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I'm starting this thread for Landy ([email protected]). She contacted me this morning by PM regarding her 10 day old baby who's having some problems. I don't have the experience she needs and am hoping someone who does can respond. All I could think of to recommend is supplemental heat and probiotics. Thanks!

(From Landy) I've got a 10 day old who is the size of a 5 day old. As of his nightly feeding last night he refused dinner and pecked at me as if I were hurting him. He was quite all night, I feared looking at him this morning. He is OK, hungry now and ate. My biggest concern is when he eats he puffs up with air. He gets so big it looks as if it is about to pop. There are a ton more factors to this little guys life,that might be the reasons he is the way he is.
 

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Terri/Landy,
Does the food move through the little guy or is his system sluggish? The circumstances as to why he might be the way he is would possibly be helpful information to know.
 

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Yes it does seem to be sluggish. And if things arn't bad enough, I think he might have splayed legs. I found him out from his mom cold and on the brink of death twice. He's in house now on heat and katee formula. What does the sluggish digestion mean? Thanks
 

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I want to make sure we both have the same concept of sluggish. Hoe long does it take for his crop to empty? How long have you had him inside?
It's really important to not add more food to a crop that already has food in it. To keep things moving, I add a scant pinch of powdered garlic to the formula. When they get cold, their systems slow down which could also explain the sluggish crop.
You have the little guy on a heating pad set on low? Make a donut shape, out of a towel, with the center just big enough for him to nest in and a towel underneath him. That should help with the splayed leg. Can you post a picture? [I don't know how but I'm counting on you to hopefully be a bit more savvy than myself about such things.]
 

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Charis
His crop never gets empty. It's always half full come time for next feeding. Yes on heat pad on low. I have a round shape bedding set up for him. I had to medicate some scrathes on his wing and side from his nails. He seems to be passing food through the bowels, it's long and slimey. I did all the research on correcting legs so I feel confident on that issue, just not sure when to start that. Seems like I need to figure his eating out first. I too have a hard time w/ the computer thing. But my other half just uploaded and resized my photo. This was taken yesterday, hope it helps.
 

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If his crop still looks like that, don't feed him any more until it empties. It looks like he has way too much food in his crop.
I sent you a private message.
 

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Yes it does seem to be sluggish. And if things arn't bad enough, I think he might have splayed legs. I found him out from his mom cold and on the brink of death twice. He's in house now on heat and katee formula. What does the sluggish digestion mean? Thanks


Hi [email protected],


Oye...

Baby needs to be kept at about 103 degrees constantly...he should feel 'warm' is placed on the underaide of your wrist...as whould whatever he is on, safe from drafts.



Food needs to be fresh, made fresh each day and refrigerated or frozen, covered, between re-warms...food must NOT be warmed in a microwave, but rather, should be warmed in a little cup, in a pan of hot water...and formula needs to be fed at about this same temperature he needs to be kept at.

Formula should be liquidy-soupy, never viscous or thick.


How are you feeding him?

What are you feeding him?

How are you preparing it?


Spoiled food, thick formula, chilled Babys, chilled Babys convert food in the Crop into spoiled food...food spoiled in a slow Crop of a chilled Baby will see Yeast or Candida infections follow, create Gas which inflates the Crop...and which causes their digestive system to share infection and to cease operations...finally causing the Baby to decease if matters are not ammended soon enough.

Hand raised, non thriving Babys, where the non thriveing is not resulting from Salmonella, are usually being troubled by not being kept warm enough, and or additionally, not being fed right.


So, lets review what you are doing, and how you do it???


..."details"...


A Heating Pad on "low" is almost certainly too cold for a Baby like this..!



Phil
l v
 

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Next time you feed him, you might add some good quality digestive enzymes as well as probiotics to the formula.
 

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Heat is crucial to a baby this young.

You can purchase plain yogurt and add it to the Exact formula to help his digestion. It really works well.

Could you tell us how much and how often you are feeding this baby?

The following link has been really helpful in feeding the little ones. It is written by one of our moderators, Helen (Nooti) and contains really good information.

http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/Recipes/handfeedinghelp.htm
 

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Word of caution, that link suggests 40 mls as a feeding volume (for a squab of only 2 weeks) which might be WAY TOO MUCH so be careful - don't overdo it. I know this little guy isn't nearly that old yet, but even mine who are that age - it would be too much for them. Your little guy in the pic seems a little too full, to me.
 

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Could a Moderator Please Edit ?

Word of caution, that link suggests 40 mls as a feeding volume (for a squab of only 2 weeks) which might be WAY TOO MUCH so be careful - don't overdo it. I know this little guy isn't nearly that old yet, but even mine who are that age - it would be too much for them. Your little guy in the pic seems a little too full, to me.
You are right. Could a Moderator please clarify the link that has caused confusion. It really isn't clear.
 

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I would hope that no moderator would edit a link that has been referred to numerous times on this forum. Nooti is a highly respected rehabilitator in Great Britain as well as being one of our moderators. She has probably raised more babies than any of us except maybe Terry.

Common sense has to enter into any thing we read. If you have a baby with a "too full" crop then you don't feed it as much.

If any editing is done, Helen should be the one to do it.
 

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Hello to ll offering help. HEAT-Baby is in a glass fish tank with heat pad on low under tank. I put down a few layers of pads to prevent burning as the glass tends to get too warm. he has a teddy bear wrapped with a blanket. Bear acks as a mother he can snuggle up underneath it but cant get stuck. No drafts are present, all my doors and windows are closed and I heat my house in the low 70's. FOOD-I do heat the food in water, it is on the runny side. I start fresh every feeding neer save unused food. The time it takes to make old food up to temp it seems easier to just make new. I use the syring with a sawed off top method to feed him. I will try the yougrt tonight, guessing you heat that the same way as water. He eats about 8am 4pm and 10ish pm. I've been filling his little crop up, I make him stop eating and wiggle his head straight up to release the air the give him more. I have two boys (human kids) and the same skills from them carry over to animals such as no microwave, check the temp in the bend of the elbow. Charis one of your fellow members is sweet enough to have set time aside today to talk to me and help my get little bird up and running. You all are such a awsome buch of peeps!! Off to feed little guy I hear him in there just a peepin. Thanks
 

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My Silly Billy Squeaker's crop didn't empty, I had to bleed it but I also resorted to warm water with just a pinch of bicarbonate of soda in it...I think that is what is called baking soda in the US.

The Kaytee packet attributes slow crop to ambient temperature, are his surroundings warm enough? It also recommends stewed apple and gently massaging the crop but never when it is more than half full. Letting the crop rest on something warm could help.

The baby's failure to grow is a bit worrying, it isn't because he hasn't been fed enough, it could be due to absorption difficulties or to disease : paratyphoid, perhaps canker too? He is far too young for Baytril to be taken without a danger of it affecting bone growth, but Clavamox is an alternative that could be used.

Could a Moderator please edit the link that has caused confusion. It really isn't clear.
The best we could do is put a warning on my post that has the link in it, moderators don't have the power to edit the page it leads to.

I think that the reference to feeding 40 mls at two weeks is a typo, because Helen told me she fed that amount when they are 28 days old.

Cynthia
 

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I would hope that no moderator would edit a link that has been referred to numerous times on this forum. Nooti is a highly respected rehabilitator in Great Britain as well as being one of our moderators. She has probably raised more babies than any of us except maybe Terry.

Common sense has to enter into any thing we read. If you have a baby with a "too full" crop then you don't feed it as much.

If any editing is done, Helen should be the one to do it.
I agree and I don't want to cause trouble or be direspectful but it is causing confusion. Some folks that have very small birds have misunderstood the instructions and think they should be feeding little babies 40cc. IN the last few months, this has happened more times than I can count. Doing so could be deadly. I will edit my post to say clarify. I think that is a better word for my request.
People that have rescued a baby pigeon or don't have much experience with them, often don't have a clue about what the crop is or what too full means.
 

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Nooti is a highly respected rehabilitator in Great Britain as well as being one of our moderators. She has probably raised more babies than any of us except maybe Terry.
This is true, but like the rest of us she can make typos! :) Unfortunately the notebook in which I recorded Helen's advice when I first met her starts with a note that says "4 days old 5mls - a full crop is about half the body mass" and then "at 30 days old 40 mls twice a day will get him by but ideally 40 mls 3 times a day to gain weight."

Cynthia
 

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I think that the reference to feeding 40 mls at two weeks is a typo, because Helen told me she fed that amount when they are 28 days old.

Cynthia
That makes lots more sense!

I just thought it wise to point this out, because someone is looking for help that has never fed a baby before and might take literal instructions, well, literally...beginners can't employ common sense to a siuation if they lack the experience to judge. No one meant any slight to Nooti or her knowlege. It may be a typo, or maybe she really does give them that much at 2 weeks...but I thought it worth cautioning the thread originator to not overdo it.

And to Jollie - I would not feed a baby that had that much food in him already. But, I would defer to those here with more experience than mine to say for sure
 

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There is no one on the forum who is a greater advocate of small feedings at frequent intervals for newborns than I am. I agree that to a novice this information could be confusing and I will no longer link that information until Helen can offer some clarification.

Jolley, your heat sounds fine. We mix formula using very hot water from the tap and right before feeding, mix in about 1/4 tsp of yogurt to that. Stir all very well so there are no hot spots.

His crop looks to me to be emptying pretty good now. To be on the safe side, wait a couple more hours and then feed him about 10 cc. every 3 hours, of course, dependent on whether the crop has emptied since the last feeding.

He is really cute.
 

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Yeah he is kinda cute huh. He's grown on me:) I have to go to work in 30 minutes but I'll go ahead and give him a snack if you think he is empty enough. maybe it will be more empty when I get home at 3:30. Thanks
 
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