Pigeon-Talk banner
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just thought I would pass it along that there is a Ludo 09 YB for sale on ipigeon.com. Here is a pic and its pedigree. I purchased a YB from this loft about 3 weeks ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,455 Posts
Well, ya'll are more than welcome to buy it and send it here, LOL :p
Pretty bird, and I see some nice things in the pedigree too :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
343 Posts
Beautiful bird!

The bird has a Fernando Valley Club band, I am joining that club when I start racing. Salvador lives a few miles away from me, hehe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Becky, if you wouldn't mind, would you share with an old man what you see in the Ludo youngster that looks good. I am not familiar with them, and I seem to be getting senile, so your youth, and superior intelligent knowledge would be greatly appreciated, Don.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just so happens that a rifle scope will sell tomorrow on Ebay, and a target 22 will sell in two days on Gunbroker. Man, getting this extra cash sure makes shopping for birds like Xmas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,455 Posts
I hate it when people ask me what exactly looks good or what I look for, haha :p I think my brain has just decided to automatically look over a bird and decide if it's appealing or not, and not let me in on what it's look at that looks so good. I guess it's good that nothing sticks out that tells me "Yuck".
It'd be nice if I could see the bird in person to get an idea of how it may normally look/stand without a camera in its face. And be able to hold it to see how it feels. But it does look like it'd be a pretty stout and solid little bird, especially once it gets older. Looks clean and healthy too, which is nice. I like the shape of it, but then again maybe the fact that it's scrunched up may trick the eyes.

The 1st places against more birds than I've seen at one time, makes it look better too, haha :p
 
G

·
Becky, if you wouldn't mind, would you share with an old man what you see in the Ludo youngster that looks good. I am not familiar with them, and I seem to be getting senile, so your youth, and superior intelligent knowledge would be greatly appreciated, Don.
i personally dont find this bird particularly impressive but you also have to realise that its hard to judge a bird on looks alone when they are that young too ...so you are pretty much just taking a chance on how its gonna look and perform once they do mature .. its hard to judge without any race results behind the bird and even with them its not like this bird is going to follow in the footsteps of its parentage as a garentee and a name alone isnt going to carry any weight in the end now is it but sometimes it does help :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,138 Posts
Nobody in the world can look at a pigeon and tell if it is worth a gain of salt, but I do like a beautiful pigeon it just don't squat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,367 Posts
Just thought I would pass it along that there is a Ludo 09 YB for sale on ipigeon.com. Here is a pic and its pedigree. I purchased a YB from this loft about 3 weeks ago.
I always seem to get in trouble when I comment on any bird advertised as a "Ludo"....and shown here inviting comments. Last time I put my two cents in, I received "hate mail" from the guy selling the bird.

My only observation is that the pedigree is not from Ludo Claessen. The parents were not bred by Ludo Claessen. A number of birds in the pedigree did not come from the loft of Ludo Claessen.

It is impossible to tell from this picture, at this immature age, what kind of a racer this bird might turn out to be. If I were to buy it, I would loft fly it, then give him some road work, and then I would race it. If he performed well, I might then breed from him depending on how he looked and felt in my hand. Perhaps then I would, if his performance was real good, breed him to a hen from Ludo Claessen. But, any offspring from such a pairing, I personally would not call them a "Ludo". But, those who know me, know that I am somewhat funny that way.....:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you Warren. I knew if anyone did know about this bird, you would. I appreciate your expertise as always, Don.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,852 Posts
It is hard to make out, but if I read it right. Here is what it says for this bird.

"7546 VELVET. Sire is from DFL Loft Direct Son of "Blue Ranger" Ludo Claessens. Dam is Pure Ludo out "Robin Hood"."
Is this deceptive advertising or is it a matter of deffinition? "They" say that a person with 10 percent African American blood is considered an African American. I know that rules for being allowed to state that beef you are selling is "Black Angus" means that it is at least 50% Black Angus.

So, is this just stating that the bird has a lot, or a portion, of Ludo Claessens lines? Or is it stating that the bird is ALL Ludo?

Here is what the ipigeon ad states:

"Description: 09-VFC-7546 Velvet. 7546 is medium in size with nice body strong back well balance out "Robin Hood" Line see Pedigree. sire 02-DFL-143 Direct son of "Blue Ringer"pure Ludo Cleassens Dam 00-FHC-405 Champion bird 2000 series as young bird 1st place 200 miles 635 birds 5 th 300 miles 385 birds plus more top positions."

I read it that the bird for sale is about half Ludo, although the pedirgee itself seems to indicate more Ludo than that.

I'd like some Ludo blood, but not this one I think. Seems to be a nice bird though. Good looking for a young bird and the pedigree is nothing to sneeze at. I think well worth the 70 bucks starting price in the auction, for someone looking for Ludo blood that can not afford what they usually go for, if straight Ludo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
I don't know, I will probably get in trouble here but what else is new!

If it were me...and it's not...I would not consider a bird to be a Ludo bird unless that bird were raised, raced or bred by Ludo himself. My birds have more "Ludo" names in their pedigree than this bird and I would never consider claiming to have Ludo birds...they have not earned that right and to claim it, I feel, is a slap in the face to Ludo himsellf.

In my mind, the only thing you can truely claim is the direct source the bird comes from. To me, anything else is almost like genetic plagiarism. I know, that's just me and I know these types of claims go on all the time. To me though it just doesn't sound right.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
I don't own any of those birds, but I don't see it any different to say that my bird is Janssen or a Sion. One would assume they are not direct stock, unless so stated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
I don't own any of those birds, but I don't see it any different to say that my bird is Janssen or a Sion. One would assume they are not direct stock, unless so stated.
That is my point exactly. It is no different, and I have a problem with people talking about their Jannsens or Sions too, or any other fancier for that matter. In my mind they have not earned the right to call themselves by that family.

The birds I raise now are 9 Points birds. They are not Ludos or Smiths at this poiint, they are 9 Points good or bad. All I can claim is that there are family links to these other fanciers. I look at it this way. I wouldn't want sombody advertising "9 Points" birds for sale. Why would Ludo Claessens or Warren Smith want me selling "Ludos" or "Smiths". I haven't earned that right.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,852 Posts
You have a point, however. It is accepted that if I purchased a bird from Ludo himself, and it is from his lines. Then I own a Ludo bird. It is not a Thomas bird. Go to the PIPA auction site, or other sites, and the birds may be designated as Ludo's, even though they are not currently owned by Ludo himself. It is common and accepted in the sport to describe the bird/s as such.

If I purchase a bird from Joe Blow, and Joe Blow obtained the parents from Ludo, bred them and then sold me a youngster from them, it is accepted that they are Ludo Line birds. Not Joe Blow birds.

I can not address the respect to Ludo aspect. Respect is an intangible thing IMO. However, the internet is full of people advertising birds that are "Ludo's", and it is accepted and understood what that means.

Take this example. If Joe Blow sold a bird last month to Ludo and then Ludo decided that it didn't fit into his plans (for whatever reason), and Ludo sold it to me. Is it a Ludo bird?

No, IMHO. But in your way of looking at things, it would be. If I understood you correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,852 Posts
I'm just being contrary. All in fun and frolic. I mean no disrespect to your statements or opinions.

Heck. I'm wrong more often than I am right, for sure. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
You have a point, however. It is accepted that if I purchased a bird from Ludo himself, and it is from his lines. Then I own a Ludo bird. It is not a Thomas bird. Go to the PIPA auction site, or other sites, and the birds may be designated as Ludo's, even though they are not currently owned by Ludo himself. It is common and accepted in the sport to describe the bird/s as such.

If I purchase a bird from Joe Blow, and Joe Blow obtained the parents from Ludo, bred them and then sold me a youngster from them, it is accepted that they are Ludo Line birds. Not Joe Blow birds.

I can not address the respect to Ludo aspect. Respect is an intangible thing IMO. However, the internet is full of people advertising birds that are "Ludo's", and it is accepted and understood what that means.

Take this example. If Joe Blow sold a bird last month to Ludo and then Ludo decided that it didn't fit into his plans (for whatever reason), and Ludo sold it to me. Is it a Ludo bird?

No, IMHO. But in your way of looking at things, it would be. If I understood you correctly.
Not exactly...

I said that I don't believe a bird that wasn't bred by, trained by or raced by Ludo was a Ludo... in my opinion. In the case you cited, I would not consider that bird a Ludo. In my eyes that is a Joe Blow.

Also, I am very clear in the understanding that these practices are very common in our sport and happen all the time. I just don't believe them to be accurate or entirely truthful. Just my opinion of course.

One last thing, I think we use Ludo as an example too often because he is the latest hot topic. This should be applied to any other fancier's work, whether it be Jannsen, Sion, Mordvedt, etc., etc.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
I'm just being contrary. All in fun and frolic. I mean no disrespect to your statements or opinions.

Heck. I'm wrong more often than I am right, for sure. :)
Absolutly none taken!! :D

Believe me, at this point you will find a whole lot more people on this forum that are far more advanced than me when it comes to pigeon handling...I am just trying to learn as fast as possible. I try to make it clear that I am just stating an opinion and that in no way do I believe it is the most popular or even accurate view...just an opinion! :p

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,852 Posts
"One last thing, I think we use Ludo as an example too often because he is the latest hot topic. This should be applied to any other fancier's work, whether it be Jannsen, Sion, Mordvedt, etc., etc."

Of course I agree with that statement.

I made my initial statement because there are some well respected participants to this forum, that advertise that they have "Ludo's" and sell birds from them, as "Ludo's or Ludo Lines".

That was my whole point.

We can agree to disagree I guess. I believe that if I purchased two birds from Ludo, and they are of his established lines. Then I breed and sell the youngsters from said pair. In my ad and in my judgement, they are Ludo's.

Otherwise, all of those Janssens all over the place, are Joe Blows (which to your point, is probably more correct than incorrect), but it is not the accepted norm in the sport.

How could Mike Smith (fictitious name) sell any birds that he acquired the parents of at great expense from the great Belgium flyers, to anyone. If he said they were "Smith Lines"?

Right or wrong. That is the way it is and I do not know how it could be otherwise, and work well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,210 Posts
IMO any bird bred by someone other than the Master breeder they came from is no longer that Master breeders birds. Be it Ludo, Janssen, Houben or ......
These men are or were Master breeders and masters of the sport. Once their birds are bred by another, they become that new breeders birds. They are still from the Ludo, Janssen or Houben line but they are no longer bred in the same way the Master breeder would have bred them. It was his stock sence that led him and his breeding program. You can buy his birds but you can't buy his stock sence and that is what made his birds what they are.

Everyone will tell you they have Janssens in their loft. In reality they have birds bred down from the Janssen line, not Janssens.

IMO, If you buy a bird from Ludo (that was berd by him) it is a Ludo. If you buy a bird that was bred by another flyer it is from that flyers loft and is not a Ludo but from the Ludo line.

Ace
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top