[birdbum]

I had to take one of my hens to the emergency vet a month and a half ago because she had some intense swelling in her abdomen. The vet determined that her hormones are overly active, causing fatty tissue to build up and squeeze her digestive tract and organs. They recommended she get an injection of Lupron every few months to maintain her hormones, kind of like bird birth control. Anyone ever have any experience with this? It's extremely expensive and if there's another way to help her other than euthanasia please help!

 

[mercedes15]

Hello,

Change your bird's environment around (inside and outside the cage) to discourage nesting behavior. Remove boxes and toys from your bird's cage that may be the focus of obsession. Control your bird's diet to limit high calorie and high fat foods that trigger hormone production.

I would not give this Lupron injections.

 

[birdbum]

Hello,

Change your bird's environment around (inside and outside the cage) to discourage nesting behavior. Remove boxes and toys from your bird's cage that may be the focus of obsession. Control your bird's diet to limit high calorie and high fat foods that trigger hormone production.

I would not give this Lupron injections.

I have read some pretty bad things about it. I feed a 15% protein maintenance diet from Jones “Go-Get-Um” but will look further into maybe feeding something else. I also provide red grit. She’s separated from other birds and doesn’t have anything to play with, etc. I read a blog that said you can blast a bird with bright light for 72 hours to reset their internal clock and it would help so I’m going to look into doing that. I feel really bad for her.

 

[Colombina]

Hi, my pigeon Aurora is not in an identical situation but could have an hormones issue too.

Last September I noticed that she looked a bit strange and I twice saw her breathing - for only a few seconds - with open beak. I checked her carefully and I discovered that she had fluid into her abdomen.

I immediately brought her to my vets.
The first vet suspected liver cancer or hepatitis.
The second vet took an x-ray: it did not show anything wrong (no
tumor, no eggs, no enlarged liver, etc). She suspected a peritonitis related to her bad reproductive organ system (Aurora is only nearly 6 years old but she stopped eggs laying really early: in 2018 or 2019).

To this day, I administered three antibiotic courses (plus anti-inflammatory), she got drained more than once...

Apparently she looks fine: eats with appetite, walks and flies around home, pecks at my hands, coos, etc. Poops look good.

That said, I suspect that she could have a hormones issues because I noticed that apparently fluid increases when she is not sitting on her fake eggs (this is why I let her incubate her fake eggs). But it's just a guess. The big problem is that I do not know what is causing the fluid (except for x-ray both my vets do not do tests... And I haven't found other vets who treat pigeons). So I thought that we could exchange all info and share our experiences.

How did your vet determine that her hormones are overly active? Did he do a test? If yes, what test?

Unfortunately I have never found a way to stop eggs laying (or to fight the urge of mating like in Aurora's case).

I had a pigeon, Londo, who had a cloacal prolapse. When she had it the first time (2019) the lady vet made an injection for hormones so she didn't lay eggs for about three months. She didn't specify if it was a lupron injection so I can't confirm you that. She told me that it was an injection for calming down hormones. As I wrote she didn't lay eggs for about three months but then, even if she was alone in a cage (without boxes, etc), she laid them twice (January 2020). At least one of the eggs (I can't remember all details) was without shell. I don't know if there is a correlation with the injection (unfortunately she laid another shell less egg in 2022 and we lost her) but now I wonder that...
You said that you read some pretty bad things about injections. Could you please share the links?

I'm considering if trying injections or an implant. I will ask for a second opinion to my other vet (I will share with you her reply). The first vet said that we could try an implant but added that he never did that in a pigeon in a similar condition to the one of Aurora (so we can't know if there could be side effects or something else).
I have several concerns.
As first thing I don't know what is the cause of liquid (I wonder if she has even liver issues. In all cases she's getting from September two different liver supplement). On February 8th the vet did another x-ray because he wanted to see if there is any ovarian cyst but he was not able to see anything because there was too much liquid.
Then I fear to break the "equilibrium" in which Aurora is living. You know, I wonder "There could be side effects? Could I make the situation worse?". Apparently she looks fine, she's very active and dynamic (last time she got drained she had too much fluid and so sometimes looked breathless, heavy in flying and had low wings). But I know that the situation is serious and could kill her in a long term (in all cases the vet ruled out surgery because it is too risky and dangerous).
I also fear cancer.
The fluid is also becoming thick and so last time the vet was not able to drain all of it. I know that this is not a good sign.

Does your bird have fluid too? Or only fat? Here I read about different causes of abdominal distension and they mention even fat:

ABDOMINAL DISTENSION IN BIRDS |

www.melbournebirdvet.com

I'm going to share some of the links that I read in these months. I hope that you could find helpful info:

Reproductive Diseases of Pet Birds - Exotic and Laboratory Animals - MSD Veterinary Manual

Learn about the veterinary topic of Reproductive Diseases of Pet Birds. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the MSD Vet Manual.

www.msdvetmanual.com

Avian Reproductive Disease: Medical and Surgical Management - AAZV 2014 - VIN

www.vin.com

Ovarian Neoplasia in Birds - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

Ovarian neoplasia can be defined as an abnormal growth of tissue. Tumors can be either benign (non-cancerous) or malignant (cancerous). The term ovarian refers to a part of the reproductive system of the bird in question.

wagwalking.com

Have you asked to the vet if your vet could have liver issues too? If you have a translator I attach a few links in italian language:

https://petfamily.it/uccelli/salute-uccelli/le-malattie-del-fegato-grasso/

Il gonfiore addominale nei pappagallini

www.cocoriti.com

You could try to regularly add a liver protector to his drinking water and see if you see any benefits. I use this one:

9.35? - Ocecholine VIRBAC - Véto Products

Sorry for the very long post.

 

[birdbum]

Hi, my pigeon Aurora is not in an identical situation but could have an hormones issue too.

Last September I noticed that she looked a bit strange and I twice saw her breathing - for only a few seconds - with open beak. I checked her carefully and I discovered that she had fluid into her abdomen.

I immediately brought her to my vets....

WOW! Thank you so much for sharing your story with Aurora and the links you've found. I'll be honest that I haven't had much time to do too much looking into alternate ways to manage hormones other than the brief time I was at the emergency vet. I'll share the blog posts and other chat rooms / articles I've found about it below. Snow is probably around 6 years old as well. I have birds older than her that have never had an issue so I have no idea what caused it.

The E-vet did a sonogram, we also got multiple xrays, and a blood test. They found no fluid and that there was only fatty tissue. She is healthy otherwise. As I was reading your response, I realized that I never got the blood test results back from the E-vet so I just sent a follow up email requesting them.

I was told that there aren't very many studies using lupron in pigeons but what studies have been done show positive effect. The thing in my situation is that I have never seen my bird Snow lay eggs. She hasn't laid an egg in the time that I've had her separated from the flock and that was at the beginning of January, so about 2 months and I have not seen any eggs. Snow has no interest in flying and no interest in bathing, but LOTS of interest in eating and drinking so it seems our specific situations are different, but possibly similar. My new avian vet suggested that I change her diet and remove fatty seed. I don't actually really know what that looks like but I plan to look further into getting a leaner diet for her.

lupron – Pamela Clark, CPBC

Why Are Veterinarians Are Injecting This Poison Into Our Birds? << this is the post I found about lupron being really bad, and it also talks about exposing your bird to 72 hours of direct light at a certain frequency to restart their circadium rhythm. I want to look more into how to do this and what this looks like.

The article from the Melbourne Bird vet was so helpful and I reached out to them via email. I'm hoping they can help me with some answers. I hope that you're able to find the help your bird needs as well. Please definitely post your progress here.

 

[Colombina]

Thanks so much for sharing the links. I'm going to read them carefully.

Of course, I will share all updates and new info here. Please do the same. I hope too that you are able to give to Snow all the best help.

 

[Colombina]

An update. I contacted my other vet asking for an opinion about implant (deslorelin) or injections.
She said that from the studies that she read and from her own personal experience implant has a bad/poor return.
She also added something about the fact that molecules used as antagonist to female hormones are no longer available.

She suggested that we could maybe try contraceptive seeds (which are usually available in agricultural supply stores) but I remember that times ago I read somewhere that they could cause cancer...

Btw, you said that your new vet suggested to change the diet. Have you discovered what would be the proper diet? All my pigeons eat a large mixture of pigeon/dove seeds (different brands) with added dried legumes (mung beans, small lentils, etc) and canary mixture. Aurora is crazy for the canary mixture containing dehydrated fruits. That's her favorite food. All my pigeons don't eat pellet. They regularly get vitamins, they have available picking blocks, etc.


The Melbourne Bird vet gave you a reply?

This morning I checked Aurora's abdomen and she has again a lot of fluid.
I feel very bad because I can't find a real way to help her. I love her so much but it seems that there is no way to save her... Both my vet's didn't give me any hope. My heart breaks.

 

[birdbum]

Hello! Sorry I did not get an email that you had responded.

The vet didn't give me any suggestions on how to remove fatty seed and to be honest I've been super busy so haven't had a chance to look further into it.

I did not hear back from the Melbourne vet.

I just got an email follow up from the emergency vet finally. They said that the bloodwork showed some early signs of anemia and some mild inflammation. They said nothing was worrisome and asked how she was doing. I'm responding now and will ask about resetting the circadian rhythm and a diet to remove fatty seeds. I'll post again once I hear something.

Have you had a chance to look into resetting the circadian rhythm?

An update. I contacted my other vet asking for an opinion about implant (deslorelin) or injections.
She said that from the studies that she read and from her own personal experience implant has a bad/poor return.
She also added something about the fact that molecules used as antagonist to female hormones are no longer available.

She suggested that we could maybe try contraceptive seeds (which are usually available in agricultural supply stores) but I remember that times ago I read somewhere that they could cause cancer...

Btw, you said that your new vet suggested to change the diet. Have you discovered what would be the proper diet? All my pigeons eat a large mixture of pigeon/dove seeds (different brands) with added dried legumes (mung beans, small lentils, etc) and canary mixture. Aurora is crazy for the canary mixture containing dehydrated fruits. That's her favorite food. All my pigeons don't eat pellet. They regularly get vitamins, they have available picking blocks, etc.


The Melbourne Bird vet gave you a reply?

This morning I checked Aurora's abdomen and she has again a lot of fluid.
I feel very bad because I can't find a real way to help her. I love her so much but it seems that there is no way to save her... Both my vet's didn't give me any hope. My heart breaks.

 

[birdbum]

I received an email response from the Emergency Vet. They sent some attachments that I will try to attach to this message as PDFs.
This is what they suggested:

I'm sorry to hear that Snow has not improved too much since we last saw her. We would be happy to see her for a recheck appointment to re-evaluate her. At that time, we would also be able to take a look at her stools and discuss performing a fecal gram stain to check for any bacterial overgrowth in her GI tract that may be causing her abnormal droppings.

In terms of daylength and hormonal influence, many bird species are hormonal and lay eggs when day-lengths are long (i.e. in the spring and summer). We actually recommend decreasing her exposure to light (natural or artificial) to no more than 12 hours a day to reduce hormonal behavior. If any light is available during the dark period, this will not work. A walk-in closet or guest-bathroom may work best for providing complete darkness for this length of time. You can accomplish this as well by covering her cage with a cover if the room she is in does not get dark. We also recommend removing any perceived mates and nests, as well as decreasing the amount of food offered overall and offer high calorie items only sparingly.

In terms of her diet, Mazuri has several good quality pelleted pigeon diets that are available for purchase. Based on her previous ultrasound and her high fat profile levels on her chemistry panel, we were concerned that Snow had depositions of fat within her belly, surrounding her organs and leading to the distension we are seeing. We can consider adding L-carnitine to Snow's diet as well to help with her fat metabolism to try to lower the concentration of lipids (or fats) in her blood. L-carnitine is a powdered supplement that can be purchased at any health food store or online. We would recommend sprinkling ½ to 1 teaspoon of the powder on her food once daily. Conversely, it can be sprayed and baked onto her food. I have added handouts regarding pigeon nutrition and carnitine supplementation to this email as well.

An update. I contacted my other vet asking for an opinion about implant (deslorelin) or injections....

 

[Colombina]

Hi! Please forgive me too for the late reply but since some days here there are internet connection issues.

Thanks so much for sharing all the info and material given by your vet.

On Wednesday 8th I brought Aurora to my vet for drainage because she was full of liquid (after stopping to sit on her eggs) and so had shortness of breath (more than the previous times). The liquid is becoming always more thicker so according to the vet it is always more complicated to remove it.
When I brought her back home I removed her husband (I put him in another room). I got surprised because Aurora started to behave like a "crazy". She looked for others males because she wanted to mate with no matter who... I had to isolate her. Surely she is very hormonal. The following day I put her husband back and on Saturday 11th she has started to sit on her fake eggs (as I explained earlier she stopped eggs laying years ago...).
She usually sits on them for 21 days and during this time she looks perfectly fine and very very active and dynamic. If you would see her without knowing that she has something wrong you would think that she is healthy...
This is why I let her incubate her eggs...I know that it is recommended (even by your vet) to remove mate and nest but in this particular case allowing her to sit on her eggs seems the best thing to do.. Also apparently fluid increases more when she is not sitting on the eggs.
But the truth is that in all honesty I don't know what to do.

I have started to do some research on resetting the circadian rhythm but I have to look for more info:

This Is Your Bird on Eggs. Can Chronic Egg Layers Anonymous Help?

So Popcorn our cockatiel, (pictured above) has become a prolific mom and if we put our hand within 12 inches of her in her cage, my arm will be ripped off by the doting mother sitting on 2 nonfertile…

windycityparrot.com

I am going to try to decrease her exposure to light to no more than 12 hours a day as suggested even by your vet (usually she spends about 10/11 hours without lights).

My vet has always ruled surgery out but last time he told me that as last resort we could try it (in case her condition gets worse). I read that removing oviduct is extremely risky and that it could not stop hormones production. Also pigeons could potentially ovulate too (which could be very dangerous if the egg yolk doesn't get absorbed in the abdomen). I will do more research on this and maybe start a thread. Has your own vet even talked about this kind of surgery?

Btw here you can read the story of Banano, a very hormonal pigeon:

In the Friend Zone: Life after Oviductectomy -

Guest Post & Photos by Zoe Martell As the bird health care coordinator for Palomacy, I often receive calls for help when something is awry with one of the many rescues in our volunteer network; this is how I first … Continue reading →

www.pigeonrescue.org

I also did some research on contraceptive seeds but this is a very useless option because they simply sterilize eggs......

Some of the mixtures that I am used to buy contain even pellets but all my birds ignore them (I am used to bring to city birds the leftover of my pigeons and I noticed that they are used to eat pellets only after eating seeds... Probably they eat it only because they live in the street and don't have great options..). When I have to give pain med to Aurora I'm used to put a drop of it on a pellet... Well, she really hates it. I don't know if it would be possible to convince her to eat pellets (btw, her appetite is very good and her poops are perfect too)..

Have you asked to your vet if a liver supplement could be helpful for Snow? The one that I use is rich in choline which helps to limit fat infiltrations in the liver.

Sorry for the very long post but I wanted to share all the info in case others members will have to deal with a similar situation.

 

[Colombina]

Update: I have started to reduce the amount of daylight (on the night between Tuesday and Wednesday) but I noticed that Aurora started to look strange. I mean passive and depressed (and I got very worried and scared as you can imagine). I noticed that even Flavio (her husband) looked strange. So I thought that probably this is not the right moment for reducing daylight because they are sitting on their fake eggs. Probably they felt worried for babies. So I decided to come back to the normal routine and to postpone the reduction of daylight. I suggest to everyone to not reduce daylight while birds are sitting on eggs. Today Aurora looks more active.

I found this very interesting article:

Your Overly Reproductive Female Bird

by Susan Horton, DVM

www.exoticpetvet.com

It mentions even excessive abdominal fat:

"Excessive abdominal fat has also been associated with many cases of salpingitis. The infectious agent most often isolated from birds with salpingitis is E. coli. Other infectious agents include Mycoplasma gallisepticum, Salmonella spp., Streptococcus spp. and Pasteurella multocida. These bacteria are often affecting other organ systems simultaneously".

Give it a look.