
Baytril is the drug of choice for paratyphoid. If not available, you can use amoxicillin.
You can check his wings/legs...for lumps or boils- another possible symptom of paratyphoid. Are the poops runny, or worm-like in a pool of water?
 

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I think we need to consider the symptoms rather than jump to conclusions. It is often difficult if not impossible to be sure on the internet, and I would strongly advise against pointing people towards any specific medication based on what 'we think' it 'could be'.

If we look at the symptoms here, then we are seeing something that is not part of the Paratyphoid set - the turning in circles, also missing what he aims at. These are certainly classic PMV symptoms.

If someone just posts and says their bird is unable to fly and twists his head round then, agreed, could be PMV or Paratyphoid (or even something else, depending on the exact movement the rescuer is seeing). A bird with that form of Paratyphoid, which is more often fatal than other forms, is not going to be very mobile and probably not very interested in feeding. A PMV case, however, is more likely to be still trying to behave like a 'normal' pigeon.

Green poops can mean something or very little of concern, aside from 'starvation poop' which is pretty much just bile. Any problem of enteritis, severe or sub-clinical, can produce nasty looking poop. Paratyphoid of the enteritis form (the most common form) does, and PMV can also affect the digestive system. In fact, the so-called PMV poops of worms of dropping in water are often the first sign, and have mostly changed by the time the bird is incapacitated by other more obvious symptoms.

If PMV is a reasonable suspect, then whoever may take the bird in (rescue centre, etc.) needs to be aware that the bird must be isolated for a good 6 weeks and may not lose all the neurological symptoms. That is why so many places will not accept pigeons with (possible) PMV or, if they discover it, may PTS the bird. Vets almost as a matter of course often PTS a pigeon showing PMV symptoms.

It is unfortunate that there have been people on here in the past who have tried to insist that lots of illnesses produce neurological symptoms, so one doesn't know that a particular bird has PMV. Well, that's just missing the point. The term 'neurological symptoms' in itself doesn't tell you much of anything. Kinda like going to the store and asking for 3 kilos of 'fruit'. The storekeeper will want to know precisely which fruit you want :) Same with an illness - different illnesses can have different combinations of symptoms, and not all symptoms are present in all illnesses. That is the case with an illness where there is some demonstration of (possibly) neurological symptoms. They have to be quite specifically looked at to make a judgement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks again chaps. More for me to think about there:D

Someone we're speaking to believes that the spinning/disorientation is the result of a head injury/fluid around the ears. Although she's only seen a video, however she does deal with sick birds every day.

I think i'll have to ditch the feeding by syringe then as I fear I don't have the skills or knowledge to avoid the risks aspiration. I just find it difficult enough getting his beak open once never mind 60 odd times a day. Really hoping he starts feeding himself soon.

6 weeks? That's a long undertaking but it he does start feeding himself soon it'll make it much easier.

We think that today he's better than yesterday. More lively but less head rolling and spinning. Still missing his pecks.

Funny thing is when I open the door (he's in a small spare en suit bathroom) he pretty much comes straight over to me to peck at me but if I put my hand down he'll happily climb on and even nod off:D Can't work out if he likes or hates me.
 

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He sounds quite a human friendly little fella.

Could even be a hen who thinks Mr Giant Pigeon would be a good provider :) I had one in my flat who built nests for me in my favourite armchair, presumably so I could do nesting duty!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
He sounds quite a human friendly little fella.

Could even be a hen who thinks Mr Giant Pigeon would be a good provider :) I had one in my flat who built nests for me in my favourite armchair, presumably so I could do nesting duty!
:D ..that's hilarious!

Apparently 'he' is a she.. at least that's what i'm told. So little Trevor's had a monikerectomy ..now known as Flo :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Further improvement today I think... only marginal though.

I beginning to improve my feeding technique and she's starting to cooperate more. I've found that if i hold the beaks tip with my right hand then reach around with my left and gently pinch where the beak starts whilst encouraging her to lift her head up she'll open up for me.

With some patience the missus actually got her to take a few peas off her hand... took a while and a lot of missing but it was encouraging to see a few go in. We reckon we can gauge her improvement by daily noting how well she manages to take food from our hands.

She had her 3rd dose of antibiotics today. When should I expect them to really kick in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Kunjun...

Yes her poops have been watery with green wormish blobs in. At first I just noticed dry fluorescent like marks on the paper but fresh one have been as described.

Today however there have been flecks of white and even a dry mark in her bed that appears all white.

I just had her sitting in my left hand with a handfull of moist egg meal in my left and she definitely wants it, she has trouble getting it.. i'll try to post a video later
 

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Glad she is doing much better. Agree with John D, does look more like PMV. The poops, the 'otherwise healthy' behavior, and missing seeds. If it is PMV, the antibiotics are not going to help, as PMV is a virus. But you can still complete the antibiotic course, to be on the safe side.
Encourage her to pick seeds on her own, and gradually, perhaps after a month, she will be able to pick on her own. Till then, continue with the force-feeding.
6 weeks is the time you need to keep the bird in isolation, away from other birds to prevent spread of infection. With proper support, she can pull through this without a problem. PMV can affect the brain, causing the head twisting and walking in circles. Also messes up their ability to fly sometimes. So, whether she will be able to fly in future, only time will tell. Let's hope for the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Also messes up their ability to fly sometimes. So, whether she will be able to fly in future, only time will tell. Let's hope for the best.
Thanks again for the supportive replies. They really do help a great deal.

I haven't mentioned it yet .. .one thing at a time and all that, but her left wing is a little dropped.. i'm just hoping that it's a healable injuru and nothing serious.
 
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