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Discussion Starter #1
G'Day folk. I would like to introduce Chook the Pigeon to you, because I need some help to help him a little more. (I am assuming Chook is a "he", because he growls but doesn't Coo or make other sounds.) My second post has the request for help.

This is Chook, supervising some gardening at my place, in Melbourne, Australia.


We called him "Chook" because my partner doesn't like "flying rats". That's my partner in the photo above. By calling him Chook, he has been reclassified as no longer a flying rat. Since Chook has been de-liced, my partner has handled, and even developed feelings for Chook, for which I am in a lot of trouble. Obviously the reclassification of Chook from flying rat hasn't been completely forgotten.

Chook came to me on March 17 2010, nearly fourteen weeks ago. He walked down my side path, passed me while I worked in the garage. I thought it was a bit strange that he just walked by, since I was making quite some noise. So I went over to check him out, and when he didn't fly away I herded him into the back corner of my garage, and finished the work I was doing. He inspected the garage, but made no serious attempt to leave, and settled down to sit in the corner and wait for me to go away.

I bought him some water soon after, but he didn't touch it. A couple of hours later I made a cardboard wall to put around him, so that I could inspect him and make sure he didn't injure himself in the garage, or wander off when I left it. He was obviously in need of assistance. When I brought him some Black-Oil Sunflower seeds that we had for wild birds, he didn't growl or try to get away, and even fed from my hand. Hence our current relationship started: I provide the food and shelter, he eats the food, makes a mess with his poops, and enjoys the safety of my protection. Neat for him, but I would love for him to be able to fly again, and be an indepedent bird.

Once Chook (un-named at the time, but I was thinking of "Paco", until the flying rat issue came up) had settled down properly I gave him a thorough inspection. He had no blood on him or broken skin, and I could not find any broken bones. In fact, the only marks on him were a slight ruffling of the feathers in two spots on his left side. One on his back, the other on his chest. He could flap his right wing, but not his left, and made no attempt to do so. I could stretch out both wings, but doing so to the left seemed to cause him some discomfort. Although he didn't like me doing it to the right wing either. I checked all of his wing bones very carefully, and could find no break or significant swelling. His left elbow (between the Humerus and Radius/Ulna) did seem a little large, but not much different to the right side.

My conclusion was that one of my neighbours small dogs had got hold of him, and that the ruffled feathers were where its teeth had hold. Therefore I thought that he may just have had soft tissue damage of the wing muscles, or perhaps some shoulder damage. Or he was just old and worn out.

Considering his state of indifference to me, I think he may have been living out in my back yard for a while, and had only wandered out when he got very hungry. Since there is quite a bit of long grass that had gone to seed in the yard, and cover from preditors, I thought a pigeon could live there for quite a while without starving or being attacked.

Given that Chook is just a feral pigeon (forgive me), I wasn't going to take him to a vet for an X-ray or treatment. But I thought I would give him a little comfort in what seemed to be his last days, while allowing him to remain a wild pigeon. Well that didn't work out!

I moved him to the back verandah for a week, feeding him on wild bird mix and the sunflower seeds. During that week I also moved him out on to the grass in my East side backyard, with a wire screen over the top of his open air box to protect him from predators. Just as well, because a family of magpies thought he would make a good feed, and sat on the wire for hours trying to work out how to get in. He thrived, but his wing didn't get any better, and he made no attempt to use it.

The following week I let him out of his box every day, and put him back at night. I figured that if he was taken by a predator, he had at least had a chance to get better, and perhaps get away. We don't really have hawks around here, but the Magpies and Crows will kill him if they can. He wasn't going anywhere.

So the next week I made a covered cardboard box for him, with a small door at front. I started opening it every morning for him, and closing it once he was back in at night. That box has been insulated and waterproofed a bit since so that he has a warm and dry place to hide and roost, since it is Winter here. I put a piece of rough wood in the box for him to perch on, and he loves it. Originally his box sat on the back verandah, but we have since moved it to a protected spot in the garden, not far from the verandah. Chook loved having his box next to the back door, under the cover of the verandah, and took a little while to get used to having it in the garden. But now he knows that is his home, and he seeks it out when trouble (Magpies and Crows) is about. Here he is in his box. Note the drooping left wing.


He has since had another run in with a different small neighbourhood dog ( I saved him, and he was grateful, sitting quietly in my arms while I introduced him to the dogs owner), been stalked by a cat who used to think it owned my backyard (but now seems to have been disposed of by his owners), and I even found a different cat sitting next to him on the back verandah, grooming herself, while Chook stood bolt upright and frozen stiff less than a metre away. It seems it just isn't his time, so I have a pet broken pigeon in my life. Well, our lives, since my partner now loves the little fellow.

Since he was staying I got a spray to kill the lice he had. His left wing had a lot of lice on it, particularly under the wing. I did wonder if they could have been the cause of his problems. Someone may care to comment.

We worried about Chook a little as he was hiding in his box all the time except when he was eating and drinking. So we "encouraged" him to come around to the West side backyard while we worked in redeveloping the vegetable garden. Once again, he loved it, picking a post to sit on and watch us. He worked out that we wouldn't let him go back to his box while we were working (although he tried all sorts of ways to get passed us), and we worked out when he wanted to go back to eat or get water, or when he thought it was bed time. Meanwhile, he did a regular inspection of the garden bed we were digging, and even occasionally scrounged around and found something to eat.

During the first week we took him out gardening he really wanted to fly up to the roof, looking up there a lot, and bouncing up and down preparing to take off. I only saw him try to take off twice, and his left wing did nothing, so he crashed onto the ground. When he first came to us, it took Chook and few weeks, and many hard landings, to work out that he could no longer even jump down from more than chair height off the ground without hurting himself. One of those attempts was from 2.5 metres onto concrete, which at least taught him not to try big heights again.

Chook now loves to walk around to my West side back yard and bask in the sun during the day. Although he seems to prefer sitting on the back verandah on the East side just as much in the last week. I actually think Chook was half of a pair of pigeons that regularly visited my West side back yard. I haven't seen them for some time, and Chook appeared from there, so it is a reasonable assumption. We leave Chook to fend for himself during the day, and we will both let nature take its course if something gets him at some time. Of course, if that happens I will be in trouble with my partner, but those are the risks I must take.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Introductions over, this is the help I need

So, on to the help I need.
Chooks left wing does droop down a fair bit. Originally it scraped on the ground quite a bit, but now it seems to sit up off the ground most of the time. He doesn't seem to stand on it or get his flight feathers caught between his legs anymore. Here is an early picture of his left side:


This is a more recent picture:


There are some more pictures over here.

Finally, the reason for this post is that I suspect that Chook may just have a dislocated shoulder. He flaps his right wing vigorously in the mornings, and can now move his left wing away from his body a centimetre or so, as well as lift the front and rear away to preen his feathers. He can flex his "fingers" out when he wants to, although he only does this when he is on a high perch, so that the feathers don't hit the ground. His elbow seems to have full movement. While his right shoulder rotates up, either when he is flapping, or when I try to exercise it, his left shoulder will not rotate up. It hurts him if I try, though he doesn't make noise. He just starts shaking and trying to pull away.

Basically, he seems to be getting more movement in the wing, but not much. I would like to know if there is any way to confirm if his shoulder is dislocated, other than taking him to a vet. If it can be confirmed, can I relocated his shoulder for him?

I realise that I may just have missed a break to the Humerus in the initial examination, but if there was one I suspect it was already healed before he came out of the backyard and was found, so there was no point taking him to a vet then to check. While the cost of feeding him for the next ten years may outweigh the cost of a vet visit, I still don't plan to pay good money for a feral pigeon . . . unless maybe if there is a real chance that his shoulder can be relocated and he can fly free again.

Thanks for reading my long posts, and for any advice you can give.
 

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not sure if there's much you can do, but pigeons can climb ladders and still live their preferred lifestyle messing around up high.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm not sure there is anything I can do either. But I thought I should at least ask here.

The trouble is, he has had a few falls already where he has landed on his bad wing and has been unable to right himself. If that happens, he tries for a while, and then just lays there until someone finds him and picks him up. Once he was out in the rain, probably for a while, so it isn't very pleasant for him. Not to mention risky. Often these falls happen when he is just trying to hop up a step. Nothing large.

Anyway, we'll see if anyone has any ideas.
 

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Hi and welcome, RoderickGI! Enjoyed reading your post. I have news for you! You've been taken in by a pigeon! Doesn't matter that he is a feral, esp that he is a feral, he needs your care and protection or will meet an untimely end. If you and your partner take him in, he will more than repay your kindness with love and brightened days!
 

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Hi RoderickGI,


Lovely Pigeon you have!


Broken Wing Bones can mend in the wild as the Bird manages to muddle on and find forrage and water and so on. Often though, they do not mend well or quite straight under those conditions.

Wings which have broken Bones, which are set by a Veterinarian or other practioner in a timely way, may or may not mend well or right either, and, in either case, can sometimes heal in a way where a Joint fuses or over-blooms with new Bone material, so the Joint will no longer flex, making for what some call a Frozen Wing.

Pigeons having such a Wing can indeed end up sometimes laying on that side, and, they may or may not work out methods of getting themselves righted again.

So, when we have such Pigeons, we just have to check on them now and then through out the Day, to see if they have gotten 'stuck' on their side someplace.


As you have found, Pigeons make wonderful companions, they are smart, often clever, and, some individuals are in fact very sociable and like to be in on whatever we are doing.

It seems this Pigeon elected you, and hoped you would over see his care during his period of compromise...where he decided to trust his apprise of you and your scene, to see if both might be willing to include him.

If the Wing will not anymore extend or flex, it is probably a 'Frozen Wing', and as far as I know, will likely remain that way.

He may never quite except it being that way, and, in moments of excitement or desire, he may continue to try and take off, where, the one Good Wing then will whirl him around, so he ends up laying on the Bad Wing.

That is how my Frozen Wing ones are, though some learned not to bother trying to take off anymore, and or also learned to resolve the laying-on-their-side issue, so they are able to right themselves on their own, when that happens.




Phil
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Discussion Starter #7
Hi and welcome, RoderickGI! Enjoyed reading your post.
Thanks. I've been lurking around here for a while, since Chook arrived, learning more about pigeons. I was pleased to find that I had done all the right things initially with him. I did try and make the story a little interesting. :)

Lovely Pigeon you have!
*laughing*. Well he was. He started moulting on his head and back of the neck about a week ago. He was quite a little baldy for a few days there! He now has new pin feathers coming in and will be back to his fine self soon, I'm sure. A strange time to moult, I thought, since we just had the Winter Solstice here in Australia.

Thanks for the information about "frozen wing" and sharing your experiences with it. I was really hoping that Chook would at least get enough use of the wing that he could flap up to and down from small heights. Mainly so that he was more independent and safer. As he is and will continue to be an outside bird, he needs to be pretty mobile. A walking pigeon is slow, and an easy target.

Chook has amused and entertained us no end since coming to stay.

At first we thought he was deaf as he seemed not to hear quite loud sounds. But he hears specific sounds that indicate a potential threat quite well. So I can be sawing wood with a power saw no more than a couple of metres from him, and that is fine, but if a gum nut falls on the roof of the verandah, he is off and hiding somewhere!

He has also done some really dumb things, getting himself stuck somewhere, or jumping from heights. But he has also shown a surprising intelligence quite often.

He is not the most social of birds, but if caught can be convinced to sit on my knee, arm or shoulder, although he tends to wants jump down if I walk with him on me. When he sees me come outside, he will often run toward me, then realise what he is doing and stop at a distance. It used to be around 2 metres, but now he is happy to loiter about 1 metre away. If he really wants to get somewhere he will walk right past me, or between my legs, without any concerns.

It was very touching when he decided to follow me into the house when I left the sliding door open. He then proceeded to inspect several rooms while I watched on. He knows the sliding door is where I come and go from, and where he can do the same, and loves to sit in the sun next to the door.

So I agree, he isn't a bad little pet . . . except for all the poops he leaves everywhere! I guess I can live with that.

I'm just wondering how he will get on with a couple of Rhodesian Ridgebacks pups we plan to get in a year or so . . . :eek:
 

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Poor little guy. It really isn't safe to leave him outside, especially unattended. The best would be to bring him inside, buy him a cage that he can relax in while you are not home.
The cage doesn't need to to be huge but pigeons do prefer one that is long rather than tall...30" long x 18" wide x18" tall is perfect. Pigeons like flat surfaces to perch on rather than round ones and so a shelf across one end, low enough so he can jump up on it and high enough so you can put his food and water dish underneath, would be perfect. Pigeons also seem to enjoy a brick on the floor of the cage to roost.
Did you know that Bonnie Birds makes custom diaper for pigeons?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It really isn't safe to leave him outside, especially unattended.
Well that was a timely warning that I should have taken notice of. Yesterday, after three months of (relatively) safely living outside, with the protection of his box, it seems that Chook was caught in the open by some Magpies. Probably two young fledglings that have recently been left to the own resources by their parents, and who returned to the scene about midday today.

It looks likes Chook was heading back to his box after feeding on the verandah, probably around midday. He must have gotten a large fright, because I found a huge poop on the path he takes. Large enough to suspect that he evacuated his complete bowel. It looks like he then made a run for his box, was caught on the way as evidenced by some feathers, then got away and into his box where he stayed until we found him around 4 pm. I was home but didn't hear a thing all day, so the Magpies must have been serious about the hunt.

My partner found him after coming home from work, and was most upset.

He has a couple of large gashes in his head, which bled quite a lot, matting his new pin feathers together. We cleaned him up thoroughly and he seems okay now, eating, drinking, pooping and preening as usual. But it is going to take a while for his injuries to heal up, and he may never be as pretty as he was. I'll be watching closely for any signs of infection or illness, but the cuts all look clean and dry for now. They are deep though, so I'm hoping that they will close over properly.

He had actually been a bit reluctant to cross the path from the verandah to his box in the garden for the previous four nights, so maybe he knew the Magpies were around and had a bead on him. On Tuesday night when we got home well after dark he was still sitting next to the back door, dozing.

He'll be an inside bird until he is healed properly, and then we will need to work out how to manage the little fellow.

I would guess that 'Pups' would be his end, and, promptly...
If and when we get pups, if Chook is still around he will be fine. He won't be left alone with them, and the pups will be taught to leave him alone, as he is part of the family.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Adendum:
I checked Chook over again yesterday and found and injury under his right wing which I missed on Wednesday. I had noted a bit of a mark there, but I thought it was just transfered blood from his other injuries. In fact when I cleared away the feathers he had quite a bad pecking injury there.

This explains his other injuries a bit better, as it means that he was on his back, stuck on his bad left wing. He may have fallen and couldn't get up, so the Magpies thought he would be an easy kill, or he may have fallen over on the bad wing when attacked. He does tend to fall if he hurries to hop up or down steps and the like, which he needed to do to get into his box.

The good news is that his wounds look good today. They are dry and closing up well, with no sign of infection. He is still eating, drinking, and pooping well, and is pretty happy all around in his indoors enclosure. Particularly because it has a central heater vent in there, which he likes to sit near to keep warm.

It looks like he is going to be okay. :)
 

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When he gets stuck like that, gently 'roll' him onto his Good Wing side...and he will then right himself easily.

With practice of you initiating the maneuver, he may learn to do it himself.
 

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. . . and now Chicky

Well Chooky healed up well and is a beautiful pigeon again. See pics of major injuries and Chooky recovered below. He has been living inside since the attack, so he is definitely a "Hom..ing" pigeon now.

He holds his left wing up well now, usually as well as his right. He seems to have developed some new muscles across his back to achieve that, muscles that aren't apparent on the other side. His left wing only hangs down when he is climbing up things, or having a flap on the floor, or similar activities now. Chooky still can't fly much. In fact, he doesn't so much fly as flap down off things, if they aren't too high. He can fly a couple of metres horizontally from one metre height though, and he has some directional control, so that is a big improvement.

Anyway Chooky seemed to be getting a bit lonely and "disturbed" so we kept a look out for another injured pigeon. My partner found and rescued what appears to be a young blue bar homing pigeon from outside a carpark at work on March 18. The poor thing has damaged its left "wrist" and so has a hanging left wing. We didn't know how long it had been injured, but strapped it up anyway, as best we could. That lasted for a bit over a week, because the as yet unnamed pigeon kept pulling the wrapping off and slipping its wing forward under the wrap. In the end I took it off and left it to heal as well as it will. There was no bleeding and no obvious broken bones, just swelling of the joint. The bird seems quite young, and we have since formed the opinion that it is very young. It was also extremely dirty from all the traffic that entered and left the carpark. It was basically trying to hide in a corner at the car park entrance, and my partner said based on the volume of poops had been there a while.

The new pigeon survived for the required two weeks to earn a name, and since we hope "she" is a female, I named her Chick, or Chicky, depending if she is being good. During that time I treated both birds for worms, lice and canker, and gave them some probiotics to give them a boost. Chicky seemed to have a little canker when she arrived, but it started to clear up before I treated her, probably due to her improved diet. I kept her isolated for two weeks.

Once he was allowed near her, Chook took a great deal on interest in Chicky, of the amorous kind. But he was far too persistent in his chase, and tried to corner her and hold her down by biting the fleathers at the back of her neck, so we kept them separate until she was more recovered. Recover she did, eating very well, and settling into a space I made in our laundry. She loved it.

Apparently her wing isn't too bad, because on April 16th she was outside on the verandah with Chooky when a local cat tried to catch them. Chicky flew up to the banister, and when I went out to save Chooky, she flew away, out of sight. We couldn't find her anywhere so thought she would go back where she came from. But no, on April 18th while working in the family room at dusk with the light on, I looked up and there was Chicky walking up to the door, where she waited to be let in. She must have seen me inside due to the light. I opened the door and stood aside, and she walked right in, back to the laundry and had a big feed and drink. Apparently she likes her new home. In fact, she isn't much fussed about going outside at all, unlike Chooky who loves to get out to explorer, play, taste the weeds, and so on.

In the last couple of weeks I've let Chooky into the laundry as well, and after a period of him asserting his ownership of all spaces in the house and all food sources, with lots of chasing around the house, cooing and wooing, they now seem to have settled down into a friendship. In fact, Chooky's wooing has changed to more moan like cooing, wing shaking, head bowing, and subservient placing of his head under Chicky's chest or butt. He has also started feeding her, which I know males do for their mates, but I suspect is because Chicky is very young. In fact, Chicky could still be just a very young male that Chooky has accepted as a friend or companion.

They now spend most of their time together, and a lot of that time Chooky is Oora, oora, oora cooing to Chicky, especially if we are making noise or are nearby. The laundry is out of bounds again, and Chicky lives in Chooky's spaces, including the boxes he sleeps on or in. She prefers in, and climbs up to the box when she is ready for sleep at night.

There have been no eggs found yet, although there are three places that Chooky seems to be trying to set up a nest. We are hoping that Chicky is a girl, and we might see a couple (but not too many) baby pigeons at some time. I have a 4x2x2 cage under construction outside, rather than a coop, and they will move out when I have built enough shelters to place inside. We need our family room back, not to mention that Chooky thinks the whole hoouse is his to explore!

Anyway. I just thought I would share progress. I was going to post a thread asking for assistance to sex Chicky, but after reading some more threads on the subject, I think we will just have to wait and see.

One question perhaps: I assume that the wing shaking and head bowing that goes along with the Oora, Oora cooing means that some mating is possible at some time? Of concern is that while Chooky is usually the one doing this, Chicky does shake a wing, bow her head, and even coo a very little bit sometimes, usually when she wants to be fed. Comment?
 

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Glad to hear all is well even with some adventures and close calls.

If they are a mated pair, they will decide a Nesting place which both can access, and, begin gathering Nesting Materials for it, with whoever is the Male doing most of the material gathering and preseneting the items to the approval of the sitting Hen.

If there are to be Eggs, they will occur a couple weeks or so after these activities of Nest building.

My non-flying ones here ( whom I affectionatly call the 'Floor Birds' ) usually make their Nests in corners or along a wall somewhere, or even right in a doorway, where, I have to carefully step over them every time I walk through.

The male in effect offers to the Hen what ever the amenities happen to be of his Territory.

She then decides the spot for the Nest, if accepting his offering.

Has Chook gotten any better at righting himself, if having fallen on to his old bad Wing?


Phil
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Discussion Starter #15
Yes Chook has more power in his left wing now, and can right himself without trouble. In fact, I haven't seen him fall on his bad wing for quite a while, not even when he is running from danger. If his wing didn't get stuck at the horizontal I suspect he could fly, but no amount of physio has improved his ability to lift his wing.

Chook does pick up nesting material when he is outside, but he usually just picks it up and throws it down. I haven't seen him present any to Chick. But then, there isn't much materials inside, although I provide two schredded paper "nests" for them. They have decided they like one of those, and Chook has made a hollow in the nest, so maybe he has picked that site. Mind you, it isn't where I wanted them to nest, but my partner put it there because there is a heater outlet there. The birds do love to sit on a heater vent! Both nests are on a vent, and they found one other under a sofa, which they like to hide under.

We are just going to have to keep an eye out for eggs to appear I guess. :) . . . of course if they lay now, I won't be able to move them to the outside cage. Bummer. :(
 

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Are these two a mated pair, or just good friends?

So are these two a mated pair, or just good friends?

Nest building 101: How to attract a mate, or are they just good friends?

Chooky has spent most of the day under my desk, in fact under my legs, and scratching around trying to dig a nest in my rug, with Chicky in tow. He even found the darkest corner in the cupboard here and called Chicky in to join him.

When not under my desk, he has been leading Chicky around the house looking for better spots. She pretty much follows him everywhere now. He is on my desk preening her right now, and she is making little appreciative sounds. She is molting, with lots of pin feathers on her head.

If they aren't mated, then they are very good friends, and if she isn't female, Chooky must have no particular preference! No physical mating observed so far though.
 

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I do not see any items which they have brought to the Nest, far as the usual Broom Straws, Twigs, small Plant Stems, slender Leaves, disused Flight Feathers, and so on.


I might be wrong, but, this looks like two Males to me, who for want of Hens, and, being good and easy Pals, are enacting a sort of 'as if' kinda thing...but, of course, it is missing some key elements ( ie: any Hens).

Time for a third rescue I think!

( Which of course, may end up being another Male! - or, a Hen! )
 

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Discussion Starter #18
There are a few feathers in there, and I haven't really allowed them access to other stuff to put into the nest. When they go outside the door is closed, so they can't come and go collecting nesting material.

Maybe I'll make some available and see if they try to use it.




But I think you might be right, and we have two males. . . oh well, at least we won't get too many eggs then!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
But I think you might be right, and we have two males. . . oh well, at least we won't get too many eggs then!
Well, maybe not. Based on your last post I provided access to old flight and tail feathers Chook and Chick had dropped, plus a pile of pine needles. The picture below shows what they did with them. The first pine needles were put into the nest the same day they were provided, and more keep getting added.

I moved the nest from the traffic areas and into a box that has always been in Chooky's living area. They seem to have adapted to that no problems. When it is cold both suggle up in there.

Chicky follows Chooky around everywhere all the time, and if Chicky is out of Chooky's sight he gets most agitated and starts looking for her frantically. So if we pick up either and cuddle them, they have to be in sight of the other or they won't sit still. It appears that whether they are male and female or not, they are bonded.

Chicky's poops have also turned a brick red, and are a bit dry, which is due to the grit stone that they have access to. She has been eating lots of it, as evidenced by the pecking away of the block, and her poops. Chooky never took much notice of the grit block before Chicky was around, and I don't think he pecks it much now. This would imply that Chicky is female, and expecting to need lots of calcium for eggs.

The nest has one of the birds sitting on it almost constantly during the day, although they take breaks. At night they still get up to sleep on their roosting site. There has been a lot of mounting and rubbing bits together, and Chooky, who is always on top, has now worked out how to do it without falling off due to his bad wing. Chicky seems to be the instigator of these mating events. So, if an egg or two do turn up, they are likely to be fertilised.

Chick is very young we suspect. The rings around her eyes were dark when she arrived, like her feathers, but now are getting quite light. That seems to be an ageing/maturing change. If so any eggs may be her first, so it may take a while to get the macinery going.

Anyway, it has still only been a week or so since they started seriously trying to mate, and at first Chook just fell off. So it may be a while yet before we see any eggs, if at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well, all questions are answered. Chicky laid an egg last night. A big one for a bird her size!

Not in the nice nest they built though. Obviously that was, in the end, too close to the ground. So Chicky laid the egg where I originally intended them to nest, in the nesting box I built, which is a bit over a metre off the floor.

So no twigs, no padding, and a slatted floor that allows the breeze in. Silly birds.

Questions:
Can I move the nest they built into the nest box, and put the egg in it, without the birds disowning the egg?
Should I?

Chicky on the pirch mounted to their nesting box.
 

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